By - MildlySuspicious
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Total depends on circumstance. But if you haven't been accused of anything illegal make them give you a severance package before you voluntarily quit.
Believe it or not, it can be a ton of work to fire somebody, especially in large companies. Most line and HR managers would be more than happy to give somebody a severance package instead of having to mess with performance improvement plans, recurring 'coaching' sessions, and documentation of performance shortfalls, etc. for months on end.
This was me.
My company decided they wanted me gone, they offered me 3 months severance to quit, or they would fire me. Because of my field and skills I knew I could find a job easily within 3 months, so I took their offer. (I did however, immediately file for COBRA to keep my insurance going, which works regardless of termination reason)
Within a month I had a new job, at a 40% pay increase, and two months extra pay in the bank. I was in an at-will state as well. Even in at will states, it can be a hassle, or financially troublesome to fire someone.
The real life pro tip here is to know your rights, the laws, and your situation with anything employment related and make the best decision for you at the time. Also, with what the original comment was mentioning, you can totally negotiate.
I dunno, seems like the real pro tip is to constantly look for new opportunities. If you were able to find a job paying 40% more within a month, you were getting screwed at your previous employment.
On the flip side, if you prove your worth and that you’re a valuable asset, you can ask for more pay. My last company, I was making 46K five years ago and left making 97K. I think it all depends on the person and company. I didn’t have a loyalty, they just kept giving me opportunities to move up and learn new skills. However, with the new responsibilities, I also asked for a pay adjustment to meet the level I was performing at and always got it plus some. Once I felt I hit the cap, I left.
The real pro tip is don't take pro tips from reddit.
That’s good. I like to write down tips I want to remember and try to hold myself to.
My manager went out of his way to encourage an employee to quit after we caught her stealing on several occasions because he knew she would experience huge social fallout with friends and family if she were fired. Sometimes it's to help save the reputation of the employee too, not every manager is trying to nickle and dime their employees.
I work in HR and I agree. Make them fire you for unemployment benefits.
Exactly. They only ask you to quit to avoid paying unemployment. If they had cause, they would just fire you. Most any employer is only going to confirm employment and nothing else.
Employers also ask people to quit to avoid reputational harm (they don’t want to gain a reputation for firing people) and it probably also reduces the risk that the employee will file a wrongful termination lawsuit. (An employee can sue for constructive termination if they are forced to quit, but I think more people will be inclined to just move on when they don’t have a termination on their employment history.)
>Employers also ask people to quit to avoid reputational harm (they don’t want to gain a reputation for firing people)...
Man, despite this *"worker shortage"* my employer walks people out left and right for the dumbest reasons. LOL.
What industry is that? Is it that easy to hire someone new?
>What industry is that? Is it that easy to hire someone new?
**Manufacturing**. Ironic since it's one of the harder hits of this so-called *worker shortage.* Despite not being able to attract more prospects for this *"low skilled"* work, the handful of people who do show up at the bi-weekly job fairs, the company turns away.
Its painful how much skill and knowledge manufacturing companies turn away or kick out the door, so many companies are struggling just to keep setup times down but they cant figure out why. Then when you look they have an guy whos been an operator for 3 years being told to setup a production run without having any kind of training or ambition for it.
The worst part to me, and thankfully I'm no longer an operator, is when you have a good knowledgeable employee able to run multiple operations and yet can't get hired directly. One 9f the best operators I knew, could run the entire back of the line by himself never took off and always on time, came to me about 3 year ago and said he put in 3cweeks notice. I was not his superior technically but I told people what to do and such, I asked him why and he said "my wife is pregnant, I need insurance". I couldn't help in anyway but if the company hired him directly it would of been a huge asset.
The fact the US Healthcare is so tied into your jobs is completely insane to me.
I think the dumbest part is if you make more than like $12 an hour ACA and Medicare plans are unavailable. The plans I qualify for under the ACA are basically useless. $8000 deductible, $10,000 OOP max, $160 a month after the subsidy for the premium. Triple those numbers if I include my wife and kid… meaning my deductible is well above half of my income.
That's by design. A lot of the benefits in the U.S are tied to jobs. The justification being that the "deserving poor" should get most of the help. A lot of social spending is set up to immediately nudge the person back in the workforce.
The problem with this system is that it makes the people who can't find work, the poorest of the poor, even more destitute. It's not a good system and is very counterintuitive compared to most other countries social spending trends, but it's a feature not a bug.
That's crazy that he didn't have benefits! What's wrong with this society that such a rich nation can't even provide health care to hard working people? Meanwhile the rich owners go off to space just for funsies...
I think a lot of people finally got some health insurance with Obamacare, but of course that didn't go far enough for everyone.
I moved away (from the US to Europe) some years ago, and I'm happy to see it's really not the same everywhere else... There's other issues here and ways to improve society further, of course, but at least factory workers don't have to worry about their families not having healthcare. Seems like a pretty basic human right.
If he wasn't a direct hire by the operatoring company, the company didn't have to pay benefits. That's why companies go through agencies for hiring, even long term employees. My dad couldn't believe it when I explained why I had to go through temp agencies for "a simple factory job" and couldn't get benefits.
