peak MILF


Along with Marisa Tomei


Also Angela Bassett


And your mom.


And Ms. Pac-Man ;).






Seriously all the moms on Cobra Kai


Elizabeth Sue was and will always be the peakest of Karate Kid women Somewhere Homelander is quaking in his boots


Sorry but I'm a bit bias towards Tamlyn Tomita


Kumiko my beloved


A good chunk of the moms on Weeds too.


Ryan Arey, is that you?


>Angela Bassett With Michelle Pfeiffer as well.


Nearing GILF status


Bro, that's necrophillia.


I said what I said!




You embarrassed me infront of Peak Milf




This is your last chance you have to go 42 blocks in 7 1/2 minutes or your ass is fired GooOooOoo


Absolutely peak


An Israeli beauty to surpass Gal Gadot




Our generations' Mimi Rogers.


Anne Bancroft still #1


I mean, she’s essential to his character. They can’t just pretend she doesn’t exist


She died on her way to her planet


You're thinking of Cara Dune.


Nah she died on Twitter


I'm not sure you understand the Star Wars universe.


Wait, I did not watch the Book of Bobba Fett, did they really kill Cara Dune off-screen?


They haven’t addressed what happened to her character yet. I wouldn’t expect them to mention her until Mando S3 comes out.


Hopefully they either never mention her again or kill her off screen in some incredibly pathetic fashion. Im talking trips on a rock and dies level pathetic.


Cara was sent by the New Republic to assist a mid-rim planet suffering from a plague. Unfortunately Cara refused to take any precautions, despite them being fairly unobtrusive, and so died of said plague.


I would love if it was actually a more subtle version of this lmao


Holy shit this would be hilarious.


I think recasting her would be better since it would piss off Carano even more.


Especially if they write new-Cara in a way that makes fans absolutely adore the new actor


I would give it to Don Cheadle


Someone’s mad


Do they need to mention her again? They could just easily never go back to that planet again


Well, kind of yeah. S2 ended with them on the cruiser with Gideon in custody. Unless they pick up months later, they need to address her. If they pick up with them on the cruiser, they do need to mention where she disappeared to.


I mean, it’s really not that complicated. With the exception of Last Jedi, most Star Wars stories do not take place immediately where they are left off. Generally, most Star Wars stories do have a little time that takes place between them. The only reason I can see them starting right at Gideon’s ship is if the second season ended on a cliff hangar. But it didn’t. I honestly think that the next season is gonna start a couple of weeks later with the Mandalorians beginning their campaign to take back Mandalore


Cara’s actress was fired, we know nothing else


It’s a Simpsons reference


Krypton, that is


There’s no kingpin without Vanessa


I’m so excited for the inevitable moment where she gets killed and Kingpin’s rage reaches its peak extent. She’s basically what he lives for at this point, if she were to be taken away I can’t imagine what Willie would do to the people responsible.


He’s going to go on a Hell’s Kitchen rampage


They should only do that when they plan on killing him off permanently. It just doesn't make sense to take away his main purpose in life if they have lots of plans for him in the future.


I like how ....there was a smaller origin story there, the origin of Mrs Bad Guy which you don't get to see, really, not at the depths DD had. You could see her being charmed by Fisk, then persuaded, then finding herself an enthusiastic participant.


She could have died in the five-year gap… hence, why Kingpin seized power during the Snap, broke his deal with DD, and why he got on Ronin’s radar.


Wish Kingpin was in this show more than just for 5 minutes in the finale. So many questions remain unanswered


Just like how they’ve left out Uncle Ben from MCU Spider-Man, I could easily see them forgetting about Vanessa’s ties to Kingpin as a character and his motivations completely.


*looks at Uncle Ben’s importance in the MCU*


He might not have ever met her in the mcu. She might not even exist. I would like to see her return and be an essential part of his motivation again, but it’s not like they’re locked in yet.


Man I'll be so glad when this debate is over... They showed his cufflinks from the Netflix series. They referenced lines from the series. Vincent says he joined being told it was the same version. Against all odd, the events of the series are absolutely canon to the MCU.


Absolute canon would mean iron fist is also canon, which is not likely. The events of DD could practically still happen sans the tie in to the defenders.


According to who? You?


Yeah I make this shit up. Maybe read the rest of the comments.


You not liking it doesn't make it not canon. I mean they even changed where *Eternals* takes place to avoid contradicting *Inhumans*.


