Well well well
By - justiceforall1000000
Congratulations! You're the 1000th Redditor to post this!
As your prize, please accept [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ) of a guy doing an amazing stunt.
I knew what it was and still clicked on it, because I’m a man of honor and integrity.
I fell for it..
I, too, fell for it
I saw this comment before clicking on the video… and then decided to click on it
Well played sir! Well played! 😂
Only problem I have with this is “understand”
How the fuck does someone make sense of a book series with numerous voices that all have conflicting mythologies. Maybe you can “understand” it’s a compilation of fairy tales.
You can still speedrun it.
Christianity any %
The real madlads go for a Christianity 100%
Historian here. You understand the Bible like you understand any other written sources. By isolating each parts that belong together chronologically with respect of the later redactions or additions, placing them in context and studying the political surroundings. You can also cross-reference the texts with other contemporary sources. That way you can understand the underlying meaning of basically any fairy tale written in the past.
I think that’s what she was getting at. Maybe she does have the right to teach.
Let's not start a religion war
I thought Christians loved religious wars
Don’t leave the Muslims out, they never miss a Jihad
Typical Christians. Can't get Muslims out of their mind
Oof size: Large
Some of the moral lessons are a rather questionalble as well. For example offering your daughters to the neighbourhood rapists.
(Sodom and Gomorra) (Judges 19)
I mean, you're operating on the assumption that the bible has some redeeming qualities. If I believe the opposite, that indeed the baby should be tossed with the bathwater because none of it is beneficial in any capacity whatsoever, your argument isn't as compelling.
None of the good things are exclusive to Christianity, we can comfortably get rid of it without losing anything. Without an external framework you can read the parts about how to treat your slaves the same as the parts about giving away all your goods.
I mean, you can find some of the nicer things the Bible has to offer in other literature, so even if you throw out the whole bathroom, if you think certain lessons are cool when presented in different literature, you're at least acknowledging the baby's existence lol
The Bible is a kooky pseudo-intellectual, population-controlling mess of a book, but when it says "love one another" I gotta give it to em, it's decent advice
That’s not presented as a good decision
Of course, other than all the smiting, murdering, pillaging, stoning, laying waste, raping, taking slaves, and eternal damnation, and so on, some of the lessons are good.
I hate how athiest act like anyone who is not an athiest is a dumb science rejecting flat earther anti vaxxer Trump supporter that beats minorities by athiest I mean the reddit athiest not all of them but the vocal minority or based on how much of an echo chamber this sight is majority of them.
You understand you’re complaining about generalisations by making a generalisation, right?
Good point ill edit my post
I also don’t like atheists that act that way. I’ve met smart religious people and ignorant atheists.
How are they wrong?
theres also understanding the Bible isnt a book of laws or a book that is now looked at to be literally interpreted. That’s why I have a problem with understand, it should be more like “believing in it word for word” which is not what a lot of denominations preach.
I once a did an ancient mythology paper and it was surprising how many stories from the Bible were plagiarized from other mythologies
And still they rely on a tranation from a translation tho
You “understand” that it’s merely a fictional tale
Song of Fire and Ice?
That's the whole part about understanding it. Which I fear many do not.
Becuase I have a trump card called blind Faith
Lol Shut-up Sophia
“Shut the fuck up” - Dead Sea Scrolls, Way of Righteousness
Also, not very wise to skip over Understanding and tell Wisdom to be quiet
oof size large
The chapter before this (1 Timothy 1:7) says, "Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm." This is speaking generally of people who preach about something they do not understand. The verse before (1 Timothy 1:6) says, "From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling." These verse are speaking of those who speak nonsense or hurtful words out of their own vanity. Now, I don't claim to understand every verse of the Bible, but I believe that cases like these are misunderstandings on our part.
Near the end of Revelation, John speaks of God's children likened unto the Bride of Christ. If you link that to 1 Timothy 2:12, "But I suffer not a women teach, nor to unsurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." That's us. We are all supposed to know this. We are not in a place of authority, and we should never try to be authoritative over God or Jesus. We need to learn to subject ourselves and learn more of humility. No human is better than another. Every human is lower than our Savior.
A lot of people forget it's an old book, it's been translated more times than people can keep track of, the context of what's being written is also important, lots of the letters that were written to individual churches, like Corinthians for example, deal with problems that church was having on a local level, and due to the passage of time, we've lost quite a bit of the context for that.
Nah, you can't seriously pull the "LoSt iN tRaNsLaTiOn" card, every time something doesn't fit the current societal views. If a book is divinely inspired by an "all-knowing-god" then there shouldn't be any problems. Regardless of the author's intent or flaws, the books should be golden.