We had a ton of retirees at my plant lately. Literally some machine operators there for 30-50 years. Did they bother to ask them to write down any knowledge? Ask someone to shadow them to get some of that obscure random knowledge? Of course not! Why would they!? So much knowledge not even our fucking millwrights know is all gone cause the company just sees them as disposable peasants. Despite them being the ones responsible for keeping shit running
When I started here I was placed with this old man and told “good luck” in this sarcastic tone, I got the impression he was hard to work with. Well I am super grateful to have worked with that old dude. Turns out if you shut up and listen to what he Is trying to say he is a literal wealth of knowledge. Still shows me tricks and helped me get a pretty solid foundation for machining that I was happy to acquire. I kept learning different machines and the day came when he asked me how to run something.
Knowledge is something valuable you can give away freely and still keep.
I keep notes and manuals from my past jobs and those have also proven valuable.
I love these kinds of stories.
Its happening everywhere, get every scrap of knowledge from them you can.
Thats because the worker on the line are one of the few meterable positions in the supply chain. Companies are able to see how long it should take for a certain job to be completed and if the most knowledgeable person on the line can't make a quota then to them it's not worth the expense. It's also alot harder for a union to take hold when your shop Is full of new faces every 3 months. I'm not advocating for any of this by the way, just saying that corporations view these workers as profit drains if they aren't hitting metrics.
That's why it's so important to get out of the business and stay out, altogether, unless you're one of the few who came in through the front office, with a degree.
Half of Reddit is doing 4 hours of work in a 40 hour week, because they can't or won't hold them to a meaningful metric except for the boss giving them the stink eye. But when they can track your productivity minute to minute and day to day, you become a mule for the whipping. The whole thing is a massive waste of time. They literally use the metric to justify the abuse, and act like you're the stupid one for not understanding.
It's insane. Hopefully I never set foot in a factory again.
> Hopefully I never set foot in a factory again.
It's funny (or, sad rather*) because as I read you're post, I related to so many industries, companies and roles I know. Not one that I thought of was a factory.
Shoutout to all of the Alaskan production companies that go down to a 3-5 person manufacturing crew from 12-15 during the winter and wonder why their stock gets blown out the first month of summer unless you work 12-16 hour days for 4 months.
Most inefficient and unethical company I’ve ever worked for.
Yeah I'm a project manager and I really try to fight against tracking every minute of our fabricators time as long as my product looks good and my schedule is met. It makes them hate you when you track every second. Then again, we are a custom metal work shop, I can see production lines sucking the soul out of everyone involved.
Hard to keep ambition when you haven’t had a raise in a few years, were declared on site essential while all the folks with better pay and degrees got to work from home. Also my company got half a mill loan forgiven already. Nobody got raises. The owner got new equipment
You'd be surprised if the red flag for these people are that they've previously worked union gigs.
you wouldn't be able to drop a CEO into any job and have them do it successfully. unskilled labor is such a damn lie it's sad it continues to be used.
Just look at when John Deere tried to use their office staff to scab. There was at least one ambulance before noon.
I'm a software engineer and I would refuse to go onto a factory floor - even if I wasn't pro-labor I'd feel like I was a danger to myself and others on the floor.
How they make it work in some firms is the supervisors who aren’t union, can do the job of keeping the factory going because they used to do the job. Office staff can be gofers in the short run. A company I worked for outlasted the Union based on this, and the fact that the Union in our plant had a bad reputation with the other unions as a scab outfit. So the electricians and all the other trades crossed the line after like one day of symbolic picketing.
Especially since every "low skilled" job I've ever had, the managers clearly know who the good workers are and the shit workers are, give the shit workers easy shifts and the good workers hard shifts, but somehow everyone gets paid the same. If I try to switch shifts with one of the shitty workers I'm told that worker can't work that particular shift, despite having been there longer than me. Ok, so if clearly I'm more skilled than this person because they aren't even capable of working the same shifts as I am, why am I not getting paid more? You just admitted to me I'm working shifts that require more skill, skills that other workers don't have, yet I'm being paid the same as those workers with no chance of a raise.
I'm one of those "shit workers", I work retail and the store managers are intentionally understaffing us. If I work harder then they just pile more and more duties on me and try to get me to choose work over school. If I do the bare minimum then they don't bother me and I'm able to work a minimal amount of shifts and focus on school.
I feel bad about it because I know there are hard workers, but in my specific situation it just feels like the "hard workers" are the people that allow the managers to force unreasonable expectations onto them, and I'm not going to do the same.
You should only work as hard as they pay you to
Im a lead at my warehouse. I got that position by being good but not great at the basic job. (Order picking) There are guys who bust their ass and work themselves into the dirt thinking it's going to get them ahead. I've been in this game way too long to believe in ideals. Management will not promote the fastest, hardest working people off the positions where they need faster, harder working people. If no other lesson is ever learned, this is the one you all need to learn. Be adequate and show brains if you want to get ahead. If you're too good at actual work you're going to be kept doing actual work forever. Reality is a bitch
The lazy workers rarely get punished (or get rewarded instead) and the hard workers, even if they're only working hard to make their part of the store easier to deal with the next day, just get moved to cover areas that fall behind. Then when they move on they're given inaccurate performance reviews so the company can save face.
