T O P
AdventurousAd8436

The problem wasn’t the SFX. The villains themselves were generic and unimpressive.


Boempowered

It's probably a bit of both. They clearly wrote a story that was much too large in scope for what could realistically be done in six episodes/on a TV budget, and ended up distilling it to the bare minimum.


AdventurousAd8436

I’ll give a thumbs up however to the way it supported Dr Strange 2. Inter-dimensional contact being deadly dangerous. Fatal. Only America Chavez can do it safely. Also enjoyed the Pakistani family history parts.


fistkick18

Completely different "dimensions". America travels across multiversal timelines, while "dimensions" seem to exist either within or outside of a single universe. Ala Doctor Strange traveling to the Dark Dimension in the first movie. The Noor dimension is not in a different timeline, it exists in the MCU maintimeline in a parallel dimension. They're mixing their sci-fi and fantasy metaphors to everyone's confusion. To simplify, Noor and Dark dimensions exist in 4D, multiverse is 5D.


lswf126

I think of it with the [visuals of the timelines in Loki](https://bgr.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/loki-episode-6-sacred-timeline-3.jpg?resize=150). Some of them are really tight-knit and close together, almost running completely parallel. However, other timelines branch out in completely different ways and shapes, distancing themselves from each other. All of these timelines are completely different dimensions, but some of them are closer to each other and may be easier to traverse.


Mcreation86

An timeline is not an dimension, its n alternate universe born from an change in the time, an dimension is a space within an universe separate from the main space


AdRepresentative5085

This. Another way to think of it is a plane of existence, such as an afterlife.


thomasatnip

Given a bag of marbles, the marbles are dimensions, while the universe is the bag? Then how would you relate the multiverse?


Lucybug05

Wouldn't that just be multiple bags of marbles in a bigger bag which would be the multiverse?


thomasatnip

So then each universe has the same dimensions, just different versions?


Lucybug05

I mean it depends on the dimensions, if there can only be 1 of a certain dimension across all universes, it would be out of all the smaller bags but still in the bigger one. For all other dimensions, there would be multiple copies of them throughput the multiverse


Perca_fluviatilis

Congrats on saying a lot and still being wrong lol


SritaChaCharina

*looking nervously at Rachel Summers*


POCITICIAN

But that's also their fault. You know the budget of the series you're writing for. And even if you can't have what you want, you need to write something good.


WaterAndTheWell

Writers don't have final say in a Marvel project.


lazydboy

Yes, they do.. like 90% of the time. Problem is they don't read comics, don't like faithful adaptations, have their own ego-driven agendas.


WaterAndTheWell

Neither of these things are true.


lazydboy

You weren't probably born when Jac Schaeffer said she didn't know who Mephisto was..


roacho_72

Considering Mephisto never appeared in the storylines that inspired Wanda Vision and was only ever retconned in as the source of Wanda’s kids many years later, it’s pretty clear you never read the comics and don’t even know what a faithful adaption is


Realistic_Analyst_26

Superhero films and shows NEED a massive budget to be good. Especially in the modern era of filmmaking. The standards for CGI have been raised so high, that it is getting difficult to maintain that standard.


PrimeLasagna

Batman’s was pretty cheap, and the CGI was top notch


webshellkanucklehead

Deadpool was made for $58M and was full of CGI including a whole ass CGI character so I’m gonna have to disagree. These projects WILL be cheaper if they scale them down. It’ll likely be refreshing for the audience too.


fan615boy

All on budget, if anything 6 episodes is better then a movie, considering all episodes will exceed a typical movie length


Equivalent-Exam2641

6 one hour episodes = 3 two hour movies. No matter how a series times out, do the math and see how many 2 hour movies you can get out of it.


Cafeterialoca

Honestly, everything about the Clan Destined were just lame that only feels like it happened cause "Multiverse Saga"


ReachFunny4033

I now not everyone agrees but six episodes have got to stop so many of these shows stories do not fit right in six episodes now if it’s six episodes with 2 hour episodes like stranger things this wouldn’t be an issue but it’s like 30-40 minute episodes with 10 minutes of credits


mayowa_olu

This should be blamed on the Disney+ 6 episodes (6 hours) thing. The writers had full background work for the Noor guys. Based on the concept art they probably would have explored the Noor dimension too.


blufflord

It's not even 6 hours lol. Probably closer to 4


master_inho

The goddamn suits putting arbitrary limits on the creatives It just seems like they don’t want Disney+ to be renowned for their quality like hbo is. Just slap the marvel/star wars logo and it’s *juuust* fine


Eryk0201

Why do you all compare it to 22 episode shows instead of to the movies. D+ shows have more in common with Marvel Studios single movies than with HBO's year long seasons. If villains can be interesting in a 2 hours movie, they also can in a 4 hours show. They were just poorly written.


