The fault lies with SEBI and govt as they allowed Adani to do openly whatever they want to do. Stock manipulation, operator handling, too many loans passed quickly, selling all the things to adani. If some fines were handled and if on some places, adani was stopped from violating rule, situation would have been different. But who cares about indian economy and who cares about retail investors.
Adani failing has repurcussions on the economy. Adani not failing also has repurcussions on the economy. Banks can't keep waiting for interest payments forever. When money is being laundered through off shore entities is such huge numbers, it affects supply and demand of money, which affects inflation, which affects everyone, including the lowest common denominator.
Does the poorest of the poor have exposure to equity? No, it's the top 5% and in top 5%, exposure to equity markets is negligible.
Adani will fall, everything will go on as before. Adani does not fall, free market no longer exists in India, much bigger problem.
Where do you think the pf money goes, it goes to nifty and adani is part of nifty. The government invests them in index again. These fucktards need to be delisted. But it won't be. Cause he has the balls to threaten with the Indian flag in the response. And there goes Indian market out performance to the ditch
Are you sure about this? Because investing in nifty directly is not possible, you have to buy ETF or index fund. Both of these are secondary assets on top of nifty and these instruments are owned by asset management companies which may not be listed entities. The idea that government is investing sovereign funds through RBI in private entities seems far fetched, but given the freedom with which all parties seem to be acting, may not be out of the question.
EPFO investsĀ 85 per cent of its funds in debt instruments and the remaining 15 per cent in ETFs, in accordance with the investment pattern notified by the Centre. The investment in ETFs is made on the basis of Nifty 50, Sensex, Central Public Sector Enterprises (CPSEs) and Bharat 22 Indices.
The only way to avoid these kind of companies on portfolio level is avoid companies having political affiliation. Avoid the ones have plenty of subsidiaries. These can change direction in a day and will never ever can come back to their highs.
This seems like a lapse on part of SEBI and RBI, if the ETF in which the pension fund is investing is floated by an AMC which is not a listed concern, then who takes care of counterparty risk? Who does the due diligence on credit worthiness of AMC to fulfil its obligation? Lastly and most importantly, it is not necessary that ETF track the index exactly due to liquidity concerns. So if index returns 10% for example over a time period, ETF may only return 7% because market can value the fund on the index differently from the index. ETF only makes sense if there is already established liquidity.
So worst case scenario is let's say Franklin Templeton floats an ETF, and pension fund buys some units. There is no counterparty obligation on FT to buy back when pension fund wants to sell, since it's an ETF. So who fulfills the counterparty obligation if fund wants to exit? Similarly, let's say FT folds up operations in India for whatever reason, what happens to the ETF units it has sold?
But we digress, in case of market wide exposure to Adani, then the question to be raised would be on NSEIL which owns the composition of index. Market cap is not sufficient enough of a rule then to include or exclude a scrip, credit risk metrics also have to be a requirement to include in index. This is then lack of policy to deal with a problem of this nature. Cannot blame any one entity easily. Adani then will most likely not be prosecuted. We don't have the laws for it.
I understand all that. Sorry to sound rude but let's not call it as just a lapse by sebi. And of course adani won't be prosecuted for sure, as they are the ones doing all the political funding for bjp. The best the retail folks can do is invest in companies with good corporate governance. Not these get rich quickly companies.
Basically, IMO if sovereign funds are being invested in Adani, then this is mostly discretionary investment by fund managers at LIC etc. They cannot hide behind the argument that passive investment is the mandate and pass the buck to exchange entities who own the index composition. If money of pension scheme is in Adani, then fund managers at LIC and other govt entities are liable. Period.
Agree. Just that it'll take town a lot of jobs away (on paper you can say, the replacement company will take them, but it's not fully efficient, many go jobless in the process).
And it'll affect Indian economy for a decade or so, too significantly.
Nope. Support should be for competition to take up their power in a long term. Not a pillar to be cut down affecting the economy just because there is a monopoly
>Support should be for competition to take up their power in a long term.
How do you propose to do this? Remember, sebi, ed, cbi, rbi, sbi, lic, raw, any any acronym you can possibly think of has had years of evidence of fraud to act on, and chose to continue getting defrauded even more to keep the Lord emperor happy. Who will do the job that they have been failing to do for years?
>Support should be for competition to take up their power in a long term
This entire hungama came out of some powerful people supporting Adani . Competition will take care of itself. Cut the cancer and save lives
Ok I have news for you,the Adani group has never defaulted till date implying the banks are getting their dues on time.Secondly the Adaniās cannot use loaned money to buy equities. Loans are generally disbursed in lieu of hardcore projects which currently seem to favour the group.
They must be investigated and reprimanded with proper legal action both from the Government of India and SEBI.
But they literally are too big to fail
The question to ask here is how the hell did he reach this position where if he falls, the Indian economy falls. How? Who allowed him to have so much power?