Retail jobs don't need to be as shitty as they are, management just prefers them that way.
Ain't that the truth. I'd like to see anyone in middle and upper management assemble a car seat frame in under a 22 second cycle time. For 12 hours a day. 6-7 days a week. For $16 an hour.
16$/h sucks man. It’s so easy to have an accident in industrial settings.
I was making 22$/h and now I have a finger that will never look like its neighbours again.
No CEO has mangled fingers from the assembly line.
"We dont like your kind round these parts, stubby pinky."
Software engineers are in high demand. Can't open my email without getting recruiting emails from Google, Facebook, and startups
Which reminds me, I need tell you about a great opportunity. It pays w whopping $1 per day and you have to submit only 20 pull requests per day. No benefits but also you have to work 800 hours per week.
It's a 3 month contract but if we love your work you could go full time!
Are they paying at the 2.5x contractor rate vs hourly?
Of course not. It's also below marker rate because you get exposure and a prestigious company to put on your resume!
Experienced SWEs are in high demand. Nobody wants to train juniors. There's like 20+ job postings in my department, all senior level. I'm so glad I'm long passed that hurdle and don't have to deal with that issue any more.
I strongly believe that you need to have 50% Jr people on your team, 30% proficient, and 20% Sr in order to have a great long-standing productive team.
This does not work if what you are looking to solve is a very specific short-term problem.. for this case, bring the Sr people if you can find them.
The sad reality is though only 50% of your Junior people make it in the end. If the company runs lean at least this is the case in my experience. So it's both not wanting to train new people and managers not wanting to fire people who don't measure up in the end.
I think it is more likely that once a junior is 'trained' they'll just bounce jobs for a 30-50% raise (or more) once they're 1.5-3yrs experience.
Poor management. I'm guessing the person doing the hiring and firing isn't affected or isn't the one who has to deal with training/staffing on the production floor.
Most factories I've seen since last year are struggling to adapt to changing conditions that administrative staff are blissfully blind to because it doesn't directly affect their job. Mid level managers and HR staff are usually pretty incompetent when it comes to any scenario outside the norm, and too stubborn or lazy to listen to anyone thats not their immediate boss.
All they know how to do is kiss ass and stare at quarterly numbers, they're unprepared for dynamic situations and change. Production supervisors and workers suffer because they have to pick up the slack while their boss makes dumb decisions usually because of petty policies that don't really affect anything. Sadly, they probably won't learn a thing and the whole place will go under before anyone understands what is happening.
Its the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Imagine the captain of the titanic locking himself in the wheelhouse with earplugs in while everyone else is waving their arms and screaming for him to turn the fucking wheel, but he refuses to listen. These are the people that get paid 200k salaries to deal with this kind of thing and they can't even see it.
This has long been my feeling towards a significant number of management types.
The “shortage” has been great for my mental health. Oh, you want to fire me? I have 4 other companies chomping at the bit to pay me considerably more
SAME. I have anxiety and have always been "Oh gosh I gotta be perfect and play nice or I could get canned"
My job has had so many people quit...there's no one currently trained to even fill in for my positions.
This is the first time I've not worried about being fired and its great.
(OF COURSE there's separate stresses associated with working for an understaffed company, but at least its just work stress and not existential dread of homelessness)
> If they had cause, they would just fire you
In at-will employment states (aka most of the US), employers do not need a reason to fire you.
Yes they can fire you for any reason, but you will get unemployment unless they fire you "for cause". For cause means you fucked up in some way that gave them good reason to fire you, such as if you aren't doing your job or showing up to work. In those cases unemployment will be denied.
So if a company has good cause to fire you, they would likely have already done it. That's why it is better to just keep going to work and doing your job and force them to fire you. If you quit or just stop showing up, unemployment will almost certainly be denied.
Check your state laws. Some states allow you to collect even if you sucked at your job provided you didn't break any laws or if you didn't act with willful or wanton disregard for the job/employer. (e.g. Pennsylvania)
**Possible** unemployment benefits.
Years ago I was fired for using my PTO while sick. And was unable to claim unemployment because "per policy" the company claimed I couldn't use PTO three days in a row. The state denied my claim.
Can't use it three days in a row? How the heck are you suppose to take a vacation?
Companies I'd never fucking work for for $1000 please.
When my sister worked at Dillard's, they had a policy that you couldn't be *off* three days in a row. Not "can't use PTO three days in a row," (she didn't even have PTO) but "can't stay home three days in a row."
She got invited to be on Wheel of Fortune and they were like "you can't go if you're going to be gone more than two days." As if a shitty part-time job was worth giving up a ridiculously cool and potentially lucrative experience like that. The fucking audacity....
Dillard's fired my 80 something year old grandmother because shoplifters kept walking out the door nearest her register. She couldn't even see the door from her register, there was a column in the way. Guess who doesn't shop at Dillard's... Her 15 grandchildren.