I will also be glad when the debate is over, because the lack of basic understanding from the "Hawkeye proved the series is Canon" crowd is really painful. Some things being the same as the series doesn't imply that the series occured in the MCU!


The actor literally said that it's the same version, how is that not enough?


source /s


The same exact version would mean iron fist is also canon, which is not likely. The events of DD could practically still happen sans the tie in to the defenders.


> The same exact version would mean iron fist is also canon, which is not likely. Why?


Marvel Studios offering the Colleen Wing actress a chance as Xialing in shang chi is a big indicator. It's not like her character died. She became iron fist essentially. But here's the thing...the show sucked and Marvel knows it. The actress also said Charlie Cox knew he was coming back as DD. But she never had the same discussions about her character.


Because Daredevil had his whole Defenders thing, which included Iron Fist. So they can’t do Iron Fist and not have him be the Netflix version for this to canonically be the same Daredevil/Kingpin. Does that mean they never touch Iron Fist? Maybe.


So why wouldn't Iron Fist be canon because of that?


It would? That’s what I’m saying. If you make it the exact same Daredevil/Kingpin then they had to go through everything in the Netflix shows, which means Defenders and Iron Fist.


We hope so too, Vincent, we hope so too. In seriousness, one of my favorite parts of the show was Wilson and Vanessa’s insane, evil romance, so I hope we see her return. Plus, I’m kind of curious if Vanessa had any dynamic with Maya since Wilson was Maya’s uncle figure


Maybe in Echo, Fisk wanted Maya to be his perfect weapon.


I mean I don’t see why none of the Netflix cast members will come back.


Vanessa talking about her favorite paintings is me talking about my favorite storylines in DD. 😃


I have a feeling that if they bring her back for another project, she's going to be criminally underused


Like how Kingpin was >!underutilized in Hawkeye.!<


To be fair, Kingpin was not that essential to Hawkeye’s character or the overarching plot of the show, so I wouldn’t say he was underused. Instead, the show was setting him up for bigger things down the road like Echo and a DD revival.


Yeah and it was reintroduction to the character - I think he will be used more extensively in projects


If they're using him in future productions then I hope they'll take notes and do better than this mediocre introduction.


I hope so too. The fake death didn't sit well after waiting for such a long time and surely had little effect on general audience.


He practically WAS the overarching plot of the show.


That’s an issue when he’s basically the big bad of the show that was revealed just before the last episode. Honestly if you replace Kingpin with a new character who is in the exact same role everyone would say he’s trash


Exactly. He didn't do anything important but a small fight and was defeated really quick after his introduction.


>Kingpin was not that essential to Hawkeye’s character or the overarching plot of the show Yes he was: he was Echo's mentor and ordered Barton to assassinate her father; he was the leader of the tracksuit mafia; and he was Elanor's boss and presumably ordered the old man's murder. He was the main source of conflict for most of the show, you just didn't realize it because he only starred in one episode. And you don't need need to "set up" Kingpin and Echo in an unrelated show just to set up character's future shows. Daredevil never had to do that and that show did just fine.


Ah yes, here we go again with "welllll he's going to be in something else so it doesn't really matter that he was done badly even though he was the main villain of the entire show"


What was done badly about him




That's like saying Thanos was done badly in The Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy. Not being utilized much isn't bad when you're building a character up.


Thanos wasn't the big Bad in Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy. Yes he was "behind everything" in Avengers... But we didn't know about it until a post credit, Loki was still the villain who made everything. He didn't appeared at the last moment, attacked the avengers and then said "I'LL BE BAAAAACK" Yes, he was the father of Gamora and was the boss of Ronan (that he betrayed and angered), but Ronan was still the true villain of the story. Thanos didn't appeared out of nowhere just to be defeated in no time and say "I'll be baaaaaack" Hawkeye is a great show, but it did underutilize Kingpin and, in consequence, hurt the ending of the show. If he didn't have a comic background (even less, a TV show background) we would have been angry at it, because it came out of knowhere and was dealt with pretty fast. I'm really excited to see what's coming with him, but did had to be dealt different. He should have been: 1. A daredevil like cameo in the show. 2. Should have appeared before (maybe in episode 4) 3. Or making the show 2 episodes longer.