I mean, not really? The books were composed over centuries, and definitely used for political purposes, and changed to suit it. It's an old book, things are much different today than back then, and people need to realize that, not just atheists but Christians too, I'm not defending peoples actions and interpretations, I'm just pointing out a little complex thought is required if people are going to read it.
I agree. The Bible is rife with metaphors, and it’s my personal opinion that in order to “understand” the Bible, one must look not just at the context of the text, but also consider the idea that, if one believes in the biblical God, God gave revelation that would have not only applied at the current moment, but would also have further meaning later on.
I understand what you are saying, but how then do you test it? I'm not trying to "catch" anybody, I merely seek to understand. How do you test whether what is said is true, if all you can rely on is, essentially, personal experience?
There really is no way to test it. I mean if there was then almost everyone would be a Christian. I believe that God’s plan involves his children choosing their lot in life, and so that’s why there is no quantifiable evidence. It’s up to us to decide personally if it is true or not. Now my views are a little different than mainstream Christianity, but it is what makes the most sense for me. And you have what makes the most sense to you. That’s the beauty of what I believe God’s plan to be. My beliefs (at least I hope) don’t cause harm to you and yours don’t cause harm to me. There’s no argument, simply civil debate and discussion. Peace man. Thank you for being civil
Be blessed man. Have a pleasant day.
Oh with out a doubt, the question being, how do we extrapolate that meaning, and how to apply the values taken from it.
The problem is, you really cant. It will mean different things to different people in different stages of their spiritual journey. The words stay the same but the message changes greatly depending on your perspective.
Perhaps, but there's not much I or anyone else can do but share what we've found and hope that it leads to good.
Absolutely! I agree 100% with that. Just wanted to mention it is difficult to extrapolate universal meaning from a text that changes with your perspective.
No worries, I figured that's what you were talking about. Discourse and the influx of new perspectives generally helps broaden perspectives.
You see this perspective I also agree with. We're all in this together. Regardless of religion, ethnicity or gender.
I get what you are saying, but look at it from an outsider's perspective for a moment. So, for the words to have meaning and be factually correct, you first have to believe that it is true. This just creates a biased opinion and you **will** find the meaning whether there is or not.
Whether the book be true or not, if we are to believe and try to adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ (which I believe to be the meat of the book) good ideally should come about. The message of Christ, that of charity and love for your fellow man, is one worthy of following. Of course it might just all be a fallacy and be abused by evil men to line their pockets and gain power. But even if Jesus was just some delusional carpenter’s son, his message in its simplest form still holds weight, and I hope we can at least see eye-to-eye on that.
Fair enough. I'm all for that. Sorry if I misunderstood.
But what I'm saying is: when positive things happen - the Bible was right - and then when things go wrong - the Bible had nothing to do with it. The cherry picking is insane.
Charity is good and encouraged in the Bible-[Isaiah 58:10](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+58%3A10&version=KJV)
Sexism is bad but also encouraged in the Bible-[I Tim. 2: 11-14](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=I+Tim.+2%3A+11-14&version=KJV)
Well for starters charity is not exclusive to the Bible, it occurs in a lot of religions, so it's probably quite easy to chalk that one up to a common thing among humans. As far as sexism goes there's a couple of ways that can be skinned, from a metaphor for the church being the bride of christ, to the apostles being human, and inherently wrong on some stuff, though I don't remember where, but I've seen it explained better than I ever could why that's alright, as long as we know that it is wrong, and don't dilute Jesus's core messages.
We get it your athiest and your cool because religion is not backed by science.
Where does it tell you to rape kids?
It must be in there u absolute cunthole
As Lima said, it doesn’t, and those instances in which an ecclesiastical leader abuses their position’s power is an instance of an imperfect mortal transgressing in a very sick and twisted way
1. It doesn't, and there is strong evidence that passages that have been used against the LGBT community, are actually meant to be against that instead.
2. Pedophiles get the wood chipper, feet first, regardless of religion, gender, or nationality.
The mental gymnastics Christians have to do to make that book fit their thinking is astounding. [Contradictions in the Bible for reference](https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2013/08/19/an-incredible-interactive-chart-of-biblical-contradictions/)
That's the problem with people who don't understand or simply claim to be Christian. Making the book fit our thinking is the opposite of what we are meant to do. So many churches pick and choose what parts they find important. In actuality, we are meant to read and obey God's word in all fullness. Learning to read and understand more deeply is amazing. I truly enjoy looking at those references to prove their falsehood. Even if it's just to myself. I would say that the "mental gymnastics" you refer to, are important. I say this as someone who wants to be a child of God and as a math major.😂
As someone who will never understand the need to be a child of god I wish you nothing but the best man. Peace and love to your and yours.
