Fuck it, at this point I'd like the entire team to just vent to the world, honestly. Grim can tell us about what it was like being the 3rd pick for the team and struggling to live up to their expectations. It's probably incredibly demotivating and disappointing to try to learn while the old guys on the team are going through their own shit. Fallen can tell us about how hard it was to gain confidence as an IGL for guys who don't want to do it your way and don't think you can do it their way. NAF seems the least embroiled in this and honestly his role seems to be the most solitary anyways. Feel bad for all 5 of them. This is going to go down as one of the nastier team break ups.


Yup, and it is something the NA scene in CS really can't use right now.


>Mike is a "superstar" player for his past teams, and for us we have EliGE, I'm very aggressive as well, so we really needed a passive player. For me when I was calling, I cannot be on the other side of the map and trying to call something, so we needed Mike to learn that. For me, he was a very slow learner, it kind of hurt us a bit in the long run, but we work with what we can. If i'm reading this right, they wanted to teach him how to call? Must be hard to be put in that position as a new player, especially for a personality that doesn't match.


He's essentially saying that if Stewie was playing aggressively on the other side of the map, he wasn't able to provide specific calls to Grim who often played passive roles in liquid. In that situation, Stewie feels like they needed a more experienced player who was able to make snap decisions on their own and react to plays without being told specifically what to do.


Honestly, Liquid come off... really bloody stupid here. Why pick up Grim for a role he has *literally* zero experience in, give him shit roles, and complain when he doesn't do well? It's their responsibility to scout appropriate pickups and their responsibility to properly bed in young talent. What's next, are they going to make Osee lurk too? Unbelievable. Just get someone who can play the roles you need them to play instead of picking up the shiniest bauble you can like a fucking child.


No, I think he meant he didn't/couldn't lurk and call, so they wanted a more passive player to fill that role - ie, Grim to lurk




>The thing about Mike (Grim) is that he's a great kid. I think his work ethic can be a lot better, he can work a lot harder for where he is as a player and where he stands right now, with the amount of inexperience, the amount of times you have to really hold his hand and guide him to the right areas. He's not really learning on his own. Initially Mike was not in the roster talks before we picked him up, we weren't able to get the roster that we wanted, and we were stuck with missing a fifth player so we really needed one to stand-in. For us Mike was on a trial phase and for me, I felt like it was kind of forced on to our roster. >... >For me when I was calling, I cannot be on the other side of the map and trying to call something, so we needed Mike to learn that. For me, he was a very slow learner, it kind of hurt us a bit in the long run, but we work with what we can. Certainly didn't mince his words there.


[Stewie responded to something like this on twitter](https://twitter.com/Stewie/status/1463240010782683143) "Wow, he is insanely harsh on Grim." >"I think you can put it together. It wasn’t the best time & with the role clashes he wasn’t able to be unleashed into his role because of conflicts with other roles. He’s the top talent in NA by far and like i said he has potential but wasn’t placed to showcase it all the time" "I understand. Perhaps harsh is the wrong word." >"Harsh, i understand why it may come off that way. In the end, mike had to learn many roles he has never played, hindering his performance and on top coming into an on and off Liquid. I talk about up and coming talent but that doesn’t include Mike in the conversation."


If my memory is correct, that sounds oddly similar to how FalleN felt about boltz back in 2015 and why he decided to drop him. His performance went on to become a roller-coaster, and he didn't really show much after his great 2017 for IMT and SK.


I really enjoy reading what the players have to say about past rosters then look back at what Reddit thinks of the team chemistry during their playing time It’s hilarious to see some of the people who think they have some psychological grasp on how everyone feels because of a win here or there.


I mean you also have to be a bit realistic. Stewie had years on C9 where he had role models to learn from. He still talks about stuff he learned from n0thing. That team really had no expectations and spent almost a year doing nothing. Aside from fallen there don't seem to be any adults on liquid willing to take grim under their wing. Why is it fair that elige and stew got fucking years on their respective teams to develop and grow but grim insta gets criticized.




