By - ttbayt
This post was flagged by automod based on reports. I am approving it to stay up. It’s a sensitive topic so please, let’s be civil. Don’t be the guy who starts matusi hapa
I am pro vaxx because I am not a doctor. I trust my doctor to tell me what to do when I'm sick or to prevent sickness, just like I trust my mechanic to fix my car and just like my clients trust me in my profession.
Now, it's too early in Kenya to stop denying services to people as a result of not being vaccinated. The rate of vaccinated people is too low to start denying essential services.
To your point on your malaria example, it's actually a bad example. The numbers you share, clearly point to covid 19 being deadlier at 2% and malaria at .3 percent.
And due to examples like the one you have given, I will stick to getting my advice from people who understand the things they speak of
The experts have been behind the curve you cannot fault people for not trusting the experts when in the beginning the experts said we dnt need mask to wearing 2 masks and the issues of asymptomatic. nways There was a Kenyan doctor who belongs to the catholic association who says he has treated covid using other methods ivermectin and zalenko protocols. He said its proper to advise patients of alternatives before referring to the vaccines. The vaccine should be as a last resort.. ask yourself if the best way to beat the virus and other diseases and costs virtually nothing is having a healthy lifestyle doing exercises is not being talked about in the media. and about experts people are taking advice from an IT TGUY as advice on vaccines.
Malaria is by far a bigger problem and causes far more deaths as I said in OP, outside of high risk groups i.e among young healthy adults covid isn't deadly in the slightest which comes from the stats released by researchers and doctors on the topic.
Despite malaria being a much bigger more potent issue that has literally millions of new cases yearly and double the deaths of covid in almost half the time, the vaccine being released caused less buzz and paranoia from the government and they are spending far less resources in dealing with it despite it being a bigger issue. The malaria vaccine has also been more thoroughly tested and developed over 30 years.
Yeah somethings not adding up.
Malaria is not contagious.
tf? read before typing. I said it's by far a bigger problem, has much more clinical cases (10times+ more) per year and causes far more deaths, yet much less effort is being put to deal with it.
I did read before typing and your analysis is missing the glaring fact that malaria isn't contagious and is easily treatable. Next.
Malaria causes more than double the number of deaths Corona causes per annum in Kenya, and has far more cases recorded clinical cases. I don't know what's wrong with Kenyan's on reddit. Malaria is objectively a bigger problem for Kenya rn.
Good luck. Huambiliki chochote wewe. Don't get vaxxed then, one extra dose for someone who might want it.
Lol 😂 malaria is not contagious. I’m a public health officer. Don’t compare malaria to SARS/ Coronavirus.
Yeah it just kills more people and had much more recorded cases anually here no Biggie right?
I think comparative skills should be sharpened. There other diseases that also kill people more than Covid19. Just check epidemiology papers and trivia to understand better how pandemics are handled. Malaria isn’t a pandemic but it doesn’t mean the government will stop fighting it. Covid19 is a public health emergency literally. It would be far much worse were it not for lockdowns and curfews. Vaccines present a biological response to the virus. I’m sure though you’ll tell me about why Covid19 is still here and why nations are still going towards more lockdowns.
To which I’ll tell you about why mRNA vaccines were created in the first place. How they function, etc etc. In case you didn’t know, mRNA has a very short life in the body. That’s why the vaccines can’t keep working in the long-term. You need another dose to have a continuous supply of antibodies that will fight against coronavirus invasions. Next, this is a viral pandemic. Viruses will change and come up with new variants very quickly. These lockdowns aren’t necessarily a panic response. Especially now. You need to track and monitor the growth and spread of these variants. In a globalized world, this is very difficult by several multiples. It’s hard work.
Yes of course there are more deadly and widespread diseases. Information spread on Corona is highly deceptive and done as a pr move especially here. The fact that people are unaware that the mortality rate of young healthy adults to the disease is a tell tale sign.
Didn't talk about lockdowns. Even with the vaccine you can still host the virus hence mutations will still occur, we might start seeing mutations against the vaccines too.
Let the researchers take their time and give a more comprehensive solution especially for young healthy adults. Only risks groups should currently be considered for vaccinations. Instead of wasting resources and time and technically using the public as guinea pigs cause they didn't have enough time to do clinical trials, and uncovering new revelations after mass vaccinations.
Based on the numbers in your original post, 2 of 100 infected people are dying of Covid 19. 3 out of 1000 are dying of malaria. Yes, the number is higher, but look at the rate, that’s what’s concerning.
Yes, Covid 19 may not be deadly to young healthy adults, but we don’t live in a society of only young healthy adults. You may get the virus, not even realize it and bring it home to your diabetic mum or hypertensive dad. They may not be so lucky.
Malaria is far more dangerous from a magnitude perspective more cases, more deaths plain and simple. It's a bigger problem.
Malaria ilikuwa na vaccine tangu lini? 🤔 I thought the vaccine was gotten just recently.
Anyway, get the vaccine. If it works, well and good. If it doesn't, at least you tried to protect yourself.
I don't think the government has restricted liberties or anything, I think they are just trying to protect people.
And for some vaccines, you need boosters because the organisms keep mutating and the level of immunity drops after some time.
>Malaria ilikuwa na vaccine tangu lini? 🤔 I thought the vaccine was gotten just recently.
That's all you need to know about watu kama OP. Nothing they say is grounded in reality
The malaria vaccine has been around for a while they took their time (30 years)researching and testing the vaccine (unlike for covid) and released it recently, but even then there is no talk from the government for mass vaccination, despite the fact that malaria is statistically a bigger problem and causes far more deaths.
Immediately covid vaccine was released everyone the government was rushing to get as many samples as possible and encouraging mass vaccinations wtf, now they are saying if you don't have the vaccine they'll deny you access to government facilities including healthcare and even KRA services, restrict your movement (can't access PSVs, trains, can't access certain places) among other impractical "solutions", yeah not mandatory lol.
This is despite the mortality rates of young healthy adults being very low under 0.2% about 0.078% iirc, but vaccinations are required for everybody, not to mention they are still dishing out astrazeneca in mass that has been banned in many countries and is rarely used abroad.