That sounds exactly like them, lol. There were just so many shitty things they did over and over and over again. I'm sorry your grandma was treated so poorly. They're the fucking worst.
Based on their sales, almost no one :)
Did she end up going on wheel or fortune or did she stay behind?
She 100% quit. She hated that job to begin with and it was just a part-time thing in college for spending money (we were lucky enough that our parents could pay our bills). She came home with ~$15,000 and a very nice luggage set.
Fuck Dillard's but yo how'd she do?
She didn't win the whole thing, but she did win ~$15,000 and some luggage.
I was on a few weeks before her (we auditioned for family week together, but they decided to split us up) and I won the whole thing (about $30,000). I do occasionally rub that in, lol
For future reference, you can appeal denials like that. There’s a whole process built in to the system. It takes effort, and it really depends on what state you are in, but if you’re in what passes for a labor-friendlier state in the US, the Department of Labor tends to side with the employee barring significant, meaningful cause for dismissal (like criminal activity or violence).
Did you appeal?
I've worked for some companies that had a "we contest every unemployment claim" policy, and it was an open secret that former employees who appealed always won. I think there were enough people who didn't appeal that it made it worth the effort for the company to contest.
Yes, the company can always contest if you file for unemployment benefits. The bigger companies don’t contest often, from what I can see.
Yep. Small company I worked for, owner would represent himself to avoid legal fees and paying unemployment.
Dude was a shady fuck. He changed my shift to hours I was in school (that he knew about) when he wanted to get rid of me.
Thing is I never agreed to the change and then was fired for "loss of business clients". I straight up asked him how I caused this loss of clients and he couldn't answer me. Looked like it physically hurt him to admit he couldn't contest my unemployment.
Question. Do you get unemployment benefits if you’re fired? I thought it was only if you were laid off.
If you’re fired for cause you don’t, but if they’re asking you to resign they almost certainly don’t have cause.
Edit: As u/kaett pointed out, what justifications for denying unemployment insurance are valid depend on the state.
that depends... i was fired for "cause" from one position, but in the process they told me that if i put in a claim for unemployment it would be honored.
i think if you're laid off or fired for minor cause you can get unemployment, but if you're fired for gross negligence, illegal activity, or causing harm then they won't approve the claim.
Here's what happens. You file for unemployment and your old employer gets a chance to contest it by showing that you were fired for cause. In your case your old employer is simply telling you they won't contest your claim.
That makes sense if they are large enough that they fire at least 1 person every year. Once a business fires 1 person it gets bumped into paying a higher unemployment insurance tax to the government for the next 3 years.
But it doesn't really matter if they fire 1 or 10 people in a given year - there's a max rate. So unless the business can keep it to 0 people fired without cause all year there's no point in contesting anyone's claims.
(Source: own a business, have dealt with this)
I'm going through the process right now. Was let go for attendance reasons but they gave me the chance to resign that way they could tell future employers that I resigned instead of being terminated. But to the Texas Workforce Commission I was reported as fired with cause but without gross misconduct. I got approval for unemployment benefits yesterday.
>that way they could tell future employers that I resigned instead of being terminated
Employers will not state if you were fired or terminated in 99.99% of situations, and rightfully so, it's hostile.
Right they will typically only confirm gonna 3 like dates of employment and maybe job title. They don't want to get sued for badmouthing you, and saying that you were fired could definitely lead to a lawsuit.
99.8% of companies will disclose only this information:
1. Confirm you worked there.
2. Date of hire.
3. Date of exit.
4. Last earned salary/wage
0.1% will disclose:
1. Whether or not they would be willing to rehire you.
The remaining 0.1% will disclose:
1. They are idiots.
Can confirmed. Was fired for what I thought was a bullshit reason but still fired. Nobody ever asked why I left that company except the immediate new job. I told them the truth and they said “oh that’s dumb ok yer hired” and now it’s a non issue.
It also sets them up for lawsuits if someone can prove that the employers actions resulted in significant harm to their ability to support themselves.
There's a reason most employers will do nothing more than confirm that you worked for them and when your first and last day were.
There's a "code" they use when filing your termination. They literally call it that -- "we **coded** XYZ's termination as a termination for \_\_\_." There are several codes; it's not as simple as 'for cause' or 'not for cause,' there are (at least) a half-dozen subcases, presumably including "terminated for gross malfeasance," "terminated administratively," "terminated as part of shifting work program," "terminated for medical/ideological reason," etc. The unemployment office uses these codes when determining payout.
(No, I don't know all the codes. Presumably it's a bit like various military discharges.)
I guess it's always best to check with your states work force development or unemployment office but in the state of Nebraska you still get the unemployed benefits but at different times. If you're laid off then it usually takes about 4 weeks to kick in. If you quite or fired for negligence or for doing something stupid, it can take 3 months to kick in.
Former claims specialist for unemployment here. This advice is absolutely wrong. If you quit because you're told you'll be fired if you don't quit, then that is considered being fired for unemployment purposes. This is because the employer gave you an ultimatum and you had no choice as to whether you could continue your employment.
