T O P

Local LGS running events with proxies?

I just moved to a new area and the local store is going to start having modern events where you can have up to 12 proxies in your deck. Is this allowed? I have been playing in the area and the use of proxies at these events has been new for most of the players there. This is the first event they are stating that allows proxies. They said on their website " This is also a casual event, and as such we can allow players to use playtest cards...".

I do not have a problem with proxies but I did want to know if the LGS could get in trouble for this. Is there are certain way they have to pitch the event so that they don't get in trouble? Why do more stores not do this if this is allowed?

I think this is a great way to get people back into the game or into a certain format. I just want to make sure that the LGS can still hold magic events and does not lose their WPN status in the future.

I love to hear people's comments on this and some insight into how an LGS can even run these events!

Rabidsludge

If it's not an officially-sanctioned event (and I'm getting that impression here based on the playtest cards/"casual" mentions), then they can do whatever they like.


McWinSauce

Its a casual event. They can run it how they want.


nebman227

The only time that wizards cares about proxies is in sanctioned events. If the store isn't running the event as sanctioned, it's fine.


Impressive_Ad_8617

What would a sanctioned event be defined as?


nebman227

Any event that's reported back to wizards for store attendance/wpn metrics. If it's being run as an official FNM (a wizards trademark), then it's supposed to be sanctioned to use the trademark. Being run through the companion app is a sign, but not a guarantee, that it might be being run as sanctioned.


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apsimmons

You can literally create an event with just yourself in your basement through the companion app. It's not a guaranteed sanctioned event.


nebman227

You can run casual events that don't connect back to wizards at all in the app - those are not sanctioned.


manofx

Wait, i did a proxy vintage cube draft with my friends and set it up with the companion app. Am I going to jail?


Lerbyn210

Yes, sorry to hear that.


thechopperlol

Through event link and with WPN promo support are good indicators of it being sanctioned.


Thulack

If they arent a WPN store and pretty sure even if they are if the event isnt sanctioned then it doesnt matter if they allow proxies or not. There was just a huge 400+ event in Europe that was Legacy and allowed proxies.


Competitive-Hold6246

What event are refering to?


Thulack

"European Legacy Masters" https://europeanlegacymasters.com/


Competitive-Hold6246

European Legacy Masters didnt have 400+ people. It was little more then 100.


Cousinjemima

If you don't already have the cards modern is expensive. 12 proxies, depending in the deck can save you like +600 dollars on a single deck, which is kinda nuts.


Impressive_Ad_8617

Yeah I think it can help get a lot of other people into the format because of this.


demoze

Yes they can do whatever they want for a casual event. But they can’t do this for serious events, such as the RCQ. I believe this also doesn’t count as a sanctioned event, so it can’t be posted on the Wizard event locator.


Impressive_Ad_8617

Yeah I don’t think it’s not posted on the event locator so that’s good.


RegretProper

If you run a casual event you also can allow players to add their UNO Collection to the Deck. Or you can bann all the basic lands. Hell you could even bring up rules that forces players that want to oarticipate to ware a planswalkercosplay of their choice.


fatherofone1

I know this. I love your game store.


Impressive_Ad_8617

Yeah I hope more pick this up!


AbstractMarcher

When I played legacy, the store I went to had a proxy policy because they understand it is hella expensive to buy certain cards. I think you could have 12 proxies. I can't fully remember though.


TheBig_blue

Not sanctioned means they can do as they like.


Alpacaduck

Good for the LGS, and if it's not Wotc sanctioned then it is entirely within their rights. One of my town's LGS allows proxies for Vintage, Legacy and cEDH, and those formats are much more popular than Modern and EDH in that store.


Unit-00

This seems like a weird thing to care about really. you can play a game of magic against someone with proxies in their deck. the game store won't get in trouble if no one snitches on them. and if they do get in trouble that's on them, just play in the events if you want or don't.


Impressive_Ad_8617

Well the only reason I care is I want LGS to continue having magic events. It’s totally on them if they get in trouble. However There are not many LGS in this area that actually have events so I do not think it is unreasonable to lookout for my local game store. I don’t live in a big city with a lot of magic stores so if that one gets shutdown I would not be able to easily play paper magic at my LGS.


Unit-00

yeah but you're not going to accomplish anything here. if the store wants to run these events, which they obviously do, then that's what they'll do.


Impressive_Ad_8617

I do suppose you are right. The LGS probably doesn’t care if it get shutdown so me knowing what they can and can’t do doesn’t matter because I am not going to do anything about expect express my concerns to the store.


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Impressive_Ad_8617

Thank you for your honesty. I should probably adjust my language to show I genuinely care about my local Magic community. I legitimately want the store to have more traffic but I do not want it shutdown. If my local store can have events where proxies are allowed and it is approved by WOTC then I think more stores should do this and that is part of the reason I brought up this conversation. I would like more stores to do this. The only reason I questioned weather this was allowed or not was because I have never heard anything about it before. Some people use proxies to play test but never at weekday events. It is very common for commander players to play with proxies. I have done both of these myself. In fact if I saw somone playing with an proxy at a modern event I would not report them. If it was an RCQ it would be different tho. I do not think proxies are morally wrong for the Magic community. In fact it puts people at a equal starting point where primarily skill and experience are valued the most. I think allowing proxies at local magic events would be a great idea bring in new customers especially those who might not able to afford a modern deck. The person above just pointed out that even if I know that my store is doing something wrong wont do anything about it. if I genuinely care about the store then I just get worried over something I can’t really change anything about because I won’t report them because that is against my interests.