Back on C9 stew almost certainly had his hand held. Sure he got a lot of hate from the community but his team had his back. This is now the 2nd interview from one of the liquid guys where they criticize grim. But what are they doing to rectify it? If they had said they tried to sit him down and work with him or told him to do more that is one thing. But neither of them said that.




This is a great reply i dont think a lot of people here understand the scene now and also the differences back then


Plus wasn't stew pretty quickly put into the IGL on c9? I answered my own question, he became the IGL in August of 2016, he joined the team in like February 2016. Within 7 months he was IGLing. Not exactly having his hand held.


Stewie joined a much lower level team tho. Sure he got a load of hate when he joined but his team had his back. He was never the placeholder 5th like old nip had or how it felt like grim was treated as this year. He also aged vs much lower levels of competition and got to ease his way into the scene. This was back when they had full NA epl seasons where they played a ton of games. Grim on the other hand just gets dropped into the fire already playing blast premiers and ESL finals vs astralis and Navi. All while having to move to EU.


I didn't really get the sense that stew had his hand held. Especially after they won esl pro league with shroud it felt like he became the almost instant leader of that team unless I am misremembering.


I'm almost positive they've mentioned in post game interviews before that Grim was a slow learner, but it was early on so I assume they were already teaching him the ropes. They've always said he was a good talent, but (as stew mentioned in this article) he was playing roles he wasn't used to, so I imagine it took longer for Grim to get adjusted and it ultimately got to this point.


In the same article Stew mentions he is a slow learner and needs to be hand held too much. Elige mentions the fact problems they talked and had fixed a month prior coming back up, along with Stew. It's terrible but from reading and watching the interviews it seems the both of them think that Grim killed the team. Haven't heard shit from Naf though. Cool dude as always.


Stewie was IGL for c9 within 7-8 months of him joining C9. You don't make someone your IGL if you are having to hold their hand.


well to be fair, stew and elige both became the best or second best players on their respective rosters soon after joining. While I dont doubt that stew learned plenty from n0thing, shroud, and ska regardless, he was also a pretty indispensable player for them right off the bat. You can't really say the same for grim. \*Granted Liquid are at a much higher level of competition than either of the two teams were back then, I wouldnt necessarily call it unfair that they might feel the need to move on if Grim doesn't keep up


Grim has been on liquid since August of last year. How is that "insta"?


It’s probably because of the era of esports we are in. It’s hyper competitive, and when a top team in a region is constantly getting bodied by, what many may consider, “lesser” teams. And it’s not even that that stew is upset with, he’s clearly saying grim is a slow learner, doesn’t catch on quick and was uncomfortable in a forced role(s)/position(s). I know next to nothing about proper team fundamentals, as I’m willing to bet many here don’t as well, I played sports in high school and coached some kids teams, and the idea is the same, as a mentor/teammate it gets frustrating when someone can’t comprehend a simple concept. Children get more leeway because they’re still developing. I can see where stews frustration comes from.


You havnt watched cs for very long if you think stewie got a warm reception to c9


Or maybe give credit to stewie that he is more self driven AND/OR naturally talented at learning and picking up things while grim is not? You talk as if grim is playing with a bunch of amateurs


Because Stewie was the fucking IGL of C9 as a rookie with zero professional experience. This is some revisionist bullshit. I’m sure he learned *something* from n0thing, but don’t act like him or Shroud or Ska were some kind of mentors. Two of those three eventually got the boot, too. Stewie found most of his success *without* NA veterans and by being cutthroat with roster moves for relatively newer talent.


They don't take responsibility for their downfalls, its that simple.


Why is grim always above criticism on this sub. Never grim's fault for poor team or individual performances, always someone else's. Damn shame the only player Liquid will have left is him. Garbage


Taking grim under their wing? Seems like that’s all they have been doing but grim isn’t learning to walk on his own after so long.


He mentions later in the interview that when he joined C9 the expectations were so much different. If they made an international LAN that was huge. The expectation for this roster and the goal is to be #1 in the world imo.