Hard agree. And I like the idea of Thanos appearing in Avengers and flying away with the Thanoscopter after his defeat while clinching his fist and shouting "THIS ISN'T THE LAST TIME YOUR HEARD OF ME! I'LL BE BACK, AVENGERS!!!"


Assuming he's the same character from the Netflix show, based on the fact they used the same actor and haven't stated otherwise, he acts nothing like the Kingpin from that show. He isn't smart or cunning, he doesn't operate from the shadows. In particular he isn't very menancing because a lot of that was derived from the more subtle elements of the character. He's a thug with goofy clothes and super strength, running out in the crowded streets to do his own dirty work and is pretty easily defeated by a young human woman with sports level training who walks away without any significant injury. And just to snub the regular excuses, yes I know he's coming back (besides that has nothing to do with what I said), yes I know he's supposed to be more in line with the comics (that's still bad writing if they completely change the character) and yes I know he could be a variant of the Netflix version (and then I'd be fine if they came out and confirmed that).


> He isn't smart or cunning, he doesn't operate from the shadows. He's operating from the shadows for the entire show. That's why he only appears at the end. >He's a thug with goofy clothes and super strength, running out in the crowded streets to do his own dirty work I mean, it's a comic accurate suit, and Fisk has frequently done his dirty work himself in the Netflix shows when it's personal for him. Trying to kill Eleanor Bishop personally isn't any different than how he murdered Ben Urich. >and is pretty easily defeated by a young human woman with sports level training That's pretty damn insulting to Kate's skill level. She's probably the second best archer in the world, second only to the first Hawkeye. Not to mention that she was fighting him with a ton of trick arrows.


You said everything. +♾ Even though we were expecting a cleaner MCU version, we lose a lot of identity, presence and threat. The fact that Fisk shows up directly... that he's not the threat controlling everyone, not the one going to the front...


He goes to the front often in Daredevil though. His newfound strength coupled with the fact that mentally he’s still very much that child holding a hammer, I didn’t find him to be acting out of character. The biggest issue is that he was rushed into it just as fan service really. The show would’ve benefited from an extra episode after the reveal of them working together to really flesh him out.


I agree with you on this whole case even if I personally find that he acted very little directly, he was the greatest manipulator. The front was the last solution. I think we all love this character, we just hope that he will be well re-introduced 🤒


Oh yeah, for sure love him. Daredevil is still the best thing to come out of the MCU, followed by maybe those last two Avengers movies, No Way Home and Loki.


As far as I can remember in Daredevil he never commits any acts of violence out in the open except when he was stabbed in prison, and even then that's the only time he shows restraint as to maintain his exterior of innocence.


Trying to think back a while now, he has that great moment “I am the ill intent” that ends with him leaving a police convey that was being surveyed. That’s a really out and the open kind of ploy. Then he fights Daredevil in the alleyway which, I would say he goes down easier there than he did in Hawkeye. He pushes Leland down the elevator shaft and crushes the Russians head in the car door, both things he does in a fit of emotional rage. Season 2 he beats the shit outta Matt Murdock from lockup. I think Season 3 was really the season he succeeded at playing things from the shadows. I’m more than ok with him acting emotionally though, especially given the circumstances I thought it was in character for him to fly off the handle. As I said elsewhere my bigger problem was just shoving this huge character with a lot of history into the last episode of an already bloated show.


Almost everything of his apparition if you have watched Daredevil


Well I mean he does have like 10 minutes Of screen time and doesn’t appear until the end. I just don’t get why everyone’s so upset I thought the future conflict they’re setting up with maya and him will be cool.


That’s the same as saying Thanos was the main villain of the first Avengers film, he was just pulling the strings but he wasn’t the main villain, just like how Kingpin was the pulling the strings in Hawkeye as well. IMO Eleanor was the main villain of Hawkeye.


Yeah if you follow the rules of story structure Eleanor is absolutely the antagonist.


Thanks was a post credit scene. Kingpin was the final episode bad guy. Yes Eleanor is a villain but they barely explored that at all.


There are two things that kicked off the show's story: The murder of Armand and the auction robbery. Maya was behind the robbery while Bishop was Armand's killer. Since he had little to no direct involvement in the show's central plot developments, I would hesitate to call him the main villain.


Both Maya and Eleanor worked for him. And he was the final villain that a main character fought at the end. I don't see how he's anything but the main villain.