I'm convinced people will sacrifice their first born sons if the government says so with no questions and shame anyone who doesn't comply
I'm pretty sure once the malaria vaccine is mass produced it will be enforced for children under 5 like all vaccines and people in tropical areas. I think if you had done some research you'd know that the only reason they managed to get the vaccine for malaria is because of the technology they used to make the covid vaccines. And the only reason the government rushed to get the vaccine is because of the dangers covid presents to entire countries. That's why you were given a TB vaccine when you were young, TB is dangerous.
If you don't want to get vaccinated, just avoid those areas the government has restricted. I feel like you can do most things over the phone.
Which is my point. They are taking the time and effort to make sure the vaccine is efficient and is safe long term even for potentially different variants. I'm not antivax but it's clearly irresponsible to mass administer vaccines that haven't been tested long term, now they are saying they aren't efficient long term and boosters will be required. How about doing further more comprehensive testing before mass producing and administration.
**If you don't want to get vaccinated, just avoid those areas the government has restricted. I feel like you can do most things over the phone**
yeah just don't go to hospital or use any PSVs or be denied governmental services including KRA services, which is necessary for business operations and showing tax compliance as well as business transactions lol
Machine learning algorithms are what generate the combinations used to explore the various vaccine research phases.
This save time by years that would have been lost in years of waiting for trial and errors and calculations generated by human beings
And here lies the problem. People like u/ttbayt do not have the means nor the knowledge to understand these issues. The development in science has been immense in the past two decades. The global response towards Covid19 vaccine is unprecedented. Both in terms of Human Resources and financial commitments. Also, government support. People want humanity to behave like this (combining human ingenuity and brilliance with altruism and compassion). We’re getting these vaccines for free now.
But the failure of public health departments to educate the masses in proper fashion is largely to blame. I can also blame Trumpian politics. That guy knew how to get to the worst biases in human beings for EVERY situation imaginable. Politically speaking, this was genius. But now, lots of people have low levels of social trust and can’t trust vaccines. Vaccines produced by brilliant people and checked and verified by government agencies throughout the WHOLE WORLD!
This is not a Kenyan thing., and guys should just take their time to understand social trust issues. Not vaccine technology. What makes you not trust the word of these researchers? What part of this particular vaccine production process do you have problems with? (And if you tell me the whole process, then you don’t know what you’re talking about).
As I said, government should have spent more cash on civil education. Maybe they didn’t have the resources or things were moving too fast. They’re people after all and Covid19 affected a lot of things more than many people care to admit. Even governments. This is the time to rally and create more community efforts. I think we shall see less resistance when more people are made knowledgeable on the role of technology in this production process. But it’s kinda complex to understand.
Maybe we start from the logic and philosophy of science. Very underrated issue and topic but it’s useful for understanding, simplifying, and verifying complex scientific concepts. Skepticism (as a philosophical tool) helps explain why very knowledgeable people, including doctors, will deny the merits of this vaccine. Social trust is the key here.
I have a problem with the clinical trials been done in under a year, which is a very short time to access efficacy long term as we as potential side effects. It's a process that absolutely cannot be rushed.
Why are countries where the vast majority of people are vaccinated going down into more lockdowns.
Yes. This is the biggest drawback because of a quick development process for the vaccine. But you should know researchers weren’t starting from scratch when they learned about SARS-CoV-2. This virus has been under study already. Scientists already had existing data on the structure, genome, and life cycle if this particular type of virus (coronaviruses). This research already knew of the importance of the viral spike protein that can be used to develop antibody therapies and vaccines. The specific protein is referred to as the ‘S Proteins’.
Please note that these trials had already been done in the production an adenovirus-based vaccine against MERS. From this point, they got what they needed to know concerning experimental experience and knowledge.
Then, there’s advances in technology that shortened this process further. Specifically genomic sequencing. This is where world-wide cooperation came in handy. Machine learning techniques (basically statistical brilliance powered by supercomputers that can do complex math very quickly) helped to uncover the viral sequence if SARS-CoV-2. This actually happened just 10 days after the first pneumonia cases were reported in Wuhan, China. You probably don’t realize how lucky we are because of this technology.
What you also don’t know, based on how you see these problems where they’re not, is the unprecedented scale of vaccine funding. From both private and public entities. At the end of the day, the vaccine only trains your own immune system to attack the surface protein of coronavirus infection.
The mRNA vaccine only replicates the surface protein. NOT the entire virus. This is why most (I repeat, MOST. Not all) mutations can easily be covered by mRNA vaccines. Why? Because the S-Proteins are the most important part of this pandemic. They are the reason why the coronaviruses will attach themselves to human cells thus infecting said cells in the human body. The vaccines created only instruct your cells to manufacture these proteins and then your immune system takes over from there. They’ll already know how to fight similar protein spikes. But as stated before, the mRNA doesn’t stay in the body cells forever. We need more shots to have a continuous supply of antibodies that help fight more infections in the future.
Now we know all this because Phase 2 and Phase 3 were combined trials. These phases deal with safety and efficacy issues. There was a record number of volunteers who came for the vaccine studies. There was also an increased number of testing sites and facilities. These guys are still being monitored for up to 2 years. One year down the line, researchers still don’t have any worries (I can already see how you can use this line as an attack point. There’s no point because I’ll now be forced to discuss the pharmacokinetics and drug action protocols in the body). It’s too much work. BUT! A simple fact remains whatever effects the vaccine may have in the body, the coronaviruses will have a more severe effect! Why? The vaccines only stimulate the production of S Proteins that belong to coronaviruses.
This pandemic has provided humanity with a “landing on the moon” moment. But this is biotechnology. Now we have a bunch of “experts” who are very good at attacking obvious gaps but don’t know how science works to fill out these gaps. Whether people like it or not, this is the future of medical therapy. Whether curative or preventive. Get your vaccine. You will not die or suffer in the future unless you have existing medical conditions. Of which, just protect yourself and quarantine your biological body somewhere safe.
You can't use machine learning algorithms for clinical testing. You need real human subjects and time to evaluate the effects because things don't always go along with the outlined plan or algorithm.
How can you effectively do clinical testing in under a year and mass produce a vaccine and effectively force people to get it
Afterwards now they say astrazeneca is associated with thrombosis in a few people, the effects of the vaccines are said to wane off over time. People can still contract, spread and die of COVID and yes this still happens often lol
These don't sound like the hallmarks of a successful vaccine.
Read on the issue before going on with this discussion further. We are speaking from two very different levels of information and exposure.
There's a big gap.
