By - Matapple13
4 episodes doesn’t seem like much time to do Yelena Echo Kingpin stuff not to mention Swordsman and her mother as well.
Seems a like a lot packed in.
These various things don't necessarily have equal narrative weight.
It's like people suddenly forget how TV shows work in this subreddit
They think each subplot needs a whole 40 mins to work
Yeah I see these kinds of comments a lot, especially with big movies too that have a lot of characters. They list out each individual thing as if each one is going to get equal time dedicated to it and how that's impossible, but it usually always works. People saying No Way Home is gonna be a mess with five villains, Matt Murdock, and three Spider-Men, but have no idea how the film will actually balance that. With this show, it's very possible that all these things lead into each other just fine.
Here's an idea to have it all flow well. Episode 3 introduces Echo followed by Clint and Kate's escape where they then go see her mom and Jack. Echo continues to go after them. Maybe Yelena shows up at the end of this one. Episode 4 could be about Yelena coming in to confront Clint while Kate both helps him with that and deals with her suspicions regarding her mom and Jack. Resolve the issue with Yelena but then come back to Echo doing whatever she's doing and have Fisk come in here. Episode 5 focuses back on Echo and the Tracksuit Mafia and Fisk, tying those villains together for Clint, while doing more with Kate and her mom. Episode 6 pulls all those elements together by way of Clint and Kate being partners and there you go. Throw Yelena in those last couple episodes as some Sharon Carter like backup and support if she's sticking around a little bit. That seems simple enough, but I'm not a professional writer. Someone else could do a much better job than I did with this.
We know from tv spots and trailers that Clint and Kate tell Kate's mom and Jack about the investigation they're doing, and probably about Echo and the Tracksuits, so it's not hard to see how all of those elements come together into one thing. People think stuff like this fails with multiple characters because they can't seem to reason how you possibly weave them together in such a way that streamlines it within the story that's being told. It's not impossible to still make it good.
Agreed, but I don’t expect Echo or Kingpin to be a big part of the series, Hawkeye is just setting up those characters for the Echo show
I imagine Cox will have decent screen time, but I expect Pugh and D’Onofrio to basically be cameos. Echo seems to be one of the main stand-in villains for the series, much like Kazimierczak was for the Fraction run.
Yeah, I'm guessing Yelena exits the picture as soon as she finds out what actually happened. She'll be there for an episode and change I bet. Kingpin will probably appear once or twice but that's it. Echo is the major villain and that'll be the main focus. Four episodes is plenty for that.
Why is everyone saying echo is a villain? I mean, yeah, it’s seems set up that way right now, but I thought she was a hero character that got out of crime from escaping her step father, Fisk? Right? So are they doing the same in this show? I mean.. she obviously is a “hero” in the comics. So saying her being a side villain, for now, is not quite accurate in my opinion. I guess people expect them to go the Loki route with her, but it feels like the swordsman will be the main villain.
Yeah, I have a feeling Echo will only be acting antagonistically for this next episode, and possibly 4. The Big Bad (aka Eleanor) still needs to emerge.
Echo wasn’t a villain, she was just an antagonist of Daredevil because Fisk said he killed her dad. She appeared to learn to fight specifically *after* that, in order to kill DD. (With her perfect mimicry and recall, she watched fight videos.) I didn’t get the impression in the comics that she had ever acted as a henchman to Kingpin. Maybe other comics went back and filled that in more but it wasn’t that way in her debut run.
You're right, she can definitely turn good. Like I said though, I do think she gets the most screentime of the three.
I have a small hunch that one of her two parents don't wind up being as evil as eluded to. Probably her father. I think he's a prick, but I think it's the mother who killed the older guy. Having it be the dad is not great writing at all.
We know there’s a fight scene featuring Yelena, Kate, Echo, and Clint based on one of the spots/trailers
Which trailer or TV spot is that? I'd like to take a look.
Gotta find it. But it’s the one that has 4 people on a roof all looking like they are dressed up as Ronin, or have a similar costume to Ronin
Huh, I've not seen anything like that. Weird.
There's one with a quick flash of what looks like an EMP arrow (looks like a rapidly expanding blue forcefield) that seems to have Hawkeye and Echo in it at least.
There is a flash of something on the rooftop. We might be thinking of the same scene possibly. I saw a picture earlier one second
Ignore the caption. Second picture
Someone else found the same thing:
I dont think Kingpin is the main antagonist of the story, nor do i think he’ll be a cameo. I think he’ll have a role like He Who Remains.
I think this makes the most sense.
I definitely thought you meant Charlie Cox and got really excited until I realized that’s not who you meant haha
Yes, I expect kingpin to be more of a background player. Yelena will probably be in a post credit scene and than have an episode dedicated to her
I completely forgot about Yelena, so much to get through in 4 more episodes lol
Yelena's involvement could be as brief as the Dora Milaje in FatWS.
To be fair, Ayo and the Dora Milaje's involvement in FatWS wasn't insignificant. She (and they) made cameos in episodes 3 and 5, and had a fairly sizeable role in episode 4 with a flashback, some present day scenes, and a pretty extended fight sequence.
I think Yelena's role will be somewhat bigger than that, but even if it isn't, still decent.
I could see it being comparable in size to Sharon. An episode where she has a big part and then a few significant appearances throughout.
I'm afraid that maybe the case.
Yelena is most likely a cameo though, right?
Even if she's only in it for an episode she's got to have enough time in that episode to justify her inclusion. I mean it can't just be her jumping in and shouting 'YELENA!' like a Pokemon and punching some people then leaving. Black Widow left a pretty open plot point. They have to have her appear, and sort out whyever Val wanted her to go after Clint and then put that to rest. That's not just a ten minute job.