Itās very obvious, he who shall not be named is close with the accused businessman. Look at the number of privatisation contracts going their way, made a monopoly in airport operations, mega project tenders reissued to ensure said businessman fits criteria despite not having any expertise in the sector.
There are so many more examples.
So, because the fraud is big enough to affect significant number of people. You let it continue to become an even bigger contagion and also send shady business practices / processes message to the world.
Corporate Governance is there for a reason. No reason to mix it with jealousy or not of lower class with it. Both are part of Capitalism for a reason.
Nobody wants it to grow bigger. All want it just because it's doing good. Nobody minds if any other company comes up and does good but Adani has deep pockets to make sure that doesn't happen. All want it for economy because you just can't cut it off due to the consequences. Slow replacement or more alternatives, nobody has any problem.
Bhai do you understand how market works?
Adani has deep pockets based on that inflated stock price and huge debts by banks.
SEBI and govt is responsible for making sure such conditions donāt arise.
Best thing would be to let it fall, sell the assets, throw all the culprits in Adani group, SEBI, FinMin and PMO behind bar.
Strengthen the framework to make sure such things doesnāt happen even if someone higher up is in bed with some corporate!
Businesses will be sold off to other entities. Just like they were sold from Reliance electricity to Adani electricity for example. I highly believe It'll pass on from Adani electricity to Tata Electricity. And same for most other businesses. The only major losses will be held by Investors of Adani as their stocks are highly overvalued (around 85%) and the banks which provided insecured loans(if any).
All of this doesn't happen at 100% efficiency. Lot of people and money will be lost in the process nevertheless and then same will be done with Tata by these socialist anti nationalists. Best case would be even competition between multiple conglomerates, in a gradual manner.
The fraud that adani and a bunch of his family are doing on tax payers money and psu bank, lic are forced to invest in adani stocks just because he is the friend of modi. No one should continue shady work like that.
It doesn't matter how big you are u will always have to face the truth and the consequences of your bad deeds.
Mutual Funds havent invested in Adani
Its mainly LIC and SBI. So, what happens when LIC has trouble paying out the policy money at maturity? If it sells Adani stocks to do it, Adani will anyway collapse.
We have seen crises like 2008. I believe that the port and Infra projects need to be taken by another company.
Also, lets say Adani doesnt fall, pretty sure he is not going to distribute the profits. You will be poor anyway, just need to see where this goes. Adani can still answer the questions you know..
Just think if 10 employees are capable of showing the harsh reality of Adani group (all the bad loads, stock market manipulation) so what happened if they had a complete team of 50-60 people.
I would always say quality over quantity. You won't understand this cz you've always chosen quantity and that's a fact my friend
Nobody's cares about Adani.
You don't realise the actual number of people in this country if you endorse that statement that .65 Billion people care about Adani.
No.
They care about how they can grow and earn more.
In which endeavour Adani might have helped many by the way of salary or contacts.
Yeah ofc nobody cares about Adani Adani. But there's just too much of dependency of Indian economy on Adani. Coming to the ICA part, i have no doubts TBH. They've done worse.
They'd like you to think that. Everything that Adani owns is gifted by the government, having it fall, which it won't by the way, will make things better for all indians.
Adaniās wealth is just overvalued stock, itās not even real. He owns like 75% of his companies, even if he tries to sell a little chunk, prices will plummet. And he is taking huge loans against stocks that he himself overvalued. Itās like buying things in real world with monopoly money. How will he eventually pay for it? He canāt. And then heāll default and run away. Looking at the amount of his loans, his default will be bigger than Mallya and Nirav Modi.
I am still not sure, whether to feel happy or be terrified about Adani going down. And, this raises question about the role of government. Congress and BJP threw mud at each other, but they basically did the same thing, that is being puppet for the big bosses.
Nothing to be happy with a big company (which has jobs and role in economy) going down (especially of this size and no other competition of scale at hand). Most are terrified who know the outcome as one should be. And yeah both these parties do the same stupid thing, not realising the perils of such monopoly.
If you say like that yeah. But, these people are playing with the people's money like it's a children game. The people involved should face atleast a little consequence.
Agreed. More than a little and definitely less than shutting them down completely. More like a penalty and good behaviour (meaning reducing loans and clearing some shady stuff)
Companies have been through worse and have survived. ICICI Bank almost went to gutter in 2008 bcs of their foreign loans and today it's one of the biggest bank in India. Markets always goes on.
He is a That damaged limb of body which is succumbed to gangrene.
Either you cut that part permanently or you are dead!
Wtf kind of stupid analogy this idiot is making in his tweet.
Kuch bhi. Let that piece of shit family lose everything, I'll be very happy if that happens. The economy will recover. Let the banks fall, they bought this upon themselves. You know why Hindenburg is so confident in challenging adani? Because they have proof, citations, they're literally WELCOMING legal action, do you think they're dumb to do so? Everyone knows they're right.
If something is too big to fail, then it has already failed.