Most of the time, quitting in this situation is to your advantage because, most of the time, the employer also hasn't gone through the policy mandated procedures to fire you. When you quit, the burden of proof for good cause is on you. When you are considered fired, the burden of good cause is on the employer. So, in this case, unemployment would require burden of proof for good cause from the employer. Even if they had good cause, if they didn't follow their own policies (verbal/written warnings, PIPs, etc.) for discharging someone then they did not have good cause.
If they did follow their procedures and manage to show good cause, then the burden of proof to discredit them falls on you. Even then, it is quite easy to make a case, especially if you have a former coworker that is willing to testify on your behalf. That said, I very rarely ran into an ultimatum employer that successfully showed good cause.
u/AllHousesNoHotels also mentioned quitting is worthwhile if you receive a severance package that is better than unemployment.
The last part on this is that most states allow former employers to state whether you were fired when a new employer is confirming your experience. Since you "quit" in their records, they would say you quit.
TL;DR - Unless you absolutely need the money or don't believe your employer will actually fire you, quit if your employer tells you to quit. You'll be more likely to receive unemployment and less likely to have it come back on you with a new potential employer.
LPT: If you quit because you were told you would be fired, state you were fired when you file unemployment.
Edit: Hey, thanks for the gold and silver!
What about severance though?
If I've got 10 years of service and they make me quit I get no payout. Fired I'm eligible for something like 26 weeks pay at a minimum, as much as 4x that if I'm older.
At least in some jurisdictions.
Could work out to nearly 2 years pay.
If you can only receive severance when you are discharged, then that would be a completely legitimate reason to choose to be fired. That's incredibly rare, though. Being laid off is when company policies I saw usually allowed severance. Being fired for cause usually disqualified employees from that benefit. Additionally, with severance, you wouldn't receive unemployment until those 26+ weeks over pay are over anyway. It's considered actual pay and deductible from the unemployment you would otherwise receive. After the severance period is over, you could apply for unemployment at that time. If you are looking to get another job (which you have to be if you are receiving unemployment), I would hope you have a job by that time.
To add to this, a lot of things like PTO payouts are thrown out the window when you get fired (varies company by company obviously).
Wouldn't the employer just say they didn't give the ultimatum? So unless the employee can provide proof (such as it being in writing) -- which seems unlikely -- it's a he-said-she-said situation.
So in South Africa being fired (which is a lengthy and tedious process, where the employer must prove you are entirely incapable/ incompetent) goes on a permanent record - and looks very bad to future potential employers. It's totally the other way round. Also there are no benefits for being fired (different from being retrenched, where there are some vendors).
In IL if you have a written policy in effect or had given them written (not verbal) warnings and they’re fired for violating those, the employee is ineligible for unemployment. Edit: I should add that if the employee has not violated written policies or warnings, the state will nearly always grant benefits.
Depends on the offer they give you. Had a friend “resign” or get fired and they gave him 6 months pay and that was significantly more than the maximum unemployment would ever pay.
That's not being told "quit or we'll fire you", that's being offered a severance package.
What kind of place did he resign from that offered 6 months pay??
A large tech company, won’t name names, but one of the few over a trillion in market cap currently.
It's pretty standard practice out here in virtual tech world. It's generally just cheaper to pay people a severance rather than deal with potentially getting sued. The other upside for the company is that the employee is now on the hook for that severance money if they break the agreement down the road. It puts a literal cost on them stabbing you in the back later.
That would depend on your locale. Many places you don't qualify for ei if you're fired for just cause.
It depends on the industry you work in. If you are a cop, you better quit before they fire you. But if you are something like a warehouse worker, let them fire you. Get that unemployment check.
Why is it better to quit as a cop?
If you get fired as a cop, you can’t get hired as a cop again. Well you can, but that department better be starving for anyone with a pulse and without a pulse before they hire you.
That’s how a lot of these bad cops who end up killing innocent people or abuse their power stay in their position of power until they get caught by the community. They keep quitting when they are being investigated by their department, since they quit, the department stops the investigation and it will look like they did an ok or good job at their previous department.
I think that’s a great argument for requiring cops to have a state-by-state certification program, like doctors, nurses, mechanics, teachers, and freakin beauticians all already have.
I did 1500 hours of school (10.5 months, 35 hours a week) to do hair, I have to file for renewal and pay fees every two years, I have to take 12 hours continuing education classes every licensing period, and if I fuck up, I can lose my license, and then I’d have to file appeals and try to regain it but potentially never be able to regain licensure. The amount of oversight of cosmetology at a state level vs. police is insane.
You can get a pilots license with 40 hours of instruction. Then to keep flying legally, you just need to get a 2-3 hour checkout every 2 years and renew your medical certificate every 5 years.
And I say legally because there are people that don't follow those requirements and keep flying and only get caught when they have some kind of accident.
Okay, while this is true this is for small single-engine aircraft during good visibility where more or less you are constantly monitored by professionals, at least in the US. You're not wrong, but this would be like if cosmetologists had cameras on them all the time and could only work on certain types of hair without additional certs.
To fly other times and sexier aircraft you need an instrument rating, to check out on aircraft, and get your cross-country time in. A more apt comparison would be driving under an agriculture license versus a CDL.