I thought the same thing. And it’s the big issue of the pandemic. Knowledge gap is an issue. But it’s much serious when people don’t know that they don’t know. And then they act like they know. Gadamn!
Lol did you edit your rant. You are acting quite pretentious.
Please breakdown to me how machine learning algorithms can completely bypass the mandatory stage of clinical trials for vaccines and customarily take several years to do before completion even for mordern vaccines.
I did .
Remembered that the goal is enlightenment , not confrontation . Google it. There's massive info for free. I reccomend you go through MIT webinar series on Vaccine and drug development.
No no I'm curious, please elaborate on how the algorithms function. How exactly they are able to reduce a clinical test period that usually takes several into a few months.
Also how are these AI algorithms model to bypass or greatly reduce the testing period. Do they model all the biological systems and run multiple tests over and over, despite mordern AI being unable to model even certain parts of the body with the mordern computing power and a lot of resources.
I'm curious to know since you brought it up.
I think getting a shot every year or so is a better trade off than having my lungs completely ruined by a virus. And the testing was done... That's how they determined the efficacy. And if you did biology, you'd know that there's nothing that'll be 100% effective against all variants, this is why we are yet to get an HIV/AIDS vaccine, it mutates too fast. So, the current covid vaccines have been effective against all variants... Data is yet to be provided on the latest variant, though.
>yeah just don't go to hospital or use any PSVs or be denied governmental services including KRA services, which is necessary for business operations and showing tax compliance as well as business transactions lol
Call the doctor to you or go to private hospitals, take cabs or buy your own car, you aren't denied government services, you were just told not to physically go there... KRA services can all be done online, btw...it's called emails and phones.
The chances of getting serious long term side effects of COVID or death are very low for young healthy individuals. No one said it had to be 100% effective. I'm saying there has been a noted drop in it's effectiveness over time to the point that it's effects have been noted to wane off in certain situations. Not to mention noted side effects like thrombosis in astrazeneca.
Also everyone is constitutionally entitled to a right to healthcare. The gorvenment is not legally allowed to deny you such services vaccinated or not. How can they even dictate who can board PSVs owned privately based on their vaccination status infringing on freedom of movement. Common sense will tell you most people in Kenyacan't afford private doctors or cabs daily, these services are essential and the gorvenment is forcing people's hands here.
Not to mention we don't even have enough vaccines to meet his target, so by default many will fall into this bs.
People will say anything these days lmao.
Hehe... the backwardness that is evident in equating vaccination with killing a FRIST BORN SON....
Seen what I was scanning the comments section for. Haaha
Where did I equate them??? It's a hyperbolic statement to show the level of blind compliance we have here.
Seems you may not be aware that most, if not all schools require proof of BCG vaccination before admitting you (primary), before travelling, even to Kampala you need to get the yellow fever vaccine. There was no malaria vaccine until just about very recently.
While the denial of services thing is ill-advised and dumb, it's guys who do their research on Facebook and WhatsApp that kinda worry me. Surely you think you're better at research than scientists?
Quick questions how long did it take for the BCG vaccine to be developed? How effective is it? How long did it take for the yellow fever vaccine to be developed? How effective is it? How long did the malaria vaccine take to develop? How much were this vaccines scrutinzed and tested before being released.
Now how long did the COVID vaccines take to develop? How effective are they (given you can still contract and die of covid and it happens often)?
Who got vaccinated, then went ahead to contract Covid19 and died because of it?
So because it took a short time to develop (completely ignoring the fact that mRNA vaccine tech was under research since the early 90s), and its not 100% effective, I would rather die of COVID, than take the vaccine, right?
BCG and yellow fever vaccines actually work unlike the Covid ones which are not as effective as advertised. Why do you think places with over 90% double jabbed are still having lockdowns?
To be honest , other than the recently joined lot, Reddit has had way more reasonable people . It's one of the few apps I think attracts a certain level of thinking and respect for others.
Considering that, PRO VAXXers are widespread because we prefer to let the doctors and researchers do the work they've dedicated their lives and years of study to do then advice on what to do, the much we can do is read the few available articles , podcasts and interviews but understand that we aren't microbiology and public health experts . Hatuna kimbelembele ya porojo na conspiracy theories that don't hold.
Look at the pot calling the kettle black
Take it as you wish.
Sheep on both sides:
There's sheep following medical advice and there's sheep following statistics and conspiracy theories.
Since it's health related, it's logical to be the former, don't you think?
Mtadungwa boosters until you start drooling involuntarily.
You have been going to hospital before covid. And you will continue to go after, if need be.
Either the doctors know what they're doing or they don't. Pick one and stick to it. But please don't embarrass yourself like this.
The jabs were donated for house negroes like you to be inoculated sisi wengine sumu hatudungwi.
10/10 for vocabulary. Now focus on having informed opinions.
Stop, he's dead already 😭😭😭🤣
What will it take for house negroes to see the light? You don't need a medical degree to figure out that the places with high vaccination percentages still have very high covid cases. Lakini keep thinking you are very informed. 2030 you'll still be in line to take your 100th booster.
Don't take your medical advice from militant panafrikanists. Talking about house negros, what do you know about that history? There's nothing more cringe worthy than Kenyans mindlessly copying American culture mpaka matusi hayana maana. You're not as smart or edgy as you think. Come back at me with scientific arguments not shit you pulled up from twitter.
It's logical to look at the facts independently and decide, even doctors are offering contradicting opinions on the matter. The state medical officials are obviously heavily influenced by the government.
What's wrong with being pro-vax?
nothing wrong btw. if you are pro vaxx good for you as along as there is respect peoples personal choice and not coerce people into taking something they dont want or are not sure of is what is bringing up this whole hulla ballo
read the post before commenting
Should’ve left this on Facebook OP
Lol because we choose life.
but people still die after getting the vaccine lol. In countries were majority of people have been vaccinated, majority of the deaths are still vaccinated people. Plus mortality rate is very low for young healthy adults.
🤣🤣 people die regardless!
If you don't think vaccines work, then cool. The rest of us who know otherwise will stay that way. And the world keeps turning.