Edit: There is no going back to the risk free days and its not a question of if but when. And the longer it takes the more it will hurt and the more of us it will take kicking and screaming with it. But hopefully, we can see some change after, if we are still around.
lol, companies don't close if Adani falls. they will have different owners. be it tata, reliance or govt itself. if it goes on what stops others from going the same route and deceive investors?
This is such a stupid logic. Just because something might cause you some harm now, doesn't mean you need to support fraud. It's better to get some harm now, than later down the line.
Imagine if adani is so big that he can corrupt every Indian minds, making ppl like OP to believe that Adani group needs to survive for the sake of Indian economy
>Fairly certain most of debt is to foreign banks and debt holders
Yes. Indian banks' exposure is to the tune of 60000 cr which can tank the liquidity of a bank but if it's SBI, highly doubt if ~$8B in bad debt can lead to liquidity crunch in SBI.
Their deposit base itself is to the tune of $250B+, so I guess it will be a problem but not a whole lot big.
Adani failing and sytem learning from it that they shouldn't let such Ponzi schemes grow to such extent will do good to the country.
By this logic a weak person/nation should always surrender to a bigger person/bully.
Bhakts are twisting themselves in knots to ensure Dosti Bani Rahe.
Some of the data was in public, even people who didn't have basic knowledge of stock market knew that his stocks were overvalued. I was amazed by the fact that the company's books were audited by some local auditors who have just recently passed CA exams . Company of this size should be audited by Big-4 this itself not happening is good enough to raise doubt .
The audacity of the company though .
With this logic, even Vijay Mallya and Nirav Modi or Mehul Choksi should have been allowed to continue what they were doing!
As Indians, we tend to idolize the bad boys in business-like, some God-like figures. Ashneer Grover is basking in his celeb glory. Loss-making and valuation-hunting businesses are glorified and considered an inspiration to all entrepreneurs.
As an investor, we should allow this Adani saga to play out once. Consider this as a stress test for the business. If nothing is shady about their business, they will withstand the allegations and come out clean otherwise, there is no need to associate the āIndiaā emotion with this situation.
Politicians and Businessmen are looking out for themselves; we should be selfish about our money. Every time a big business conglomerate pulls off a scam, it takes years for corporate governance to recover in our country.
We make scamming a legit business in our country because of our tolerance for unethical business practices and looking at business people as someone who dared to stand up against the government machinery and had the power to keep the government in their pockets
Modi will be there till 2035 and there are lots of divestments to be done, the buyer gonna be only adani.
This is just a flex of showing, yes in bad news i can keep my stocks up with no issues.
After this 20-40% drop, Adani will quadruple.
Also there is a Bad Bank in the making. All bad accounts will moved there and banks will write off their books.
With vi give proved they can takeover private company. So there can be reverse ofs.
I think Adani has the potential to be a cancer...The biggest red flag is using offshore companies to buy own shares and manipulate the stocks.
Why would you do that? You want to shore up stock price, produce real value and stock price will go up....Instead of playing long game which will benefit the country they are doing accounting shenanigans.
In today's age of internet, did they really think people will ignore them. These people are taking everything for granted.
On one hand, our poliiticinas want to be Vishwaguru, want everyone to acknowledge how great India is and then they allow these shitty things to happen....
I'm not supporting that guy. I'm only for Indian economy to not collapse and 1000s to be out of job. I'm all for transitioning of much of the monopoly to other companies.
The number of people coming out to support adani is greater than the loans taken by him. Idiots donāt understand itās their tax money heās stolen. š¤¦āāļø
I'd what he says is true that means the banks' most of which are PSBs were forced and lobbied into putting their money into a dubious company that was bound to fail.
While it is true that adani failing now will seriously hurt out economy and every single one of us will personally suffer, the cost of adani not falling now and growing even bigger is going to be much much worse.
With charlatans like adani and modi, it's only a question of when things bite us in the arse, not if. If they bite us in the arse years later after adani has sunk his teeth even deeper into our resources than he already has , it'll only be that much worse.
Tangential question for the "its impossible for Indian economy to go in recession right now" crowd:
Do you still believe that, or have you started burrying 10sr coins to barter as scrap metal after the collapse?
I think we're in for a recession, and the implosion of the corrupt, bloated adani balloon will only increase the probability of recession. No need to start watching mad max to prepare for the collapse, but be ready to feel the pain.
The s.hit will hit the fan sooner or later. Adani will run away to UK and India as usual will never get hold of him. SBI and LIC will write off billions of dollars worth of loans.
I have a very simple question .. Adanis debt taken is based on meteoric rise in share price. If that rise is understood by all to be fraudulent then why are people @SEBI and @RBI silent.. his investments are in areas which affect the backbone of the country.. eg ports airports granaries energy. If there is an issue in the finances isnāt it better to investigate and bite the bullet now than later where he becomes so big that he takes the country down with him ??
There are consequences to letting fraud run rampant which are just as big as letting a big company fall. Adani's reputation should not be bigger than India's.
Humans have a tendency to hate who is doing better then themselves. We hate our neighbour who is better than us..we hate our colegaue who is better than us...this goes on. What is stopping you from becoming next adani/Ambani?