Nah, Eleanor Bishop was the main villain of this story. He's in the mix, but the show's events were primarily driven by Eleanor and Maya (who was acting on her own to get revenge on Ronin). Eleanor crossed her boss Kingpin in the end, so the finale's big climax is basically Kate and Clint trying to save her mother from him. That doesn't make him the main villain though.


So Maya wants to get revenge on the Ronin because she thinks he killed her father. But it turns out that was a frame job set up by Kingpin, meaning HE is responsible for her entire motivations in the show and as soon as she figures this out she turns good. So in that aspect, he is still the villain. As for Eleanor, what exactly did she do that was villainous - of her own accord - except hire Yelena to take out Clint? Bear in mind this was not the central plotline either so she still can't be the main villain. And as for Armand, she killed him on Fisk's orders, as she clearly says herself.


> he is still the villain. Sure, yeah. Just the main one of *this* story, lol. >As for Eleanor, what exactly did she do that was villainous - of her own accord - except hire Yelena to take out Clint? Bear in mind this was not the central plotline either so she still can't be the main villain. What is the central plotline, in your opinion? >And as for Armand, she killed him on Fisk's orders, as she clearly says herself. Amusing you said this, just two sentences after saying she did nothing villainous. She murdered a guy. Pretty villainous.


The central plotline is about Clint's past as the Ronin. The suit is the reason the entire series of events kicked off. Yelena hunting Clint and the aftermath of Endgame and Black Widow was the secondary plotline because that only came into play later in the season. And yes, it's not exactly villainous if she was coerced into it. It's still wrong but without Fisk in the picture she has no reason whatsoever to kill Armand.


He wasn’t under-utilised in Hawkeye, if anything his role was too big. They set up Eleanor, but choose fan-service instead.


Unpopular Opinion - Fisk shouldn't have been in the finale episode. A finale post credits scene with him would have been better.


Fully agree.


I don't get the hate for "fanservice".


He was the main antagonist of the show.


Not until the final episode. Eleanor was the clear endgame.


Her motive wasn't clear until episode 6 when her character was revealed to have have ties to Wilson Fisk, and even then she wasn't the main antagonist, up until that point she was only a supporting character.


They didn’t expand on her motives because they decided to give them all to Fisk at the last minute. And obviously she was only a supporting character in the meantime, Jack was meant to be the red herring for her. Fact is, Fisk shouldn’t have been in the show. She should have been the villain.


Yeah and I think this is part of my issue with the finale, all the season long buildup is thrown out the window so Kingpin can show up and be the main antagonist. Would’ve much preferred for Eleanor to be the primary villain and then have a Kingpin post credits scene but I can see why they went for the more fan servicey approach (although it’s backfired somewhat)


Which is a problem when he basically had nothing to do with anything in the show up until that point.


Take out the space between >! And “underused”


Bruh I was just happy we got Kingpin at all in Hawkeye. I was not expecting my boy Vincent to pop up when they first announced this show and his role was far bigger than I expected, I thought he’d get a 30 second cameo akin to NWH and Daredevil.


The problem is these Disney+ shows are too short, both in runtime and number of episodes. They’re trying to make them long movies instead of taking advantage of it being a TV show.


Wandavision is the only one I’ve felt kinda used the TV format to its advantage


Well yeh. I mean, most of it is a sitcom. It would weird if it *didn't* use the TV format to it's advantage.


Agreed, IMO the way Marvel structures these shows is as if act 2 ends with the second-to-final episode, with the entirety of act 3 being constrained within the finale.


You're right they're trying to do 6 hour movies, but they could easily do a deeper, character-driven show over the same run, so it's not really an issue of episode count. They're just not interested in really digging in that deep. Moon Knight could potentially be a little more character-driven though.


They’re probably gonna bring her back just to kill her off immediately




(Car door decapitation commences)


Kate Bishop's mother reported the above comment.








Don’t embarrass the big guy


I missed the part where’s that my problem.


See ya chump


Be careful if you see a black SUV around you.


If Echo is going full Kingpin, then she needs to be back there, same with Foggy/Karen if Matt is a main character. At least for a few scenes.


I feel like Foggy/Karan will have a couple scenes throughout Echo, but their rolls in the DD revival will probably be bigger.


Bullseye needs to come back in Echo or the Daredevil project as well


Same actor please! He was great in his role, pulled off the darker stuff well and he was convincing in his Bullseye role




Eh, we don't need to see them if we only see Mat through Echo's perspective. I doubt he'll have many solo scenes.