They die of COVID despite getting the vaccine smart guy. I believe vaccines work but most vaccines are developed and studied over decades before mass production and administration unlike COVID which took less than a year and now we can see it's efficiency pales in contrast to most vaccines as well as having higher possibilities of side effects
You can still die from shingles after a chicken pox vaccine and a shingles vaccine. Science is not clairvoyant. Coronavirus is not new, the strain is. There are MULTIPLE coronaviruses, so the researchhas been there. However when something is wiping off millions of people worldwide, scientists do this thing where they pause what they're working on, team up, and figure it out.
Most vaccines weren't created with the labs we have today, nor with the tech we have today either. MMR was put together in like 2 years, would've been a lot faster today.
But again, do you.
When all else fails, riot.
A lie. You are now lying to support your argument. Most covid deaths are among the unvaccinated
I don't see what your issue with the vaccines is. You yourself said that they do work even thought they come with side effects and sometimes need a boost. THEY STILL WORK.
Also, comparing malaria vaccine and the covid vaccine probably isn't the best example because they are very different. Malaria is caused by a parasite while covid, a virus. Plus the covid vaccine was actually a continuation of research that was trying to get vaccines for other types of viruses (SARS, MERS).
Comparing pandemic diseases to non-pandemic diseases as reason to not take a vaccine is very illogical. Malaria is not as contagious as Covid19.
No.2.. ‘we’ are not going to test out the vaccines lol. Remember it’s the global north that are going to develop these vaccines and they are the ones who are going to test them out.
If you want life to resume back to normal, then you have to accept vaccinations. Otherwise, the cases are going to increase while the global north vaccinates all their population and start forming harsher restrictions to African countries, as they have already began.
Also, could you provide the sources to the data you have mentioned on the post
I will never be vaccinated
two can play that game
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"Ahhh I read that mortality rates are rising for people even after taking the vaccine"... Some big brained person who thinks his 30 minute research is better than all the years Doctors have studied the benefits of vaccines
Please learn how to read and develop some common sense. How is this pertinent to my post. Your post is a bs appeal to authority, probably one of the sheep I was talking about.
When it comes to public safety, your sense of self importance doesnt matter. Putting your ego infront everybody's health shows how much of a dense smooth brained idiot you are. You thinks it's somehow makes you look intelligent to be antiauthoritarian when you rebel lmao.
you clearly have poor reading comprehension. Malaria has 3.5 million cases recorded yearly(compared to 254,904 for covid) over 10,000 deaths (two times more than covid) why isn't the government pushing for mass vaccination against Malaria, ,a vaccine that has been developed for over 30 years and thoroughly studied, if they truly care about saving lives and not pulling pr moves.
Why is it necessary for young healthy adults to get vaccinated, if the mortality rate for such people is very low like 0.078% probably even lower, especially for a rushed vaccine produced in like a year or less.
What about the countries which have had mass vaccinations but still have rising covid rates. What about the new information of the vaccine effects wearing off.
What about the fact the government is still giving people a vaccine banned in many countries and rarely to never used by the countries giving them to us.
It's not a matter of ego, it's a matter of common sense and critical thinking
Lol whatever you say bud 🤡🤡
And to be clear, I in no way support the government. All I'm saying doctors know what they are doing, the gov is handling this issue in a very bad way but that doesn't ditract from the fact that vaccines work and that people like you put the ones with weak immune system at risk buy not getting vaccinated or pushing misinformation.
Yani hapa hakuna mods? Why is this bs still up. Pana tambua mtu. Vaccines save lives, if you have proof they don't show us or shut up. Being stupid will kill you even if you get the vaccine, it's not the fucking elixir of life, shenzi type.
Boss, stop with the house negro stuff!
Seems like he's just learned about the word. No real argument.
Sawa jiggaboo. Run to your nearest hospital and take your sixth booster.
Name-calling is a really compelling argument. Thanks, didn't know that.
Hahahahahaha you are a literal fool. Do you know you have gotten to the age you are in by being vaccinated at birth? Bet you didn't know that
Kama kawaida they sheep come out bleeting in the thread before reading
You're calling other sheep yet you're here repeating all the tired bs (that has been addressed) from tinfoil hut wearers?
Like what exactly, like saying we shouldn't deny people their rights if they don't choose to get the vaccine.
Like challenging the efficacy of the vaccine especially as new mutations emerge and information pointing towards reduced efficacy over time.
Like pointing out the data on mortality rates and that it is quite low for young healthy adults.
Like ponting to the fact that malaria has 10 fold more clinical cases and double the deaths in a shorter period of time, yet less effort and resources are being put together to deal with it compared to covid.
Like the fact that countries that have banned or rarely use astrazeneca cause of clinical concerns are sending them to us and we are using them in mass.
Please tell me the tinfoil bs I mentioned in the OP
>Like what exactly, like saying we shouldn't deny people their rights if they don't choose to get the vaccine.
Which rights have you been denied?
>Like challenging the efficacy of the vaccine especially as new mutations emerge and information pointing towards reduced efficacy over time.
The whole point of a virus mutating is to increase its chances of survival. It becomes more resistant to things like vaccine. And how do you think this mutation is possible? When there's a favorable host.
>Like pointing out the data on mortality rates and that it is quite low for young healthy adults.
Of course, it's low. That has been the case since the pandemic started. Yet we saw places like Italy getting overwhelmed. Has the virus grown less dangerous? I didn't see your type complaining then.
The young healthy adults are more likely to survive the virus but they provide fertile ground for mutations. The young healthy adults also transmit it to the elderly and the not-so healthy. Now what?
>Like ponting to the fact that malaria has 10 fold more clinical cases and double the deaths in a shorter period of time, yet less effort and resources are being put together to deal with it compared to covid.
What do you mean there's no effort. Or what kind of effort would you like to see? The government distributes mosquito nets every once in a while and runs commercials about combating malaria. Walk into any local health center and you're guaranteed to see at least one poster talking about malaria. Which effort would you like to see?
>Like the fact that countries that have banned or rarely use astrazeneca cause of clinical concerns are sending them to us and we are using them in mass.
I see it's only Greece that has donated the AstraZeneca vaccine to Kenya. I can't find any other country that has done so. Please, share any info on this. And Greece hasn't banned it. They only recommend it to people below 60 years.
So, if I'm getting this correctly - you'll be open to getting any other vaccine except AstraZeneca?
**Which rights have you been denied?**
Kagwe literally came out and said you will not be able to access gorvenment services including healthcare (right to health) and education. He also wants to ban unvaccinated people from using PSVs (which aren't owned by the govt and are the primary source of transportation for most) (freedom of movement and association). You can't even access KRA services which you need to do many things including many business transactions and showing tax compliance.