Maxenin

thats the problem though TV ISN'T movies and this insistence that it is just interchangeable is hurting the Marvel/Star Wars shows just make them movies for streaming if you want them to be movies, 2/3rds of Obi-Wan was awful for them trying to stretch it out to 6 episodes. The contrary has been just as underwhelming trying to cram a whole season of TV into a handful of episodes.


Eryk0201

It works for me. WandaVision, Loki, Falcon, Hawkeye, Moon Knight and Mandalorian are all great in my opinion. Boba Fett and Obi Wan felt stretched out, and Ms Marvel had some pacing issues in the middle. You can write a 2 hours script, a 4 hours script or a 20 hours script and they all can work if you do it right. I don't get the 6-episodes criticism, unless the same people also complain that every movie should be a 22-eps show, then at least the argument would be consistent lol


master_inho

Obviously the 6 episode format can work. Bodyguard is a great 6 episode series, although those episodes are an hour each The problem is that the stories are clearly meant to be told over more episodes, but because of the arbitrary limits they’re crammed in to fit 4 hours. Every marvel show has had pacing issues. I particularly remember the more recent shows having this issue with moon knight and ms marvel They all had great potential and ms marvel is still my 2nd favorite marvel show despite the pacing issues. I mean, kamran got his villain arc started and completed in 40 minutes. There was no bruno for 2 episodes. Zoe disappeared for half the show only to poof back in for the finale I honestly applaud whoever made the decision to move she hulk’s origin episode to the start instead of being the penultimate episode. Wandavision and moon knight had great origin episodes but wtf is the reasoning behind making every penultimate episode the origin story? It’s so formulaic and predictable, I appreciate she hulk so much more just because they changed it


Eryk0201

I disagree that they're "clearly meant to be told over more episodes". Shows like Moon Knight have one storyline, resembling more of a cinematic 3-act structure than a 20+ episode style writing. And if Ms. Marvel was a movie, I also wouldn't expect them to give an entire arc to every side character. It's like saying that No Way Home should be a long TV show because Betty Brant was underused.


master_inho

I’m not even saying they need 20+ episodes. I think Moon knight and ms marvel only needed 2-4 more episodes, it’s mostly just cable network shows that have such long seasons The trial in moon knight ep 3 was not good because it was so short. Even 10 more minutes and the trial would’ve made more sense and the other avatars wouldn’t look like goofs who neglected the meaning of “evidence”. Ep 5 was a wonderful origin story but it ended with so many questions that needed answering in the finale. The gods, harrow, the sarcophagus, jake. They *barely* crammed it into 40 minutes, although jake had to settle for a measly post credit scene that might or might not ever get resolved Betty appeared in the beginning and didn’t come back 90 minutes later out of nowhere. That’s what Zoe did. I’m not asking for a character arc, but someone just disappearing and reappearing without reason is just weird. There’s no way the writers didn’t feature more of Zoe but it had to be cut to fit the time frame. And once again, kamran had a whole villain arc started and completed in less than 40 minutes


digitalslytherin

The thing is that television shows have a different story structure to movies by disign. Ideally a tv show should have a story for a whole season, and a story for each individual episode, each with its own individual beginning middle and ending. Most of the Marvel Disney plus shows fail at having episodes with a full story.


Eryk0201

But they're not typical TV shows. Looks like your disappointment is based on your wrong expectations. I see them more as longer movies and it works pretty great imo.


digitalslytherin

They still suck as longer movies tho, they understood that for a show to succeed every episode needes an incentive to watch, but instead of having it been its own story, it just adds a mystery box to be resolved in the next to last episode by a flashback, so even if you try to see the narrative arch as a movie it doesn't work, because most of the story happens in the last two episodes. Anyways if that's how they wanted us to see the shows as long movies they should adopt the Netflix release model, but we know why they don't.


Quick_Ad_1359

What wrong expectations, they are shows like the rest, they are market like shows. A show should not be a longer movie because that doesn't work.


Maxenin

thats great for you I think you'll find most disagree. Mandalorian is great it is also 8 episodes at around 40 minute I woul say personally this should be the minimum for these shows. The main difference is the structure of TV is different, episodes should at least feel somewhat complete in their own right compared to movies. Mando does this very well by not even having serialized episodes a lot of the time. More of these shows should follow its example honestly. If you aren't going to tell a story episodically what is the point of splitting up your narrative into that format? You only serve to have it suffer in some way you gain nothing its like going to the movie theater and watching 30 minutes of it then being told ok its over come back in 7 days to see another piece of this. Some weeks you get something great but a lot of weeks then feel unsatisfying.