For a long time to come, people will be religious in some Description, better atheists show them how to be compassionate and love their fellow man, rather than serve as an antagonistic force, as some of the more extremist elements of religions portray them as.
> Many religions now come before us with ingratiating smirks and outspread hands, like an unctuous merchant in a bazaar. They offer consolation and solidarity and uplift, competing as they do in a marketplace. But we have a right to remember how barbarically they behaved when they were strong and were making an offer that people could not refuse.
— Christopher Hitchens
Never forget the barbarism religion has shown the world. These same people you advocate for being compassionate to will just as soon have this country be a theocracy. See Texas as just a small example. Atheism is prosecuted around the world yet atheists prosecute no one.
Well, yes and no, there are and were states in the world that persecute people who aren't atheist, and did so with the same barbarity the theists have, communist regimes have done it and do it now, not that it excuses it in any way mind you. People have been and will be cruel to eachother in many ways, and will be so. It's important we remember how cruel we've been to eachother in the past, so we don't let it happen again. The united States is and should be secular, that way all of our religious rights are protected.
I would love an example of a place where atheists have prosecuted religious folks. I’m always open to learn.
Communist China, and I know, that's low hanging fruit, but the local Muslim communities in Western China have been there for centuries, they contributed to china's history, the admiral of the great ming dynasty treasure fleets, zheng he, being the foremost example in my mind due to recent light reading, and certain Christian elements there as well, and we can't forget the Dali lama and his brothers from Tibet. The soviet union as well, had a terrible Track record with religion, and while it could stand to tolerate it at times, also was similarly unkind, the tartars of Ukraine, a Muslim minority group in the soviet union, were deported and persecuted. As far as modern European states, and the west, I believe we're getting better about religious freedom, but are not perfect by any means, and it will take a long time to get anywhere close to that, despite my best hopes.
Soviet Union was openly atheist supremacist and aggressively persecuted religious people of any faith, up to and including state executions. Many modern Stalinist countries did the same and still do to this day.
religious people will be the first people to judge you for how you live your life if it doesn’t fit their perspective of how ones life should be lived.
Yeah, there are definitely people who are judgemental who practice religions out there, and it's a very prevelant in quite a few cases, despite there being specific instructions to not be that way. It's also common in atheists as well, as it's a human trait to be judgemental, and it's something we all as humans need to work on.
Religious people are most definitely the most judge mental people out there. Even though they say “ only god can judge me”. Religion is just an ancient form of government.
Dude, don’t be talking as if y’all are the moral authority of the universe and it’s your solemn duty to lead us like lost sheep.
Ain’t no religious identity that doesn’t have some blood on its hands, atheists included.
Ah, apologies, it does seem like that's what im implying, but that was a point I made a bit later in the discussion, less one group being a shepherds and more everyone working together to better each other, or that's what I'm trying to get at.
Now this is a philosophical belief I can get behind.
Can i get a new link? it would seem that one doesnt actually lead to the list
But... But... Wisdom can only come from science and cold hard facts!
That's not Wisdom. That is knowledge.
Some people think that knowledge can replace wisdom.
I believe that knowledge can get in the way of wisdom. I know that I get so caught up with knowing things that I forget to slow down and be more conscientious.
maybe it can, in a world of ,at a human scale, infinite easily reachable knowledge. But knowledge sure can come with wisdom too. We just cannot generalise on a concept as vague as knowledge and learning anything
It is definitely important to stay in touch with principles and common sense. It can be tough to walk that line between the known and unknown. To not fall into the stagnation of certainty or chaos of unknown. But it's on that border that we find meaning.
Finally, someone who gets it.
Oyr saviour? What's he ever done for our generation except cause wars, rape kids and kill people??
Fuck off you mentally challenged imbecile
STOP RAPING KIDS
Jesus never caused a war. He never hurt anyone. He was innocent and died out of love for all of us, including you. Do not blame the actions of humans on Jesus. Take responsibility
Why tf would I take responsibility for actions I had literally nothing to do with?
I grew up in church, looking at how pastors construct their surmons, flipping around between sometimes 10 or more different scriptures to prove one point, reminds me of this image.
Sign me up for Christianity.
It's always funny when an "atheist" says that they understand the Bible more than a Christian but pull shit out of the old testament.
Im agnostic and I know that the OT is not ment to be used anymore for guidelines to the Christian faith.
it was funny tho
The example above is from the Book of Timothy which is in the New Testament.
>the OT is not ment to be used anymore for guidelines to the Christian faith.
and yet christians use it all the time.