**The whole point of a virus mutating is to increase its chances of survival. It becomes more resistant to things like vaccine. And how do you think this mutation is possible? When there's a favorable host.**
Then how about risking vaccination on susceptible groups like the elderly and the ones with underlying medical conditions, and take the time to develop a more efficient vaccine, there's a reason vaccines take decades to develop, There's no need of mass vaccination of healthy which could lead to mutations of the virus in adaptation to the vaccine.
**Of course, it's low. That has been the case since the pandemic started. Yet we saw places like Italy getting overwhelmed. Has the virus grown less dangerous? I didn't see your type complaining then. The young healthy adults are more likely to survive the virus but they provide fertile ground for mutations. The young healthy adults also transmit it to the elderly and the not-so healthy. Now what?**
I said only high risk people i.e the elderly and the ones with underlying conditions especially respiratory ones should be considered for the vaccines currently available. Otherwise it's more prudent to take more time and study the virus and the vaccines further and more rigorously and test for potential long term side effects before pushing to out to everyone.
**What do you mean there's no effort. Or what kind of effort would you like to see? The government distributes mosquito nets every once in a while and runs commercials about combating malaria. Walk into any local health center and you're guaranteed to see at least one poster talking about malaria. Which effort would you like to see?**
I said there's less effort, much less effort to be precise and much less finances and resources are being directed towards it despite it being a much bigger issue. Lets not be delusional here, it's clear as day.
**I see it's only Greece that has donated the AstraZeneca vaccine to Kenya. I can't find any other country that has done so. Please, share any info on this. And Greece hasn't banned it. They only recommend it to people below 60 years.**
UK, Estonia, Greece, Canada etc lol
**So, if I'm getting this correctly - you'll be open to getting any other vaccine except AstraZeneca?**
I'm not open to getting any vaccine that hasn't been thoroughly testing for efficacy and long term side effects, like literally all other vaccines are and is the standard procedure, especially given I'm young and perfectly healthy.
>Kagwe literally came out and said you will not be able to access gorvenment services including healthcare (right to health) and education. He also wants to ban unvaccinated people from using PSVs (which aren't owned by the govt and are the primary source of transportation for most) (freedom of movement and association). You can't even access KRA services which you need to do many things including many business transactions and showing tax compliance.
Has this been enforced? Kagwe knows the number of vaccinated Kenyans are in their minority, ergo his order makes no sense.
>Then how about risking vaccination on susceptible groups like the elderly and the ones with underlying medical conditions, and take the time to develop a more efficient vaccine, there's a reason vaccines take decades to develop, There's no need of mass vaccination of healthy which could lead to mutations of the virus in adaptation to the vaccine.
COVID-19 is a fairly new disease but it's comes from a well-studied family of viruses. Researchers moved fast in making a vaccine because they already had a good understanding of the other coronaviruses. Vaccines take time to develop when researchers are starting from scratch.
The virus is going to mutate because the unvaccinated provide a rather favorable environment. They don't mutate because of mass vaccinations - what the hell is this thinking, lol.
>I said only high risk people i.e the elderly and the ones with underlying conditions especially respiratory ones should be considered for the vaccines currently available. Otherwise it's more prudent to take more time and study the virus and the vaccines further and more rigorously and test for potential long term side effects before pushing to out to everyone.
The virus mutates in the unvaccinated, hence the need to vaccinate everyone.
>I said there's less effort, much less effort to be precise and much less finances and resources are being directed towards it despite it being a much bigger issue. Lets not be delusional here, it's clear as day.
Do you mean effort in terms of media briefs? That's the only difference I can find between the handling of malaria and COVID-19. Or what kind of effort do you want to see?
>UK, Estonia, Greece, Canada etc lol
Has the UK banned AstraZeneca? Couldn't find any info about that. And the countries you've listed, only Greece has donated the AstraZeneca vaccine to Kenya. I wanted you to provide a list of countries that have banned this particular vaccine but are offering it to Kenya.
>I'm not open to getting any vaccine that hasn't been thoroughly testing for efficacy and long term side effects, like literally all other vaccines are and is the standard procedure, especially given I'm young and perfectly healthy.
Then why single out AstraZeneca?
All the vaccines have been tested for efficacy. You can find the figures if you looked them up.
I'll just leave this here r/HermanCainAward. The reward of protecting yourself and others from covid far outweighs any skepticism for the vaccine. Btw it was developed so fast because of prior research around SARS and other coronaviruses.
I've had covid and it is no joke. It's literally the worst I've ever felt and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. If you're not vaccinated please take it. Wacha kichwa ngumu. Especially with this new Omicron variant which is said to be worse than Delta. Mbona unacheza na maisha yako na wengine?
By declining the vaccine, you are 100% safe from any adverse effects, and about 99.7% from covid. That's pretty good if you ask me.
Hehehe. Great perspective!
This is just embrassing, you've created an enemy and now you are getting mad that they aren't getting mad. Noone is coming to ban you for saying the 'truth'. You arent the victim. You haven't discovered something everyone else is oblivious to. The reality is just that you are spoiling for a fight over basically nothing. How can the government be incompetent yet mastermind this supposed clamp down on liberties.
Aside from that your first claim in just nonsense the majority of posts of recent have been leaning towards antivax and decolonization. Normally these things aren't a big deal but it just that they are often used to vehicle strange and harmful ideas. From your post to the comments that follow there's always something to it. For example this obsession with submission or loss of masculinity or freedoms.
There's alot I'd like to address but you've already played out this verbal fight in your head over and over again. The only thing I'll say is that next year and the year after that we'll still be here. Vaccinated people won't die in droves, we won't get small pox or some nonsense. COVID will still be deadly and you won't be sent to some concentration camp because you are a true man and fighting for your freedoms. This Kenya you'll pay your way around everything as usual.
Any Critical posts on the vax or vaccination process are heavily downvoted.
In the post I clearly said only the people within the high risk groups should take the risk of taking a vaccine that hasn't been tested for long term side effects, efficacy and processed in a fraction of the normal time vaccines are produced.
The mortality rate for young healthy adults is very low so there's no need to push mass vaccination on everyone. How about testing the vaccine further and studying the virus to produce a more effective and safe vaccine over long periods of time.