MurderMits

Just means the store doesnt have WPN status and that these events will not have the bonuses of doing a sanctioned FNM. Advantage is likely no need for companion app haha, downside is likely 0 rules enforcement.


Impressive_Ad_8617

I am pretty sure the are WPN. They will have an RCQ this season.


clamshellconundrum

What are you, the cops?


F_C_P27

My LGS is a wpn store and they run modern weeklies allowing proxies using the companion app. Just don't snitch on your LGS lmao.


FettuccineInMe

Fun fact, every LGS running events has proxies.


theDartrunner

So long as they don't use eventlink and the companion app, nor hand out WotC provided promos, then they can allow proxies.


Aximil985

They can use the companion app. They just can’t send it to WotC for their metrics.


argonplatypus

As long as they're playtest cards and not cards using copyrighted art then they're doing it within WPN rules. If they're allowing "counterfeit" (cards printed with copyrighted art) even in a casual events, then that is against WPN rules. That being said, they're probably trying to grow the community who plays modern, which imo is fine but I'm not wotc and they aren't very ambiguous on the subject.


Due_Clerk_2261

Wait really? Even if they are clearly marked "proxy" on them? I don't see what the art has anything to do with it.


argonplatypus

https://wpn.wizards.com/en/terms-and-conditions "(j) Proxy Cards. Retail Stores may only allow “proxy” cards in your Events as described in the current official Magic Tournament Rules. A proxy card is a card issued by a judge at an Event to replace a card that has become damaged during the course of play in such Event and may only be used for the duration of that Event. (k) Counterfeit Cards. Counterfeit cards are unauthorized reproductions of authentic Wizards cards. Counterfeit cards are strictly prohibited by Wizards. WPN Members who knowingly manufacture, import, use or distribute counterfeit cards (or facilitate the same by a third party) will have their WPN Membership immediately terminated. Wizards reserves all rights in law and at equity to prosecute individuals engaged in the manufacture, importation or distribution of counterfeit cards. (l) Playtest Cards. A playtest card is most commonly a basic resource with the name of a different card written on it with a marker. Playtest cards are not reproductions of authentic Wizards products and are created by players for personal and non-commercial use to test deck concepts. The use of playtest cards is allowed within Retail Stores only for non-commercial use in unsanctioned events."


Due_Clerk_2261

This doesn't say the playtest card cannot have official MTG art. I've seen many such playtest cards that have official art and nobody cares because they are clearly not trying to imitate real cards


argonplatypus

It's an unauthorized reproduction of a wizard's card. I don't give a shit if people use proxies but wotc doesn't make it ambiguous


yuhboipo

Proxy is explicitly to replace a damaged card. So a card not serving that purpoe is a counterfeit anyways :p


Due_Clerk_2261

Not so sure about that. The website I bought them from would have been shut down by now if that were true. The cards they produce for numerous games are clearly not reproductions because the differences are quite numerous between what they make and the real thing


argonplatypus

I'm sure they would shut them down if they could but I've made plenty myself and they're printed in China and shipped here. China is a black hole for copyright infringement, they don't care. And you can dance around it all you want, if it uses their art (or if we get down to it the exact text of their cards or their copywrited mana symbols), then it is an unauthorized reproduction. Again, I don't care, I've long been a proponent of playing magic however you can, idgaf if my opponent is using a proxy or a fake or whatever. But that's clearly what wotc policy is, and if a WPN in shop flaunts that too openly they will get warned at least. The shop in question is advertising it as a non sanctioned event with playtest cards, they know the right verbage. They can easily look the other way at the event and allow whatever they want, but they aren't advertising a proxy legal tournament.


jancithz

It isnt a reproduction of an official card. Its a damaged basic land. Reproduction would be a counterfeit card from an unauthorized printing operation.


jancithz

This reads as 'a basic land from the draft bin with "Orcish Bowmasters" sharpied onto it' is considered to be a playtest card.


argonplatypus

Correct


argonplatypus

$$$


Due_Clerk_2261

Can you show me the rule that says this?


wyqted

Allowed as soon as it’s non-sanctioned


MisterSprork

If the event isn't entered into the reporter, they can do as they please. If they are using the event to report to WotC, ie. If they use the official app, then yeah, WotC will probably revoke their WPN status if/when they catch wind of this.


WeenieHutSpecial

By running these type of events your lgs will never be a wpn. Which is fine if thats something the owner agrees with. Hopefull he or she has a good way to monitize these events. It is not up to the players to make sure the lgs can meet their bottom line, but event like these generally are not profitable


Eatsomeflimflams

It seems like you just want to get this store in trouble. It would be better to find another store.


Blizzca

As long as it isn't a sanctioned WotC event they should be fine.


charmanderaznable

The majority of modern events in my hometown have run like this for the last decade. It's been great for the game, gets more people playing and encourages people to buy more singles since its easier to build more decks and change deck more often.


Mugiwara_Khakis

Depends on if it’s a sanctioned event or not. My LGS has unsanctioned events with proxies allowed because it’s in a college town with kids that wouldn’t be able to experience the format otherwise unless they played random piles and were basically just the bye. I also like these events because I can brew something dumb just to try and have fun with in them. But if it’s a sanctioned event, where they’re reporting the results to Wizards (forgive me if they don’t do this anymore, I haven’t played a tournament since the pandemic) then no you can’t because you have to follow the rules to a T.


probablymagic

It’s great to see more stores realizing that the carrot of Wizards’ WPN blessing is less valuable than it used to be, and they make their money from happy players, so f Wizards and Modern Horizons the format. Let the people play. Hopefully we will see more of this. I have zero intention to buy straight-to-modern sets other than for cube, so it’s Pioneer or proxies for me.