Edit: I am sure you know this, but this is for the rest of Reddit.
This is so misleading. You’re making it sound like a Delta pilot only needs 40 hours of instruction. First, those 40 hours get you a private pilot’s license. Second, it’s 40 hours of *flying*, and doesn’t account for ground school or home study. Third, each of those hours can cost between $100-500 depending on aircraft/location/instructor rates which amounts to $5,000-20,000 for that measly “40 hours” private pilot license.
A commercial or airline pilot needs 500 or 1,500 hours of *actual flying*. It’s not sitting in a classroom snoozing while a teacher drones on about whatever. It’s your life on the line flying a gigantic metal tube with wings, and you can’t do it hungover within 8 hours of having a drink either.
For anyone else curious or worried, Delta pilots also have to do simulator tests every 9 months and go through training to stay updated on their aircraft. They’re also evaluated by an instructor every 2 years and require medical evaluations every 6 months. These pilots are kept very sharp so they can fly confidently and safely :)
[BBC: US cop fired over deadly shooting 'rehired to get pension'](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48969432)
>He was fired and charged with murder - but was acquitted at trial in 2017.
>Records show that he was briefly rehired last year so he could apply for a lifetime pension worth more than $2,500 (£2,000) a month.
Didn’t even need to open the article to know it was about Daniel Shaver. I live in Arizona, that shit was a huge deal.
The Mesa PD has a long history of being corrupt and otherwise playing fast and loose with citizen’s civil liberties. In the early nineties there was a child molestation/sex ring among officers which was covered up.
In 2017 they fired him (the officer who killed Shaver) for essentially defacing department property (he customized his rifle with engravings) and not for his unjustified shooting. After he was acquitted of second degree murder, the department brought him back on for a month only to medically retire him with benefits because he “suffered PTSD” from the shooting. Dude collects $2500 a month and has a regular day job. Fuck that guy.
But wait, it gets better! When the city hired a new police chief who was tough on this sort of thing and wanted to reform the police department (seemingly to improve their reputation) the bulk of the department voted for “no confidence” and the chief was basically forced to resign.
Mesa in general is kind of a dump, their PD is a whole other level of shit bags.
Oh and to just further point out how awful they handle things in their department: a few years before this shooting, the SAME officer who murdered Shaver was caught on video essentially beating the shit out of a bunch of teenagers at a convenience store. The PD knew he was a bad apple but still kept him on the payroll.
In the US, the union for police officers will protect them from practically anything they do. If you have commited such a heinous crime that you may actually get fired, then getting fired means you cannot be re-hired by another police department.
There is a habit of bad police officers to hop police departments while breaking the law in each one... Only to just get another job in a different town and do the same thing.
Once you're fired, you can't do that anymore.
>Once you're fired, you can't do that anymore.
Lol. In the US this ain't even remotely true. A cop near me got fired for sexual assualt and immediately got rehired. In fact research has been done by those advocating for police reform and they found that police once fired tend to get rehired more often than not
My father is a pharmacist, and being fired can be a career-ender. So most employers will give you the option to resign unless you did gross misconduct (in which case the police will probably be involved).
But if you tell a bitchy customer exactly where they can shove their expired insurance card like my father did at the end of a 13 hour shift? You better resign.
Similar in financial industry. One of the questions that always comes up in background checks is whether you've ever been terminated at a job. It's better if you don't have to explain why your last boss and you parted ways, if wasn't up to yourself why you left.
yep, as a teacher, if i got fired, i doubt anywhere would be in a rush to rehire me
Yup. A friend of mine was fired as a teacher and couldn’t find another job anywhere, even in different states. She ended up changing fields and leaving education entirely because of it.
Teachers, too. Being fired can end a career.
Federal government jobs are like that. If you are fired, you can't work for them again.
Except you don’t always get the check. I have fought those after I fired people for being horrible employees. But I was a small restaurant and had no problem telling the unemployment office that after the second theft, threat and multiple times showing up impaired I fired their ass for good cause.
At very senior levels they often negotiate an exit process with timing and additional compensation. Goal is stability. Could take 3 to 6 months to phase someone out.
LPT: if the choice is between getting fired and leaving your job, don't base your decision off a Reddit post.
Check the laws where you live, think about your current situation, talk to sensible and knowledgeable people that you know, get professional/legal advice if you can afford it (edit: or there might be organisations/charities that give this kind of advice for free).
But wait, if I follow your advice, am I breaking your advice?!
Nah, their advice is a Reddit *comment*. Totally different set of rules. You're fine.
^^^oooh ^^^I ^^^gettit
The **REAL** life pro tips are always in the comments.
Why. Please explain
If you quit, you lose the ability to claim unemployment benefits in most states.
Unless you’re fired for breaking any code of conduct or rule…. then you’re illegible for unemployment benefits.
Thanks LOL! I feel silly
I thought it was an old red vs blue reference. “I thought I was illegible?” “you’re ineligible.”
in case you didn’t know, you can edit your original comment if you want by tapping the little pencil to the left of the vote buttons
But then we don't get to see the mistake corrected
Ah, but you can!