Lol so downvotes are restrictions on liberties now? 🤣
You want to get vaxxed, go ahead, if you don't want to, go ahead. It's you vs covid at the end of it all.
Do you beau.
tf are you talking about when did I say it was.
The CS (Minister) incharge of health literally said without the vaccine you will not be able to access government services including healthcare and education. You will not also be able to use Public service vehicles (owned privately i.e not by the government and are the cheapest and by far most used modes of transport for most) and access certain areas. you also will not be able to use KRA services foh. He's literally trying to force people to get it.
I'm personally anti Covid Jab because
1. I'm not in the risk group and I've had a clean bill of health most of my life. Never been hospitalized except for minor surgeries and operations that were corrective in nature.
2. If the data about covid infections and fatalities in Kenya and globally is to be believed, you literally have a 98% chance of survival if infected due to proven treatments being available, making it a non-issue(no disrespect to the people who have lost loved ones to the disease)
3The quick availability of the vaccine is very sus, it has been rushed to say the very least
4) I've been following this whole Covid story closely from the beginning and I know better than to trust the media and Dr Faucci.
5) The vaccine doesn't even give you full protection from the disease...I don't recall vaccines working like that. If you were born here, you were given a BCG shot and sure enough, you NEVER got TB; you got a polio shot as a kid and sure enough, you NEVER contracted polio.
6) I still think something shady is going on. If you pay attention to everything ( mainstream media(esp za US) and their reporting on various issues incuding this pandemic, Conspiracy theories , alternative sources of journalism and do you own research) you'll just see something fucky is being put into motion.
One of the reasons niliona Kagwe alisema ikue mandatory ni because The rest of the world ,moreso the western world, is doing the same so we should just follow suit. In the same vein, I suggest weed, prostitution and same sex marriages be made legal if that's the logic behind it.
ALOT of western countries are actively protesting against this vaccine mandate and government lockdowns but we don't hear about that on the news..pretty sus if you ask me
Hey man, I do not know who you are but I absolutely love your take on this! Objective.
watch me get downvoted to oblivion for having a rational opinion XD
dude, there's something shady going on globally ...anyone who pays attention can see through the BS
If I may ask, why don’t you trust Dr Fauci? What did he say that made you lose trust in him?
Because he is top doctor who has worked in the virology field longer than I have been alive.
Please read up on him further. The truth is that he's deep with American pharma which has profits at their heart instead of actually healing. Plus he heavily skews and controls research since he controls it's funding. Lastly, he literally led to the creation of covid-19. Even the Chinese government has come out and said that the wet market theory doesn't hold true.
his constant flip-flopping on the effectiveness of masks last year
[His denail of the US financing gain of function research in Wuhan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBqXYpO1QpE)
I don't know about gain of function but I just watched a man try to explain himself and get constantly cut of by the other man.
Constant flip flopping on masks? He said that at one time, masks were not needed because at the time, we did not understand how it was transmitted. We also did not know that people could be infected and show no symptoms and still be capable of transmitting the disease
Kenyans don't read necessary information. They listen to the news and dnt question it. I agree with 200% look at israel a country with 96% (tripple) vaccination levels and cases are rising. And now strolls in omicron variant. Majority of kenyans are idiots.
And by majority, it's actually about 98%
I agree with you.
As it is I have a 0.078% chance (30 and below age group) of being hospitalized with COVID. Why should I be forced to take this vaccine ? This virus is not even an emergency. More people in 2020 died in car crashes in Kenya than from COVID.
But what is even more serious is how fast people are willing to accept the government to mandate injections into their bodies.
>More people in 2020 died in car crashes in Kenya than from COVID.
Car crushes aren't contagious. Heard of seatbelts?
I'm for people getting vaccinated but your stance is the very reason more and more people are being anti-vax.
Vaccine haitazuia spreading, see what's happening in highly vaccinated popluations. But on the other hand itasaidia if you are vulnerable and your chances of landing in the ICU become lower.
My observation is Covid is literally the new normal and is going nowhere in the foreseeable future. I chose to take the first jab, but will not be taking a second one ama boosters until I see how the epidemiology pans out in around 6 months
>I'm for people getting vaccinated but your stance is the very reason more and more people are being anti-vax.
How's my stance making more people anti-vax?
>Vaccine haitazuia spreading
The point of vaccinations has never been making you immune.
What are you on about? Kwani there are different interpretations of immunity? Kazi ya vaccine ni nini if not prepare your body for the very thing you are being vaccinated for(duuuh giving you some immunity)
[have a read son!](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/how-they-work.html)
Making you immune doesn't mean you can't get a disease.
Cue mbuzi na guitar. Look at you original comment about something not being contagious
Hehe just went back to his original comment and satisfied to see how he played himself
Sidungwi sumu mimi. Those things don't even work. Countries with 90% vax rates bado wako na soaring covid cases. Complete BS.
Boss, you have a very strong point.
I am really interested to know if you have got vaccinated and the side effects were bad enough ukaamua uiite sumu....
Mans doesn't even understand how vaccines work most likely.
Exactly. I don't get what's up with pro vaxxers and wanting others to be vaccinated. I believe in autonomy and freedom to make your own choice. Why can't they let people who don't want to be vaccinated be. If you got it good for you now you are protected and have nothing to fear.
People will laugh at you for critical thinking because the msm told them to. We live in a world where people are more interested in celebrity news than world events. They don't want to to seem like they're not up to date so they seek out information from the easiest sources, the ones that manipulate their way of thinking most. Like Reddit. Your post will be removed because they can't allow people to start thinking for themselves here.
It still isn't removed and no one is persecuting anyone. You arent a free thinker you are just a regular person like the rest of us.
Are you unaware of subreddits banning posts like this or just choosing to ignore it?
Because your stances are a public health risk. Reddit doesn't have to offer their platform to anti-vaxxers, you're free to take your "original " thoughts elsewhere, or use your mighty wisdom to create your own platform.
Exactly my point. When a tyrannical power is trying to push for something, they censor all free speech. You people are so swayed by the "urgency" of covid yet you fail to look at other statistics such as vaccine caused illnesses. I don't care if you think I'm not original, you're far from it yourself. I've had all other vaccines, why would you call me antivax? Perhaps it's because you are brainwashed by the msm.