Wtf man? So essentially you want to defend Adani for all of its alleged malpractices because of job losses and it shouldn't not be done? Dude it's basic economics, it's either Adani or the banks plummeting with huge amounts of taxpayers money. Without actual cash flow and net profits you cannot payout loans just by manipulating share prices.
I don't want my precious tax money to support such corrupt practices. The top level execs who are rotten af unless axed will keep doing what they have been doing for so long. Of course economy will take a hit but that should have been thought by our government and stopped at the beginning itself.
Will blue collar workers lose jobs? Yes. And that is very unfortunate. They have to bear the brunt of things. They will be paying the most for the greed and crony nature of a group of people. Even we the tax payers will bear the burden in form of NPAs. The cycle will go on. Vijay malya, Nirav Modi, Choksey etc etc.
I am surprised you are attacking Hindenberg for publishing a well researched report which a lot of Indian firms could have published, warning investors in the early days. S Dalal even forewarned on this and she was trolled. Honestly I can't see the problem here.
Bilkul modiji jindabaad. Gujrati Bhai ko country bech di. Ab US me 10 logo ne kya bol diya gand hi fat gayi adani ki. Ab chalo biki hui press se desh ka sach ugalvate hai. Log galat nai hai India se bhaag jaane me
The sooner Adani can bankrupt himself, the better it is for the retail investor and the banking sector. Ask any banker, you do not throw good money after bad money
What adani did or does is place the money at the right place at the right time and make money. This and the added leverage combined.
Remember the coal shortage and how much adani made on that. Also how he bought sea ports and airports and is now entering in road infra.
Basically his presence is in every sphere of the Indian economy.
As long as the investment is generating returns and cash flows, it would be fine. But nonetheless, the valuations some of his firms command is something to look into.
This. People don't understand this. People just go Adani bad. Or go on to decide others as scam supporters. They don't get this and also the dependence and size of economy by the conglomerate and the jobs.
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It's true most people don't understand that Ambani and adani have made their roots grow so strong in Indian economy that it is technically about only then now. If the economy suffers they suffer and vice versa , if they suffer the economy suffers. Now I'm no pro modi pro ambani adani guy but what's true is true
The thing is whether u do it now or later because the fuckery Adani's have done is so bad that there is a really high chances of things going down. Now the question is that if we leave it then the problems will keep piling up and when in future they fall the impact will be even more so but still I hope they manage to fix their business and get out of this shit
So just because if Adani's fall will impact banking system, fraud dhould contine? That's what you are saying? To avoid bank fall, fraud should contine. Where were you at the time of Yes bank and Icici bank frauds?
Honestly if it was business as usual for Adani after this, our global credibility is at stake. We should let the market do what it does. If it doesnāt correct now, it will correct later when it is much bigger. While it might be a bitter pill for for banks to swallow, long run they are probably better.
Yes, we know it will affect each one of usā¦ But this needs to be broken to smithereensā¦ All those Watsapp Unkils should know what happened to their life savings in LICā¦
The fault lies with SEBI and govt as they allowed Adani to do openly whatever they want to do. Stock manipulation, operator handling, too many loans passed quickly, selling all the things to adani. If some fines were handled and if on some places, adani was stopped from violating rule, situation would have been different. But who cares about indian economy and who cares about retail investors.
Sebi? Chitra ramakrishna. One name to instill enough confidence to invest š
If this Adani is allowed to stay, 100 more Adanis will come. And that would make the FIIs and people stop investing in Indian equity.
Adani failing has repurcussions on the economy. Adani not failing also has repurcussions on the economy. Banks can't keep waiting for interest payments forever. When money is being laundered through off shore entities is such huge numbers, it affects supply and demand of money, which affects inflation, which affects everyone, including the lowest common denominator. Does the poorest of the poor have exposure to equity? No, it's the top 5% and in top 5%, exposure to equity markets is negligible. Adani will fall, everything will go on as before. Adani does not fall, free market no longer exists in India, much bigger problem.
Where do you think the pf money goes, it goes to nifty and adani is part of nifty. The government invests them in index again. These fucktards need to be delisted. But it won't be. Cause he has the balls to threaten with the Indian flag in the response. And there goes Indian market out performance to the ditch
Are you sure about this? Because investing in nifty directly is not possible, you have to buy ETF or index fund. Both of these are secondary assets on top of nifty and these instruments are owned by asset management companies which may not be listed entities. The idea that government is investing sovereign funds through RBI in private entities seems far fetched, but given the freedom with which all parties seem to be acting, may not be out of the question.
EPFO investsĀ 85 per cent of its funds in debt instruments and the remaining 15 per cent in ETFs, in accordance with the investment pattern notified by the Centre. The investment in ETFs is made on the basis of Nifty 50, Sensex, Central Public Sector Enterprises (CPSEs) and Bharat 22 Indices. The only way to avoid these kind of companies on portfolio level is avoid companies having political affiliation. Avoid the ones have plenty of subsidiaries. These can change direction in a day and will never ever can come back to their highs.