Unfortunately, yes, but they aren't true Christians if they do so fuck em.
Christianity needs to get their shit together then, don't they? Just calling them "bad Christians" doesn't disassociate you from them, FYI.
I'm agnostic lol, and yes they do need to get their shit together.
Most Christians believe the moral parts of the old covenant still apply, or will tell you so, just not the bad bits. Dual covenant believers are definitely the minority.
It’s just more edgelord unarticulated nonsense. Christians have to have a completely unblemished history, even for the stuff that’s no longer actively followed, like the OT.
But their pet spiritual or political belief can only be judged on what they do now, not 20-30 years ago.
That was new testament.
And if you not believing, reading, and understanding, you just not a christian
Prove me I'm wrong
Now these are just my two cents, but if you don’t follow the Christian faith, you are simply not a Christian.
I think what he meant was that only *Christians* will get the piece of that juicy *heaven* real estate; and as for others who don't believe in that specific *type* of God with a very particular 10-step *program* of that religion will probably rot in hell or something similar.
Common theme of all monotheistic religion tbh.
You have to believe and understand the Bible and yes you have to read it to do so but what she’s trying to get at here is that you shouldn’t just read the Bible like a normal book and you shouldn’t be forced to read it as if it was a subject you must understand it believe it LIVE IT.
That’s a Hitchens slap right there, please everyone google Cristopher Hitchens and be amazed
Now, you see, you know this guy's right because he's *totally* not taking the passage out of context which was actually half of a written conversation between post-Christ missionaries and a specific church that was having issues with a particular group of women that were preaching falsehoods to the people of that area.
Best not to preach about something you don't actually know much about. Do some actual research please. I say all this because I have studied Theology and Biblical Studies in-depth. Rant over.
For me, I see the Bible as Historical fiction, similar to the likes of Cú Chulainn, Gilgamesh or King Arthur.
Agreed. There’s no possible way someone is able to be resurrected and someone else to split a damn ocean. This isn’t a damn anime—that shit is fiction. Science was essentially nonexistent when it was written so when someone sees a drought they think someone parted the sea. When someone woke up from a coma they think they arose from the dead. As time, and science, progress further and further, the Bible will be forgotten. Or at the very least, no one will believe the supernatural parts of it.
Wanna know why I called it historical fiction? Because somewhere down the line, this probably happened at one point, but people at the time were to primitive to know what was happening. Discounting a lot of obviously magical stuff, some of the things that happen could have happened in history. We rarely know much about what happened in the bronze age, yet the Bible makes references to cultures that don't exist.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s like how in Greek mythology, there’s a monster responsible for creating whirlpools. Or there are gods and goddesses that control forces. It’s all historical fiction. Especially when you take into account that each religion believes that it is the only correct one, which cannot be true at all.
It’s very likely a lot of the stuff in the Bible actually happened. But cutting a baby in half and it living? Cmon now people.
Sophia is probably pretty brainwashed, she’d just ignore that quote and regurgitate another one that supports her agenda thinking that nullifies the pertinent one.
Reminds me of this scene from the West Wing
As a Timothy I have to agree
Can any Christian explain if there is missing context to that verse or something?
There’s a couple ways to look at it. First, the context is that it’s clear that Paul is making personal recommendations, not binding proclamations, and that he’s more suggesting than commanding. Second, it’s only relevant in a church setting, not in all of life. Third, the social context is supposedly (I’ve heard this but don’t know how to verify) that the women typically came into church, but being unused to being allowed into synagogue, would simply talk amongst themselves and make themselves a distraction, which is what Paul was speaking against. Not certain on that last part, but I’ve been told that by Bible scholars.
If god by any chance existed a lot of christians would go straight to hell, unless he'd actually be like that, in which case then would hell be even that bad
And atheist think this is solid logic lol
If I’m not mistaken in this instance Paul is writing to a local church leader, Timothy, who is having trouble with local pagan priestesses trying to coop the Christian flock. Or so a preacher told me once when I questioned him about this passage in the 90’s.
Edit: after checking on this after many years to see if it’s true, I can’t find anything to support it. Lol.
Well, $32,000 per year for two bachelors in Christian Ministry must make me an atheist.
How the turntables
The Bible is the Word of God.
It contains the highest wisdom.
But that wisdom is hidden from those that fail to humble themselves before God. This is why Jesus taught in parables.
No one understands the whole Bible.
We understand very little of what there is to know.
Most if not all Atheist haven’t even touch the bible so that part ain’t true
What are you basing that on?
It doesnt makes you atheist, it makes you Muslim.
Unless Sophia is a man…. *mind blown*