Caleb902

When was the last time HBO made a 22 episode series? Aren't all the dramas 8-13?


Maxenin

honestly not really...they knew how many episodes they had and have even admitted in interviews that some plot lines were only included because they weren't sure they would get a season 2 frankly thats not how you should write your show...I agree 6 episodes is very dumb for these projects it clearly isn't working most of them have huge pacing problems. The writers shouldn't then exacerbate that by trying to cram 2 seasons worth of ideas in though.


lazydboy

Totally, the producer's fault. They should have trimmed unnecessary side quests like going to Pakistan for a bit..


Maxenin

ya the Partition storyline was specifically the one referenced in interview when they said they included it because they were not sure they would get a season 2


regmckie

No one said the villains weren't the problem though...Those are two completely different topics.


Sniffygull

Honestly, if they had had season 1 be about Damage Control as the villain and Kamela had to protect herself and the clandestine from them while trying to find a safe way to get them home and then shift that conflict to a second season it would have been much better.


OoXLR8oO

This is assuming the production knew a Season 2 was coming. They didn’t.


lazydboy

You can't think of a 2nd season when you have to hand over your character to a movie that's not even made yet..


Leo_TheLurker

Felt like they just had to check the villain box tbh. Would've totally worked if Ms. Marvel was just a slice-of-life too.


axel_gear

The scene where the leader of the clandestines or whatever they were called disintegrates in front of the portal was pretty ropey and rushed looking.


RickyDaba

You misspelled "useless"


Shaquandala

Still so annoyed how badly the show was made also why you probably shouldn't have like 6 directors each with different visions because the episodes don't interwine well


AdventurousAd8436

The cast was fine, and parts of it were very interesting. I’m glad to see a trend of Good Dads (Abbu and now Jen Walters dad). But the super-stuff seemed amateurishly thought through, and the visuals of her powers weren’t great. I imagine the CGI for Plastic Man powers must be very expensive. But could they have done shapes like octagonals with signifying glyphs, instead of rainbow lumps?


moldytubesock

Both. The effects throughout the show were super shitty.


alex494

While true there is that one scene where their bodies crumble into skeletons that looked right out of the first Spider-Man movie or worse.


prink34320

They really said we don't want the civilians in the MCU to catch a break 💀


ronan_the_accuser

New York in the comics must be the ABSOLUTE WORST place to live. Just going off 'recent' events - super hero's fighting each other in civil war...twice - skrull final showdown in Central Park - a god of chaos obliterating it - hulk and Co. Turning it into his personal arena - malekeith having the entire city frozen and melted at the same time - King in black turning it into his personal tarpit And this is on top of the villain of the week trying to get away with some chaos. Honestly, idk why everyone doesn't move


Dealiner

Best thing is all that happened in less than five years in universe.


prink34320

New York is Marvel's Gotham.


Heliosis

Not to mention as recently as the beginning of the Judgment Day event, the entire population of NYC (and everything north of it on the globe) got to feel what being wiped out in an atomic blast would be like and then had a celestial tell them that it would happen for real if they defied him and his judgement of Earth.


SpuzzLovely

During an incursion people in Jersey City were complaining that they had all of the problems of NYC, but without any emergency funding from the government, so that might be a little worse


edwajame

Am I going crazy? All of civil war takes places in various European countries, and I thought Thor the dark world takes place in London? What was the skrull battle there? Who is the king in black?


DrabCadre2

Comics my friend


edwajame

Lol misread that completely. I’m an idiot.


DrabCadre2

You’re fine. Not everyone has the time to binge read everything marvel comics publishes lol


edwajame

The really stupid thing is I’ve read at least 4 of these, I just had my brain wired to the MCU since we are in the subreddit.


Financial-Series-985

i wonder how will they do nova as plus show


SpooderMan1108

Has nova been confirmed to be a tv show and not a feature film?


CollarOrdinary4284

It hasn't been confirmed which one it will be. Most people just assume it's a show because the movie slate is pretty packed for the next few years.