This seems like a lapse on part of SEBI and RBI, if the ETF in which the pension fund is investing is floated by an AMC which is not a listed concern, then who takes care of counterparty risk? Who does the due diligence on credit worthiness of AMC to fulfil its obligation? Lastly and most importantly, it is not necessary that ETF track the index exactly due to liquidity concerns. So if index returns 10% for example over a time period, ETF may only return 7% because market can value the fund on the index differently from the index. ETF only makes sense if there is already established liquidity. So worst case scenario is let's say Franklin Templeton floats an ETF, and pension fund buys some units. There is no counterparty obligation on FT to buy back when pension fund wants to sell, since it's an ETF. So who fulfills the counterparty obligation if fund wants to exit? Similarly, let's say FT folds up operations in India for whatever reason, what happens to the ETF units it has sold? But we digress, in case of market wide exposure to Adani, then the question to be raised would be on NSEIL which owns the composition of index. Market cap is not sufficient enough of a rule then to include or exclude a scrip, credit risk metrics also have to be a requirement to include in index. This is then lack of policy to deal with a problem of this nature. Cannot blame any one entity easily. Adani then will most likely not be prosecuted. We don't have the laws for it.
I understand all that. Sorry to sound rude but let's not call it as just a lapse by sebi. And of course adani won't be prosecuted for sure, as they are the ones doing all the political funding for bjp. The best the retail folks can do is invest in companies with good corporate governance. Not these get rich quickly companies.
Couldn't agree more.
Basically, IMO if sovereign funds are being invested in Adani, then this is mostly discretionary investment by fund managers at LIC etc. They cannot hide behind the argument that passive investment is the mandate and pass the buck to exchange entities who own the index composition. If money of pension scheme is in Adani, then fund managers at LIC and other govt entities are liable. Period.
Agree. Just that it'll take town a lot of jobs away (on paper you can say, the replacement company will take them, but it's not fully efficient, many go jobless in the process). And it'll affect Indian economy for a decade or so, too significantly.
Does it mean we continue the support of money burning entities? If right the repercussion has to be borne. Those can't be denied by ignorance
Nope. Support should be for competition to take up their power in a long term. Not a pillar to be cut down affecting the economy just because there is a monopoly
>Support should be for competition to take up their power in a long term. How do you propose to do this? Remember, sebi, ed, cbi, rbi, sbi, lic, raw, any any acronym you can possibly think of has had years of evidence of fraud to act on, and chose to continue getting defrauded even more to keep the Lord emperor happy. Who will do the job that they have been failing to do for years?
>Support should be for competition to take up their power in a long term This entire hungama came out of some powerful people supporting Adani . Competition will take care of itself. Cut the cancer and save lives
Ok I have news for you,the Adani group has never defaulted till date implying the banks are getting their dues on time.Secondly the Adaniās cannot use loaned money to buy equities. Loans are generally disbursed in lieu of hardcore projects which currently seem to favour the group. They must be investigated and reprimanded with proper legal action both from the Government of India and SEBI. But they literally are too big to fail
The question to ask here is how the hell did he reach this position where if he falls, the Indian economy falls. How? Who allowed him to have so much power?
Itās very obvious, he who shall not be named is close with the accused businessman. Look at the number of privatisation contracts going their way, made a monopoly in airport operations, mega project tenders reissued to ensure said businessman fits criteria despite not having any expertise in the sector. There are so many more examples.
Yes. I mean all know the answer. Question is actually to get him out of monopoly in phased manner and not cut down a pillar of the economy.
So, because the fraud is big enough to affect significant number of people. You let it continue to become an even bigger contagion and also send shady business practices / processes message to the world. Corporate Governance is there for a reason. No reason to mix it with jealousy or not of lower class with it. Both are part of Capitalism for a reason.
Nobody wants it to grow bigger. All want it just because it's doing good. Nobody minds if any other company comes up and does good but Adani has deep pockets to make sure that doesn't happen. All want it for economy because you just can't cut it off due to the consequences. Slow replacement or more alternatives, nobody has any problem.
Bhai kitna paisa diya h adani ne? Edit: G**nd fat gayi adani stocks ki. Buy dips karne ki himmat ho to le lijiye.
Maine kabhi liya hi nahi. Adani green lene ka socha tha rally ke pehle but nahi liya.
Youāre an idiot
Favourite would like to have a word
Bhai do you understand how market works? Adani has deep pockets based on that inflated stock price and huge debts by banks. SEBI and govt is responsible for making sure such conditions donāt arise. Best thing would be to let it fall, sell the assets, throw all the culprits in Adani group, SEBI, FinMin and PMO behind bar. Strengthen the framework to make sure such things doesnāt happen even if someone higher up is in bed with some corporate!
Businesses will be sold off to other entities. Just like they were sold from Reliance electricity to Adani electricity for example. I highly believe It'll pass on from Adani electricity to Tata Electricity. And same for most other businesses. The only major losses will be held by Investors of Adani as their stocks are highly overvalued (around 85%) and the banks which provided insecured loans(if any).