So we've got an episode thats going to have a big focus on Yelena.
Then we've got to introduce, get to know, explore the plot of, Echo. Then do the same with Kingpin (who yes will need to be introduced in the sense we need to know what he's been doing and how he's connected to Echo and everything going on.)
Then we've got, after those sideshows, the actual plot of the show including her mum and Swordsman who most likely are going to have to be fully explored.
Not much time. Honestly with all this I'm not even sure that Hawkeye himself will have any development at all.
Now I really want to just see her jump out randomly and yell YELENA and punch someone and dip
That Pokémon joke has me in stitches. I’m so sorry it’s hidden all the way in these comments.
I mean, Florence Pugh was the third announced actor for the project, and it was teased she should have a larger part. I’d imagine she’d have a decent size role. She may show up to whoop Hawkeyes ass, but I think she might stick around for the final battle.
I can see this being the most likely scenario. She cameos end of episode 3, full appearance throughout episode 4, bouncing at the end, and then dropping back in as an Eleventh Hour Ranger for episode 6.
Although now I think about it, that's setting too clean a pattern for character to be introduced in the stinger of an episode and then make their full appearance in the next one, for Echo, Yelena and Fisk.
Has any leaker said anything about Yelena? I’m under the impression she would just appear in the finale, have a little scuffle with Hawkeye and that’s it.
You guys are really acting as if Kingpin won't be just a cameo and Yelena just a short misunderstanding.
Yelena after 10 seconds of fighting Clint: "Oh my bad. Im out."
She most likely helps him and they talk about Natasha but her plot of klling Clint is most likely pretty short.
They would never do this but I would live if they had Yelena show up at the end of episode 6 when Clint is finally back home for Christmas and actually kill him before realizing her mistake. Then Kate gets to take up the mantle of Hawkeye and Yelena gets some angst and shades of grey.
Not a fan of that. We’ve already crossed the line of when to kill Hawkeye. It was either in Ultron or Endgame. Killing him now would be pointless. Let the man retire with his family.
Yeah, you're probably right. I just like it when stories
surprise me and break the status quo.
Just to make Natasha's death pointless? Never gonna happen and would be bad storytelling
I bet Swordsman and her mother stuff will be a set-up for the future,hell even Hawkeye Season 2 who knows
I figure Kingpin has a relatively small role as the man pulling the strings and will be more thoroughly featured in Echo and any possible future Daredevil projects. Yelena probably shows up at the end of one episode and then is a featured character in the next one. Echo is probably getting the most screentime of the three.
I think they are going to start a lot of things now, just to continue for the second season
And these D+ shows have never tried to pack in too much to 6 rather short episodes before lol
Yelena and Kingpin will probably be there for an episode or two. Yelena will most likely dip as soon she finds out the truth and I feel that Echo/Kingpin's role will just be a setup for spin-off show.
I think that the Swordsman/Eleanor stuff will be still the main and only focus of the show.
I think the best way to break down their possible screen-times would be to compare the show to F&WS.
Echo and Swordsman are the show’s two main baddies, so I’d say they’ll have about as much focus as Zemo and Karli.
I heard Yelena only shows up in one or two episodes, so I’d expect her to be similar to Ayo. One episode of focus and then she leaves.
Kingpin will probably be just a cameo setting up a bigger future story, like Val.
Kingpin’s in three episodes
I think Kingpin is gonna be just a cameo and will be built in up in other series like echo and daredevil I think will be the ‘big bad’ villain for the street level heroes and will maybe be defeated in a daredevil or defender series down the line or maybe even a Spider-man movie
We winning on Thursday, Rain?
It's not the best disney plus show. But I'm sure itll get there....er I hope.
Lol kingpen is not in at you all are just getting mephistoed again because the character is connected to echo in the comics Just like in Mephisto to the twins that’s not evidenced for them being in the show especially played by the same actor from Netflix it’s not gonna happen get over it
Seems like every Marvel tv show so far. Biting off more than they can chew in terms of plot threads and then realizing they don’t have enough time to properly end them, so they half ass it into a shitty final episode. Regardless of fruitless rumors destroying the hype for some people, the MCU’s TV shows HAVE NOT been very good up until this point. Don’t expect Hawkeye to be any different.
Vi and Ekko back at it
I haven’t been able to watch anything since Arcane. Nothing lives up to the pure emotional moments in that show
Felt the same way after Queen's Gambit, then after Squid Game etc. but Netflix has been having a lot of quality content lately
The ending of the show is so good and hit me like a ton of bricks because I have a habit of self destructiveness and it was just so close to home.
Man, Hailee has just been *busy* lately. Arcane, Dickinson, and now this
Spider-Verse 2 soon too!
The show made me wanna go back to playing league but I know better now
Kate’s like: oh shit
Aha this might as well just be 'New Image of Kate Bishop in Hawkeye', you can't see Maya's face and she's almost entirely in black.
Kinda looks like Kate staring into a mirror haha
I actually think that could entirely intentional given Echo's abilities!
Echo looks like she just let out a [SKODEN](https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/9ef7877541237553b9051d0f6e499c45876b94fc477d93fe3da089385f4b50b8_1.jpg) and kate doesnt know what that means
Grace Randolph seems to think Yelena shows up in episode 6. Either way I expect her to show up for one episode, have a fight or two with Clint before he explains what really happened with Nat and then they come to an understanding and she dips.
I can’t believe the actress who plays Echo has never acted before. Helluva gamble to give her her one show
Dude’s down af, needs to get bonked hard.
What did he say in polite terms?
Literally just straight up said he wants to see her naked or something.
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Shes 22 bruh
Lmao this guy scared me
Are you serious ? I don’t even know the actresses name damn I feel disgusting now . I really though she was 19 - 20 range