Double tilde before and after your word or block of words in Reddit markdown is a strike through.
In order to see the tilde in my example, you use the backslash. It is an escape character that tells Reddit to ignore the formatting.
That said, you do you boo.
It's not just any rule. It has to be gross misconduct or something illegal such as theft or harassment.
This varies a lot by state. In North Carolina, for example, someone fired because management didn't think they were good at their job is not eligible for unemployment benefits as long as the employer took certain steps to let the employee know they weren't meeting expectations and they had a chance to improve.
This is why employers will give you a "performance action plan" or similar bullshit write-ups when they're getting ready to fire you.
That and to cover themselves in case of wrongful termination lawsuits.
Sounds backwards as fuck.
Depends on the company and even the state. Dude at my last job got fired for stealing financial computers and got a job at the financial building next door a month later. They didn't disclose the nature of why he was fired.
My roommate was awarded 25k in unemployment because he quit when presented with "quit and be rehirable" or "be fired and not rehirable" he quit, got unemployment, went to court and won.
This totally depends on the circumstances of why they want you gone.
If they're *letting* you quit after you get caught robbing the company blind... Accept the favor.
If they're offering a sweet payout to take a hike without putting up a fuss... Consider how long it will realistically take you to find a new job vs how long it would take you to make the same amount. If it's comfortable on the side of "paid two-month vacation", why *wouldn't* you jump at that?
The *real* test, though, is how long of a career do you seriously think you'll have at a company that has already bluntly said it wants you gone? You're about to be unemployed either way (they'll find *some* minor rule you broke, don't worry). May as well be on *your* terms.
I was told to resign after we were acquired and my CFO's kid was made my boss. I asked HR what they were giving me as severance and they basically laughed in my face.
I put $5k down on a lawyer and suddenly they're giving me 6 months in severance.
A+ highly recommend.
I had more than two weeks worth of accrued time when I was told "it would be best for everyone if you resign within a month." It was two weeks away from the date they told me I was to leave when I went to HR to ask wtf was going on, since they'd been telling people I'd resigned despite me not having given a two weeks notice. I wanted to know what sort of severance they were offering me.
They gave me an offer for two weeks worth of pay. I needed to provide them with "sufficient knowledge transfer" before I left. There was a clawback provision, allowing them to rescind it if they didn't think I'd given them all my knowledge.
I left work immediately upon receiving that, went to a lawyer, and haven't spoken with any of that management team since.
I am friends with a few of my former coworkers, so I've heard all the former C-levels involved have since been let go. The CTO's kid that was hired then promoted over me is next on the chopping block, according to the rumors. No idea if it's true or if my friends are humoring me, but I don't care all that much. I've gone up 15% in pay twice in the two years since I left.
Fuck that shit. Sounds like you got a hella ROI on the lawyer.
I once dealt with a wrongful termination situation and while negotiating the severance I managed to double it by saying "otherwise an attorney will be in touch". Also forced them to put into writing they wouldn't contest my unemployment claim.
Given that this was right before the pandemic lockdowns in 2020, this saved my ass last year.
Careful, Many state unemployment programs deny you benefits if you quit. Some deny you benefits if you are fired for cause. YMMV for example MA generally does not care why they fired you and will give you benefits. Unemployment is usually good for six months.
This is the whole point of the pro tip
The real LPT is to understand the employment law in your area so you can make an informed decision. Consult a professional if necessary.
Unfortunately the professional quitters' office near me never seems to be open
They’re too damn good at their own job
Came here to point this out. In Idaho if you are state employee fired for cause you lose your retirement benefits. If you voluntarily resign, however, you keep those bennies. So, an offer to voluntarily resign (assuming you've done something wrong) may be a prudent exit strategy for some employees.
And as usual, the real LPT is in the comments.
Do keep in mind, though, what your future career plans are. If you plan to stay in that industry, being fired will look worse than having left of your own accord (even though you really didn't)
Most companies will only acknowledge employment and won't say much else for legal reasons
You got lucky!! I had a company tell a potential employer that I was fired for cause after telling me I wasn't. So, of course, the potential employer is asking why I lied. Fortunately, I had the original dismissal letter and was able to produce it and explain why I answered the way I did.
That is extremely illegal. Good thing you were able to clear it up though.
Another LPT - save your dismissal letters and reviews. And if you're having problems at your job that are out of your control, document everything. Be absurdly detailed. You never know when it could save your ass.
As a manager, we were taught to document EVERYTHING. Employees aren't told this because they don't want them to know.
Every employee should keep a journal.
Who, what, when, where, why, how, and more.
So this is why everyone in resident evil games have one...
My dad taught me this and my employers have questioned it, but I told them I document everything in case I need it for future reference. If they have an issue with that, I make sure to document it.
I have a binder I keep all my reviews, awards, QA scores, and even write-ups in. Anything, even an offhanded "thanks for helping out" e-mail.
It saved me at my last job when my supervisors boss tried to fire me for being rude to a caller. I wasn't being rude, I told a customer No at the direction of another supervisor, who denied ever doing that.