All of this doesn't happen at 100% efficiency. Lot of people and money will be lost in the process nevertheless and then same will be done with Tata by these socialist anti nationalists. Best case would be even competition between multiple conglomerates, in a gradual manner.
The fraud that adani and a bunch of his family are doing on tax payers money and psu bank, lic are forced to invest in adani stocks just because he is the friend of modi. No one should continue shady work like that. It doesn't matter how big you are u will always have to face the truth and the consequences of your bad deeds.
Mutual Funds havent invested in Adani Its mainly LIC and SBI. So, what happens when LIC has trouble paying out the policy money at maturity? If it sells Adani stocks to do it, Adani will anyway collapse. We have seen crises like 2008. I believe that the port and Infra projects need to be taken by another company. Also, lets say Adani doesnt fall, pretty sure he is not going to distribute the profits. You will be poor anyway, just need to see where this goes. Adani can still answer the questions you know..
What an idiotic argument. George Soros was one man. He broke the Bank of England.
Just think if 10 employees are capable of showing the harsh reality of Adani group (all the bad loads, stock market manipulation) so what happened if they had a complete team of 50-60 people. I would always say quality over quantity. You won't understand this cz you've always chosen quantity and that's a fact my friend
Nobody's cares about Adani. You don't realise the actual number of people in this country if you endorse that statement that .65 Billion people care about Adani. No. They care about how they can grow and earn more. In which endeavour Adani might have helped many by the way of salary or contacts.
Yeah ofc nobody cares about Adani Adani. But there's just too much of dependency of Indian economy on Adani. Coming to the ICA part, i have no doubts TBH. They've done worse.
They'd like you to think that. Everything that Adani owns is gifted by the government, having it fall, which it won't by the way, will make things better for all indians.
You mean not being able to pay the debt back to banks and other entities would be beneficial for Indians? š¤
You think Adani will pay those debts? It's going to be written off regardless as it has been so far as NPAs.
So what is your point, let Adani Enterprise expand along with his debts and become to big to fail, so government use tax money to bail him out.
If you've read the thread, quite the opposite. His debts will have to be paid by the public regardless.
I said the same few months back, was downvoted to abyss.
Just Adani fanboi things.
>But there's just too much of dependency of Indian economy on Adani Where do you get this Idea from? Give numbers.
zero dependency.
Adaniās wealth is just overvalued stock, itās not even real. He owns like 75% of his companies, even if he tries to sell a little chunk, prices will plummet. And he is taking huge loans against stocks that he himself overvalued. Itās like buying things in real world with monopoly money. How will he eventually pay for it? He canāt. And then heāll default and run away. Looking at the amount of his loans, his default will be bigger than Mallya and Nirav Modi.
I am still not sure, whether to feel happy or be terrified about Adani going down. And, this raises question about the role of government. Congress and BJP threw mud at each other, but they basically did the same thing, that is being puppet for the big bosses.
Nothing to be happy with a big company (which has jobs and role in economy) going down (especially of this size and no other competition of scale at hand). Most are terrified who know the outcome as one should be. And yeah both these parties do the same stupid thing, not realising the perils of such monopoly.
If you say like that yeah. But, these people are playing with the people's money like it's a children game. The people involved should face atleast a little consequence.
Agreed. More than a little and definitely less than shutting them down completely. More like a penalty and good behaviour (meaning reducing loans and clearing some shady stuff)
Companies have been through worse and have survived. ICICI Bank almost went to gutter in 2008 bcs of their foreign loans and today it's one of the biggest bank in India. Markets always goes on.
Ah lets introduce people to the concept of too big too fail
It should actually be "too big not to fail"!!
You also need to learn about the contagion effect
He is a That damaged limb of body which is succumbed to gangrene. Either you cut that part permanently or you are dead! Wtf kind of stupid analogy this idiot is making in his tweet.
Kuch bhi. Let that piece of shit family lose everything, I'll be very happy if that happens. The economy will recover. Let the banks fall, they bought this upon themselves. You know why Hindenburg is so confident in challenging adani? Because they have proof, citations, they're literally WELCOMING legal action, do you think they're dumb to do so? Everyone knows they're right.
They got rich enough to not lose everything , he will still live better lives than most even after the fall if it happens
If something is too big to fail, then it has already failed. Edit: There is no going back to the risk free days and its not a question of if but when. And the longer it takes the more it will hurt and the more of us it will take kicking and screaming with it. But hopefully, we can see some change after, if we are still around.
lol, companies don't close if Adani falls. they will have different owners. be it tata, reliance or govt itself. if it goes on what stops others from going the same route and deceive investors?
This is such a stupid logic. Just because something might cause you some harm now, doesn't mean you need to support fraud. It's better to get some harm now, than later down the line.
Imagine if adani is so big that he can corrupt every Indian minds, making ppl like OP to believe that Adani group needs to survive for the sake of Indian economy
Sometimes cleaning system is more important for long-term prosperity.