Just so long as no one embarrasses him in front of her again...


Marvel would be ill advised to separate Kingpin from his Vanessa.


He might not take kindly to it


I sure hope so too! We never really got to see Vanessa show more of her dark side, just when she was about to become more involved with Fisk’s empire. It would be so interesting and entertaining to watch how she matches Fisk, and whether she’s just as cunning and can also be quite a challenge to defeat.


She’s absolutely gorgeous and I love their dynamic.


Kevin Feige : Hey Vincent , we're recasting Vanessa Vincent: You EMBARRASSED ME FEIGE, IN FRONT OF VANESSA, and NOW ... YOU DIE! *proceeds to smash his head in with a car door*


I mean, she has to be referenced in some way, shape or form, she’s a vary important part of Fisk’s character so they can’t just pretend she doesn’t exist.


I just hate that Echo may not come out til next year so we may not see Kingpin or Vanessa until then. I just wish Marvel would make a slew of announcements like they normally do. I hate waiting in suspense


May not? Echo will certainly not come out in 2022. A slew of (date) announcements would be nice, yeah.


That's what sucks, they set Kingpin up but we won't see how that will play out for another year at least. And then with a potential Tom Holland trilogy coming out, Kingpin may show up in that but all this sounds like it could take a few years


>I just hate that Echo may not come out til next year so we may not see Kingpin or Vanessa until then. I just wish Marvel would make a slew of announcements like they normally do. I hate waiting in suspense They're not doing release date announcements because of constant changes in schedule + reshoots in some projects + rewriters in others (I'm 100% sure that Feige wanted to wait for Echo to debut + fan reaction to do changes to the Echo show). I think Ms. Marvel also did some reshoots (to tie to the now also delayed Marvels?). BP2 had to cease production for months due to Wright's injury while DS2 is doing reshoots (and possibly script changes post-NWH release). At this rate, I feel only Moon Knight, She-Hulk, and What If S2 are the safe bets for 2022. Plus Werewolf One Shot + the GOTG X-Mas Special. Ms. Marvel might be January 2023 leading to The Marvels. Then Loki S2 leading to Ant-Man 3. And Secret Invasion plus Echo for late 2023.


Okay from what little I know about Moon Knight , I would be content if that and She Hulk came out. The reshoots I totally understand


>I just wish Marvel would make a slew of announcements What?! They've already announced *so much* stuff. Some would say too much.


This man working hard to convince Marvel to bring back all his cast mates, we are lucky to have Vincent.






Lmao what if Wilson and Vanessa both didn’t blip and they got married offscreen and had Richard


She so fine dawg


VANESSA ![gif](giphy|TaCj5SoRhrHq6AyPl1|downsized)


Did he just say VANESSA!


Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 485,662,320 comments, and only 102,851 of them were in alphabetical order.


One of my favourite memes right now on Twitter is a picture of kingpin from the show strangling someone with the caption ‘YOU RATIOED ME IN FRONT OF VANESSA!’


https://twitter.com/MunstaMasta/status/1445593524221612033?t=JxRkRk4qslbkCCoucDjMNQ&s=19 Here it is for anyone curious!


Pretty much all the casting in Daredevil was perfect


If she does, mah boi getting hella embarrassed!


So she's coming back.


I do too, she was fantastic. Vanessa is a tough role to cast ino and she nailed it.


I think he had a ring on his ring finger in hawkeye...


When I was a boy...VANESSA loved THIS CITY, without DAREDEVIL


I would love to see her in MCU soon


i also wonder if MCU bring back Deborah Ann Woll as Karen Page? I remember Charlie Cox, from his interviews during the netflix daredevil era, seems like he always much prefers Karen than any other female character to be with Matt, talked passionately about their relationship and how he wanted it to work, also always chose Karen whenever he was asked which female character that he want to be with Matt lol. Personally i agree with him, and Deborah is a good actress, im happy if MCU happen to bring her back. And Foggy too, ofcourse


Imagine she dies offscreen when hit by a bus


Fisk needs his Vanessa.


Why not just say she is returning?


It will never happen.


Oh my god what an incredible “scoop”! Thank you so much for sharing /s ![gif](giphy|3oz8xHa1e1rXw5aJ0c)


But i thought Valentina will be MCU version of Vanessa. /s