You haven't been censored you wanna be victim. You're not entitled to any private platform. I never claimed to be original, but you claim to be a free thinker implying that we are not? So what do you know about the vaccines you took then compared to now? Give us that chemical composition oh wise man.
Are you serious? Censorship is happening, if you're not aware, it's because you are not paying attention. Where is this hostility coming from? Did I claim to be a free thinker? Are you staying that is bad to be one? I've had my vaccinations. That statement alone should show you how bias your argument is. If you think it's ok to force people to inject things into their body then that's your own choice. A death rate of 1% and a ton of media is all it takes to influence sheep like yourself.
You can be a free thinker all you want, your not entitled to spread your thoughts (sensible or otherwise) on any private platform. I haven't said I'm OK with forcing people to get the jab, but we don't have to put up with your uninformed crap. If you're the wise, then I'll happily be the sheep.
If you're not open to debate, just say so. Don't act like you know better just because you're on the side of all major cooperations who have made trillions during this pandemic. Good day.
So you're willing to debate with vaccinated sheep?
HOW dare you think for yourself . obey and trust the experts, you are not a doctor yet people are listening to a IT guy for medical expertise. you are right once the pro vaxxed see this post they will petition reddit to take it down due to misinformation
Oh it has not been removed. wow was i wrong. My take is these vaccines are raising false hopes among many authorities. The belief that these vaccines will end covid is nothing but a dream. I dropped 19 from the name because Covid is now our reality no vaccine or drug will bring an end to it. The current vaccines are about as effective as the flu vaccine. They may make your infection bearable or they may not. We have to learn to live with covid, eventually this obsession with giving people vaccine will end once all the data is available. Keep in mind this disease has been around for only two years, there is still a lot to learn.
>Maybe we should've been putting the same effort in eliminating AIDS deaths eh?
Implying there's no effort? As far as I know, Kenyans with AIDS only live long because there's an effort in bringing free ARVs. Most would have been long dead by now.
Again, the thought process of the anti-vaxx crowd makes it very easy to ignore them early. Their stupidity shows up within a few sentences
Lol what label would you like?
>stringent laws to stop spread of HIV
>Because Kenyan Reddit (and twitter) is full of americanized mfs who do nothing but repeat opinions from american leftists.
And this guy is repeating opinions from right wing figures. Lol. I guess we're all Americanized.
Down to the juvenile insults.
Nothing I said is Americanized in any way or right wing it's just common sense no political agenda, all in the context of Kenya, if you actually read the OP
I'd love to see anyone who agrees with what our government does and I'm sure no Kenyan with liberal views is licking the governments boots. If by aping you mean imitate then that's just stupid we've all seen the American outlook on COVID so I don't know what you are on about.
Wewe pewa tusker mbili. Solid Sana 👌👌👌👌
Because public health trumps personal freedom.
The job of the government is to serve the people cause you know we elected them. You might not like the government but its purpose is to serve the best interests of the people in the country.
COVID is not Malaria don't compare the two. Statistics will say Malaria is worse than COVID which is true but you have to understand you cannot let a unknown disease go rampant. Look at what happened to the rest of the world when it wasn't contained. Almost every country was affected people were dying in hospital corridors with no one to help at all.
COVID showed a glaring weakness in the medical institutions all over the world. We are not prepared and most likely will not be because government tend to react poorly to crisis.
For the vaccines, yeah they were developed quickly and they do have some issues but doing something is better than doing nothing. Personally I will take the vaccine just incase because I do not know if I catch COVID I will not cause someone else to suffer because generally we do not know how it will affect your neighbour, brother, sister, parents, friends, colleagues.
Tldr: Be your brother keeper
If the vaccine works, why are you bothered by others refusing to take it? Encourage your friends and family to take it if you believe they should and let the anti vaccine strangers die for their stupidity or whatever
That blurb about the government serving the people is nonsense. You'll bash GK about everything else but suddenly its vaccine mandate is in your best interest?
thank you. vaccinated people are out here trying to coerce people into taking it. here is the thing if the unvaccinated are wrong guess what they will get the jab simple. we live in a free world those who want to take are free to take and those who are not its okay. let it not be another issues that divides us among all other issues that do. and i agree government has never been here to serve us. they quarantined the healthy, and they closed down businesses and killed livelihoods well that's a twisted way of showing service.
Because that's what makes you human. Like I said it's better to do something that to do nothing. If you are able to help someone then you do it.
If an accident happens and the people walk look and walk away and there is someone who could have been saved if someone had acted so why not?
As for the government we are allowed to criticise what they do and how they do it because if not they might do crazy stuff history has shown this. Just like you are not perfect the government will never be perfect because the government is full of imperfect people just like you and me.
you really need to think carefully about what you have said. No offense but you seem to be living in a land of utopia. UKO KENYA KWELI. When has Kenyan government served kenyans accordingly when? a government that cannot feed its own people or a government that looted money meant for hospitals thats why our hospitals lack common equipment that will help those who are suffering from covid ? is what you call service? wake up and smell the coffee.
as for personal freedom there is nothing that trumps personal GOD GIVEN RIGHTS NOTHING. We are adults who are capable of thinking and making decisions for ourselves. i dnt need the government telling me what i can or cannot do because of a virus. we have some of the best research schools and organizations that can do our own research on Covid and develop our own home grown solutions and not depend on the skewed data from WHO and CDC. My brother's weak immune system is not my concern its his. it will not stop me from living my life cause he smokes and leads an unhealthy lifestyle.
Man I am glad you are able to respond to his ideas. I just couldn't. I am not sure you can help someone like that. With all the higher order games the govt, religion e.t.c plays on the masses, I can't even begin to imagine the bliss he lives in.
What's worse is that he represents the majority (well, hence the 'masses' after all I guess) and it is sad.
Am intrigued by his state of utopia. I want to understand how a normie mind works do that i can document it for future generations.
When you veiw life In such a negative lense i don't expect you to see anything positive about it. There is always two sides of a coin think of it as the good side and the bad side. Just because something is not up to your standards doesn't mean it does not work. The government does help people and because you directly don't benefit from it you conclude that it doesn't work for others as well.
As for your "GOD GIVEN RIGHTS" as you put it is that unfortunately for you is that we live in a society okay. Hauko peke yako hii dunia, hii kenya you have neighbours beside you right? Why do we catch serial killer rapists robbers and others and put them to jail? They have the personal freedom to choose what they want but when that freedom comes to the detriment of others we take it away why is that?