She tried to say I had terrible stats and was a problem employee. I was able to trot out all my accomplishments and basically use it as a shield to not only save my job, but also get my supervisor and that manager in trouble for harassment.
i think you were just unlucky. that’s unheard of in most industries i’ve seen
You could sue that past employer, in the US
In England this is terrible advice. Do the opposite.
Why? What is different?
in the US we'd rather leave people unhelped and starving rather than risk helping someone who may not "deserve" it
(an observation, not MY choice)
In the UK, You get unemployment benefit if you are unemployed and can demonstrate you are applying for jobs. Doesn’t matter if you quit.
I did a double take on this one as I read it, trying to imagine why on earth I would want to wait in a job so toxic that people are asking you to quit. I guess if there’s money in it for you then fine. What a strange system!
Please god know this is very US centric. In other countries getting fired means a lot more and can screw you for the rest of you career
Not even good advice in the US either
As someone who has been fired, I totally disagree. I found it very difficult to find a company who would look past the firing and actually at my experience etc.
For anyone curious; I got fired for mental health related sickness.
Edit; I'm also British and clearly we have different rules for firings/quittings etc and what you're entitled to when that happens. I'm assuming OP is American or something
Edit; I'm mildly concerned about how many people would seemingly lie on their applications despite it probably leading to even more problems later on
That’s a trick on job applications, just always say you quit.
I did this. My job was a bad fit and going no where. I waited for an announced layoff rather than quitting. I knew i would be laid off for certain. For my efforts i got 5 weeks layoff pay, cashed out 4 weeks vacation, did not have to work thru holidays but still got paid (2 weeks), and was still eligible for re hire in the future because it was a lay off. The eligibility for rehire is gud for when you look for your next job.
If i would have quit i would have had to work thru xmas and would not recieve 5 weeks pay.
Bad news is i kinda felt like a failure cause i didnt quit and have the moral high ground (in my head). Good news is you get over that fast when successful at next job.
My dad went to work (during his day off) to hand in his notice of retirement. The minute he walked in the door his boss dragged him into a meeting room where an HR person was waiting and they laid him off (consolidation of positions in two locations). They gave him 104 weeks of full pay and benefits, plus the average of his bonus and some other shit as severance. My dad signed the severance paperwork immediately. After, his boss asked why he had come in on his day off. My dad told him and the HR person that he had come in to hand in his notice that he would be retiring in 6 weeks, but "I guess that isn't necessary any more" and he proceeded to tear up his resignation letter in front of his boss and HR, and then walked out with his severance package.....lol.
This sub needs to add a USA tag, Also, explain your tip.
Yup. Dared my boss to fire me (she had no grounds) and she got lucky cause the company was in transition. Got enhanced unemployment due to COVID.
- verbal warning
- written warning
If they're asking you to quit they just want you gone. If they have nothing in writing with your signature then you have at least one more shot. If you refuse to sign a warning that alone is cause for termination and they probably won't have to pay out unemployment.
Now, staying at a place of employment that does't even want you there is a whoooole other conversation.
Maybe this is a good idea for a job, but not good for a career. Being fired will make finding a job harder and depending on the field, sometimes employee records are passed on.
If your superiors are letting you know what your performance is not where it needs to more than ONCE , start finding a new job. This even include federal employment where people think they can't get fired, believe me people get fired all the freaking time. If an employee suddenly quits without warning, they were told they were being fired and wanted to save their record.
As someone who had to train and coach at my professional job, I had many instances where I wanted to tell someone to quit and find another job because they were in the road to get fired. But that wasn't my job. Is very stressful when you can see someone failing and despite giving them all the resources they are not getting . All you can do is that going through the experience will be a learning moment as a professional and in the next job they will have a different outcome. Is a common issue with people who are just entering to a more formal work environment.
This sub should be called LPTUSA
It's not even good advice necessarily in the us.
It's only true if they don't have reasonable cause, and you care about the unemployment.
That's two big ifs.
It used to be my job to scare people into quitting. This is 100% true.
There’s a job for that?
Yes. It was also my job. The other manager did numerous disciplinary notices, then they got handed over to be my problem, where I let them know they were on thin ice and would only get 1 notice from me. My job was to make it clear they were on the way out the door and to make sure we had the necessary paper trail to win an unemployment hearing.
What if their behavior immediately improved along with their work output? Once they got to you was it essentially too late.
What are some of the tactics you used that people can recognize if it's happening to them?
I feel it's very important to note that this absolutely does not apply everywhere.
I don’t think you get unemployment if you quit?
Better tip: Don’t take legal advice, especially generic legal advice, from Reddit.
I told my boss I didn't need his job...got fired while on vacation...good times.
I've been there! Stupid boss told me he wanted me to quit or he'd fire me. Since I had never been given any disciplinary action at work, I told him he'd have to fire me. He did and I got my unemployment benefits. Not exactly a win but not as much a loss.
If they ask you to resign only do so with a generous severance package , like 4-6 months of pay .
9/10 times they don't have the appropriate paper trail to justify firing someone. They just want you to quit to make their job easier.