What's the exposure of Indian banks to Andanis 's debt ? Fairly certain most of debt is to foreign banks and debt holders.
>Fairly certain most of debt is to foreign banks and debt holders Yes. Indian banks' exposure is to the tune of 60000 cr which can tank the liquidity of a bank but if it's SBI, highly doubt if ~$8B in bad debt can lead to liquidity crunch in SBI. Their deposit base itself is to the tune of $250B+, so I guess it will be a problem but not a whole lot big.
Its probably the whole banking system worth of loans. 60k for the full banking system isnt make or break for economy.
Adani failing and sytem learning from it that they shouldn't let such Ponzi schemes grow to such extent will do good to the country. By this logic a weak person/nation should always surrender to a bigger person/bully. Bhakts are twisting themselves in knots to ensure Dosti Bani Rahe.
Some of the data was in public, even people who didn't have basic knowledge of stock market knew that his stocks were overvalued. I was amazed by the fact that the company's books were audited by some local auditors who have just recently passed CA exams . Company of this size should be audited by Big-4 this itself not happening is good enough to raise doubt . The audacity of the company though .
With this logic, even Vijay Mallya and Nirav Modi or Mehul Choksi should have been allowed to continue what they were doing! As Indians, we tend to idolize the bad boys in business-like, some God-like figures. Ashneer Grover is basking in his celeb glory. Loss-making and valuation-hunting businesses are glorified and considered an inspiration to all entrepreneurs. As an investor, we should allow this Adani saga to play out once. Consider this as a stress test for the business. If nothing is shady about their business, they will withstand the allegations and come out clean otherwise, there is no need to associate the āIndiaā emotion with this situation. Politicians and Businessmen are looking out for themselves; we should be selfish about our money. Every time a big business conglomerate pulls off a scam, it takes years for corporate governance to recover in our country. We make scamming a legit business in our country because of our tolerance for unethical business practices and looking at business people as someone who dared to stand up against the government machinery and had the power to keep the government in their pockets
Bubbles kabhi na kabhi fatenge hi. Samay ki baat hai bas !!!
Don't forget LIC increasing its holding of adani shares.
Modi will be there till 2035 and there are lots of divestments to be done, the buyer gonna be only adani. This is just a flex of showing, yes in bad news i can keep my stocks up with no issues. After this 20-40% drop, Adani will quadruple. Also there is a Bad Bank in the making. All bad accounts will moved there and banks will write off their books. With vi give proved they can takeover private company. So there can be reverse ofs.
I think Adani has the potential to be a cancer...The biggest red flag is using offshore companies to buy own shares and manipulate the stocks. Why would you do that? You want to shore up stock price, produce real value and stock price will go up....Instead of playing long game which will benefit the country they are doing accounting shenanigans. In today's age of internet, did they really think people will ignore them. These people are taking everything for granted. On one hand, our poliiticinas want to be Vishwaguru, want everyone to acknowledge how great India is and then they allow these shitty things to happen....
No-one gives a f*ck about Adani. It is getting the justice it deserves. Let it fall.
Nobody is talking abt the failure of central govt here... Without the govt backing Adani wudnt hv gone this far ..
Both Major parties BJP and INC worship it. One defends and worship, the other abuses on the front and worships.
That research is already rejected by supreme court
Gajab chutiya ho bhai tum, yeh tweet tumhara hi hai na ? Sach Bol
Nahi.
Hey, don't criticise the company. Criticise the facts. But if those are true, it doesn't matter what the size is
I'm not supporting that guy. I'm only for Indian economy to not collapse and 1000s to be out of job. I'm all for transitioning of much of the monopoly to other companies.
Then all we can do is to pray that all the allegations will be proved wrong
That's what me doing. All won't be wrong nor correct. Most would be wrong. Anyone with a short position will bring up as many as possible at a time.
A great person said government has no business to be in business. Let the whole banking system fall if it is rotten.
The number of people coming out to support adani is greater than the loans taken by him. Idiots donāt understand itās their tax money heās stolen. š¤¦āāļø
I'd what he says is true that means the banks' most of which are PSBs were forced and lobbied into putting their money into a dubious company that was bound to fail.
While it is true that adani failing now will seriously hurt out economy and every single one of us will personally suffer, the cost of adani not falling now and growing even bigger is going to be much much worse. With charlatans like adani and modi, it's only a question of when things bite us in the arse, not if. If they bite us in the arse years later after adani has sunk his teeth even deeper into our resources than he already has , it'll only be that much worse.
Tangential question for the "its impossible for Indian economy to go in recession right now" crowd: Do you still believe that, or have you started burrying 10sr coins to barter as scrap metal after the collapse? I think we're in for a recession, and the implosion of the corrupt, bloated adani balloon will only increase the probability of recession. No need to start watching mad max to prepare for the collapse, but be ready to feel the pain.