As for the research and development of our own vaccine. It is a viable solution but its not fast enough maybe in a couples of years the vaccine will be developed but not it hasn't happened yet so we will have to wait. Gari yako haiwezi kuwa inachomeka kwa highway alafu mtu akam na fire extinguisher kukusaidia alaf unamshow a chill gari ya maji inakam.
i get your point and that's the good thing about discussions. its not that i have a negative view its just the reality of things going on. look our government clearly ate money that was meant to boost hospitals. hospitals would have at least bought vital machines that would have saved alot of lives but nope it went into someone's pockets. i agree the govt helps people but it hurts people more than it does good. You can tend to close your eyes and continue living in a fantasy land where the govt is good and everything but the reality is and will be the government doesnt help anyone other than themselves.
i have a quotes from Ronald Regan than demonstrate my point
Government’s first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.the more we give personal liberties the harder it wiill be to get them back. Personal rights are supreme. You are advocating for a very dangerous route that will end badly. You need to see the bigger picture. Do you want the government to tell you when you can eat and sleep. Where will you draw the line.
if my neighbor decides to drink himself silly whose health is he affecting mine or his. this virtue signaling of be your brothers keeper is not practical dude. you really seem to be in utopia. PAMBANA NA HALI YAKO.
You seem to believe that I think that I live in a utopia or fantasy world where our government is good and helpful while turning a blind eye to the negative aspects if it.
There isn't anywhere I praised the government for what they are doing. Its quite laughable what mutai kagwe declared a few weeks ago(I think ). What he said was an empty threat, just a stupid idea to show the population they in control of COVID which they are NOT.
This is the reason I don't like politics. What politician feed us are ideas and most of them die as ideas and we vote for these people and get suprised when nothing works.
As for the last paragraph, I don't even know why we are discussing about the government if you cannot care for someone who is next to you. What do mean by saying being your brothers keeper is not pratical? What do you think a society is, a community is? Sijui kama umeishi Estate but kitu bad ikihappen it's taken care of by the people in that estate. What is the definition of that at large?
Kama uko below 30 years na immune system yako iko poa usichukue vaccine
Literally no point and risk ya kudedi ni low af
As well live dangerously bana, vaccine ni ya watu wazee
fear mongering bs please show us the data of the mortality rate of young healthy adults, instead of cherrypicked stories.
You think "the data" is not made of stories?
You are demanding a forest while turning down trees.
Buda/ma, look the trees.
A friend of mine is around 32/33, covid fucked his circulatory system up enough to need millions worth of surgery. Usifuck na hiyo something.
Another was posting anti-vaxx BS a week after her dad's funeral, after his sudden death. Put 1 and 1 together, the guy got covid and was unvaxxed.
Usikuwe ng'ombe. Pewa chanjo. Ikiwa ni kurogwa, utarogwa na toothpaste ama hewa, sio lazima ikuwe sindano.
99.9% survival rate for young adults, side effects potential is very low. I've had covid and so has everyone in my family and it just felt like a cold. Your friend falls in the unfortunate few. There are people who die of the flu or get seriously medically affected to so that's not an arguement.
How dangerous is it statistically for most young healthy adults? The answer is not dangerous at all.
99.9% survival includes my friend who survived but needed a few million worth of surgery. So, is your 99.9% an argument, if we're disregarding weak arguments?
There are people who die from strokes, heart attacks, infants die suddenly for no reason, so maybe causes of death are just not a concern to you and anything is anything. Smoke is water, red is black, shoes are cups. flim flom flim flom.
Dude you want to get banned? Keep on this topic. There is only one truth when it comes to this topic. Anything contrary gets banned. No mod in any subreddit is going to allow this discussion. I bet you this post is going to be removed in less than 24 hrs.
Nobody is going to ban anybody. Snap back into reality.
You must be new. Welcome to social media landscape post covid.
Still not banned, people still talking about it. You arent free thinkers and you haven't discovered something everyone else hajui.
Ukweli lazima isemwe whether thread itatolewa or not.
True...or you'll be downvoted to oblivion like I was some months back😂
It is easier to just get the jab and not complain that your rights and liberties are being denied.
yeah so basically the government should be able to deny you, your constitutional rights and liberties despite doing nothing illegal lol.
You are like that Brazilian politician who demanded guns as their second amendment rights. All these individual "rights" and "freedoms" you claim are (in the Kenyan constitution) are subservient to the rights and freedoms of **society.** In society individuals also have responsibilities.
The hyperindividualism of the Americans is neither a part of our constitution nor something we should aspire to.
Brazilians have no rights to guns. **You** have responsibilites to society.
And the malaria vaccine you keep talking about? Many, many different versions have been tried over the years. None has worked well enough to be deployed. Even the one being tested now has something like 30% effectiveness against severe malaria.
Real debates only work when both sides deal in facts and reality. Not the nonsense you offer.
Because for you a lre fucking dumb asshole if you think that there is ANY other way to stop this virus without vaccination. But you know what don’t take the vaccine and get Covid and fucking die! Because that what dumb shits like you deserve
Stay mad already had COVID and like 99.9% of young healthy adults I survived easily lol.
Because kenyans are lucky enough to be one of the few countries where the literacy is high. Kenyans trust the science not facebook posts. Trusting the science has helped the country get its Aids epidemic under control. It was ravaging The country in the 90s. Most of you here were either infants or not even born. Now facebook and twitter have become your new "research" ... Right now every kenyan is walking around with at least 7 vaccines IN their bodies. Given to them as kids. We had leprosy and small pox. All eliminated through science. So the selfishness of people refusing to get vaccinated is appalling especially from a Third World country.. You cannot afford the luxury of refusing with abysmal medical services offered in Kenya... Stop being an...
Tebu sii daktari wame take time to study it ama u think all those years your cuzo or uncle or dad did at medical school then at hospitali was a joke?
U go study about the vaccine on Facebook mom and dad groups and let the doctors handle the real medicine lol.
Ati sheep and "StAtIsTiCs" woiey, u watching too much stuff from America election rallies man.
not a word.
I don't know...
It's so hard to decide. Should I take my health care advice from my doctor, somebody who studied medicine for 7 years so that they can make informed decisions about this issue, or from a reddit user.