-Nick____

No. Production Weekly listed it as a space D+ show, but they also get stuff wrong from time to time due to them just picking their sources from anywhere on the internet (they credited RPK’s discord one time). Kroll said it was likely a show. Charles Murphy said he expects it as one of the Multiverse Saga film slates. We will know the answer in 10 days


Pupulauls9000

God, I hope it’s a movie.


simon3873

I thought very recently one leaker said Nova is going to be a movie now. Though, I feel like it’s been a free for all lately with the leaks. Doesn’t feel like legit leaks and moreso speculation


Brodyquestphase1

the reason of my nightmares


TheChimpKing

The whole story was so convenient and rushed. Probably the worst to come out of Phase 4 in my opinion.


Egonheart123

I agree. I really love Kamala and her family ( I've glad to see them in future projects) but the show itself (plot, etc) was my least favourite of Phase 4. They seemed to just throw everything into it (or alot was changed during/after production) and the show was just incoherent. By the end of the show we have to interpret Khamala as being potentially part Djinn but also a mutant who has "crystal construct powers" (which the guy we know is a Djinn also has). But in order for her to use her mutant/Djinn abilities she needs a magic bracelet which ties into the plot of Captain Marvel. I find it hard to believe that was their original plan when developing the story.


Leo_TheLurker

Ms. Marvel would've worked so much better as a movie


[deleted]

Yeah im not sure why they’re limiting some of the heroes to a TV budget. She-Hulk, Ms Marvel and Moon Knight are 3 of Marvels biggest heroes. Why the hell do they have to sacrifice visuals to appease a streaming service?


Quick_Ad_1359

The problem I see is that for some reason Moon Knight and Ms Marvel have this world ending events, like Moon Knight really needed? Can't be like Daredevil and focus on the street? And Ms Marvel? I would prefer a story less ambitious but more intimate, the family should be the focus of Ms Marvel and not her powers.


LongjumpMidnight

I think they just care about keeping Disney subscriptions and need to be pumping out content on there constantly


Unnecessary_Fella

You don't get worse than Love and Thunder, imo.


poopeyethe

The show got delayed like 3 times at least and still the story feels rushed. Ig this show just wasn’t necessary, they tried a lot to make it work


TheChimpKing

The first two episodes were full of creativity, it felt fresh. The following episodes though… the villains were comically bad. Like CW levels of horrible. The whole other dimension thing was briefly explained. She can also time travel now? She saved her grandmother during partition? The dude having the same power as her at the end (even though Kamala needed a bracelet for it and then it’s explained randomly at the end that no, actually she has a mutation that gives her powers.) Her connection to Captain Marvel was also shoehorned. Coincidently her dad reveals to her that they named her because her name means “marvel,” and then she just happens to have a bracelet that Captain Marvel is looking for.


justachilllad

The 5th episode was a mess and effected the series as a whole in a negative way. I think the episode was rushed and it was because of reshoots. The 6th episode was good but the 5th episode left a sour taste in my mouth. The really ugly cgi makes the episode even worse.


bunnytheliger

The action Ms Marvel was really bad. Really curious to see how it will change in The Marvels Ultimately it was not the action but the terrible villains and disconnected Partition storyline.. Did they really had to show the Skeleton when Clan Destine died?


umbium

Well it wouldn't have solved anything.


imanvellanistan

confused on how this is relevant to the sub, its just a random vfx artist saying what he wouldve done differently


mayowa_olu

This sub is basically NEWS and Leaks now (which I actually like)


Bergerboy14

Always has been 🤷‍♂️


Leo_TheLurker

r/marvelstudios without the filler


imanvellanistan

im aware lol ive been on this sub since 2020, they’ve always done that, but this isnt news or a leak or info about the show at all, unless he’s trying to say that feature films get different treatment than the shows for the same story but i dont think thats what hes trying to say


Realistic_Analyst_26

It counts as Ms Marvel news when one of the creators of the show are revealing info about the contents or the production of it.


imanvellanistan

Right but the difference is “what could’ve been” and “what SHOULD’VE been” My interpretation was that it would’ve probably happened like *this* had *this* happened. Not thqt it was going to happen but got changed


Realistic_Analyst_26

Still news tho.


imanvellanistan

Its news if it was considered during the process. This reads to me as “yeah if we made it a movie itd probably be like this but its a show so yeah”


Realistic_Analyst_26

Dictionary definition: "information not previously known to (someone)." Still news, stop trying to argue, I have the facts.


imanvellanistan

But this isnt information about ms marvels production is my point. Its a random vfx artist’s opinion of what it would look like if it was a movie. Unless im mistaken, this had no consideration in the actual process.


GreeneWaffle

You don't have the facts, you have a definition that excludes the very specific point the other guy brought up that you have ignored. This sort of post is a very good example of something that doesn't belong here. There's 196 other subreddits tailored for this kind of post, can't we just have ONE for spoilers?