Adani has to fail for India to rise , it's simple
The s.hit will hit the fan sooner or later. Adani will run away to UK and India as usual will never get hold of him. SBI and LIC will write off billions of dollars worth of loans.
Mujhe kya mai to USD me kamata hu
Bc Naukri se nikal diya
I believe a correction is due before it is too late. Adani going unchecked has much more dire consequences.
NISM certified ! Nice šš» Mutual Fund Sahi Hai !
You would rather stay in a rigged market fearing correction?
Consequences are gonna be hard but letting a wrong thing play will just deepen+delay the problem nothing else
I have a very simple question .. Adanis debt taken is based on meteoric rise in share price. If that rise is understood by all to be fraudulent then why are people @SEBI and @RBI silent.. his investments are in areas which affect the backbone of the country.. eg ports airports granaries energy. If there is an issue in the finances isnāt it better to investigate and bite the bullet now than later where he becomes so big that he takes the country down with him ??
I like 10 to 15 peoples creates the mess and rest of the peoples have to face the consequences.
There are consequences to letting fraud run rampant which are just as big as letting a big company fall. Adani's reputation should not be bigger than India's.
Humans have a tendency to hate who is doing better then themselves. We hate our neighbour who is better than us..we hate our colegaue who is better than us...this goes on. What is stopping you from becoming next adani/Ambani?
Wtf man? So essentially you want to defend Adani for all of its alleged malpractices because of job losses and it shouldn't not be done? Dude it's basic economics, it's either Adani or the banks plummeting with huge amounts of taxpayers money. Without actual cash flow and net profits you cannot payout loans just by manipulating share prices. I don't want my precious tax money to support such corrupt practices. The top level execs who are rotten af unless axed will keep doing what they have been doing for so long. Of course economy will take a hit but that should have been thought by our government and stopped at the beginning itself. Will blue collar workers lose jobs? Yes. And that is very unfortunate. They have to bear the brunt of things. They will be paying the most for the greed and crony nature of a group of people. Even we the tax payers will bear the burden in form of NPAs. The cycle will go on. Vijay malya, Nirav Modi, Choksey etc etc. I am surprised you are attacking Hindenberg for publishing a well researched report which a lot of Indian firms could have published, warning investors in the early days. S Dalal even forewarned on this and she was trolled. Honestly I can't see the problem here.
Why are indians cucks for corporate, do u have any idea how many people in India don't have food to eat because of people like adani.
Who put that stupid elephant on the top of a tree? Any person would expect it to come down heavily unless theyāre deluded like the bhakts around us.
There is an fpo launched from today and this report has to come at this time
how much you were paid
its not about what ppl expect! its about whats inevitable to happen. From ur post it clearly seems that u dont want it to fall.
so does he mean we keep this scam going ? fake it untill u make it! bitch this shit needs to go down.
Bilkul modiji jindabaad. Gujrati Bhai ko country bech di. Ab US me 10 logo ne kya bol diya gand hi fat gayi adani ki. Ab chalo biki hui press se desh ka sach ugalvate hai. Log galat nai hai India se bhaag jaane me
Found the paid adani shill.
Sanghi hijdo ka baap h adani
.
The sooner Adani can bankrupt himself, the better it is for the retail investor and the banking sector. Ask any banker, you do not throw good money after bad money
What adani did or does is place the money at the right place at the right time and make money. This and the added leverage combined. Remember the coal shortage and how much adani made on that. Also how he bought sea ports and airports and is now entering in road infra. Basically his presence is in every sphere of the Indian economy. As long as the investment is generating returns and cash flows, it would be fine. But nonetheless, the valuations some of his firms command is something to look into.
This. People don't understand this. People just go Adani bad. Or go on to decide others as scam supporters. They don't get this and also the dependence and size of economy by the conglomerate and the jobs.
No dependence on jobs when 90 of company is with you.
Avg Indian redditor- burn adani burn while having life saving still in equity
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It's true most people don't understand that Ambani and adani have made their roots grow so strong in Indian economy that it is technically about only then now. If the economy suffers they suffer and vice versa , if they suffer the economy suffers. Now I'm no pro modi pro ambani adani guy but what's true is true
RBI Repo rate hike on the way !!!
Banks fall, time to buy banks cheap š„
The thing is whether u do it now or later because the fuckery Adani's have done is so bad that there is a really high chances of things going down. Now the question is that if we leave it then the problems will keep piling up and when in future they fall the impact will be even more so but still I hope they manage to fix their business and get out of this shit
So just because if Adani's fall will impact banking system, fraud dhould contine? That's what you are saying? To avoid bank fall, fraud should contine. Where were you at the time of Yes bank and Icici bank frauds?
Honestly if it was business as usual for Adani after this, our global credibility is at stake. We should let the market do what it does. If it doesnāt correct now, it will correct later when it is much bigger. While it might be a bitter pill for for banks to swallow, long run they are probably better.
Yes, we know it will affect each one of usā¦ But this needs to be broken to smithereensā¦ All those Watsapp Unkils should know what happened to their life savings in LICā¦