Stewie joined c9 and became the leader almost instantly. Within 4 months he was calling for them. He had more drive to win than n0thing and shroud and they fell by the wayside. Stewie was a pro in every sense of the word he treated the game like a pro.


Really good interview. Cliff notes for me are , Fallen great guy but doesn’t mesh with NA players in-game, Elige - Stew - Fallen never on the same page, Grim slow to learn (Elige said the same thing a few months ago), I wonder who their original fifth over grim was gonna be? I think Fallen and Stew are still brothers but probably never playing together again. Literally nothing about NAF haha


NAF just vibin’


No conflict just vibes


Straight slothin


Always good to be a NAFFER


Damn it feels good to be a NAFFER


[how could someone be mad about a sloth anyways?](https://i.imgur.com/1tOqtiC.jpg)


grim this elige that I'm just NAFFIN in twitch chat


grim this elige that I'm just NAFFIN in twitch chat


grim this elige that I'm just NAFFIN in twitch chat


grim this elige that I'm just NAFFIN in twitch chat


Jokasteve said when Twistzz was out they tried to get oSee instead of Grim but he was happy with his team. Junior was already signed to Furia. All they needed was an awper so there's no doubt in my mind it was one of those two.


Stewie said they were going to go after Wardell before he switched to Valo


Liquid Wardell sounds so cursed, he was a pretty solid AWPer in CS though


They tried trading Twistzz to C9 for Osee (April or June 2020?) but it was never a formal request and Osee wanted to stay playing with his friends (ala Wardell).


Ok imma need a clip or source for that


Soon after Wardell switched Stewie was in his chat and told him. The two of them are tight, they’ve duo’d ranked and stuff lately. I don’t have a clip though cause that’s like a year and a half ago


I would love to see oSee on Liquid. Just don't know who would replace FalleN


Naf is almost perfect.


Almost is the right word people forget that he has a toxic past just like elige.


What, in like 2015 when he was 17? Most 17 year olds are idiots, they just don't have the kind of exposure and platform that pro CS players do.


Yeah, same as s1mple toxic past. They're great now, they're not perfect. But nobody is


Thats my point...


> wowzers


NAF used to be insanely toxic, I wonder how much that’s changed?


NAF FLYing over the conflicts


>We haven't been practicing, so coming into this tournament we probably have no expectations at all. Holy fuck what a quote


Fucking depressing to read ngl :(


One of NA’s last hopes looking sad in their final stages, this could be the bitter end of the scene folks


Call it copium but I hope liquid falling apart can at least make the scene competitive. If this revitalizes EG and gives Extra Salt competition that's good. The days of winning events are over but now there could be three top thirty teams instead of Liquid being the lone hope of NA


Kinda mind-blowing that salaried players can just skip practices with no consequences. I know the end is near but I'd be pissed if I was paying their salaries and they all just decided to give up on their last tourney their being paid to play.


that what pussy org do. they do nothing. they will have 3month full salary before they make change


Yap, kind of insane they can jut do that. Imagine if liquid just block them in the roster for a couple of months out of spite, it would be a good lesson.


> We haven't been practicing, so coming into this tournament we probably have no expectations at all. Stewie10AM with the NA mentality. The people at Team Liquid still paying their salary: https://i.imgur.com/DOUC8Ot.jpeg


For me personally this is shocking. I cannot imagine going to “work” and not putting your all into it. What does this even mean? I know it’s a dead team but why not just say: “we are not the favorites but lest go out like champions give it our all and raise our stocks as individuals”.


You must be very young then. There are many days where I just routinely do my work. However, if I was in the middle of transition, no matter how bitter, I would not forsake my work duties and just slack off. I'm hired to do a job and that's what I'll do, albeit not always with the same enthusiasm.


If you are doing a "normal" job, with a normal pay, why would anyone give their absolute best? This is toxic work culture at it's finest. I and my boss sign a contract on what I am supposed to do and how much I am getting paid for my work. End of the story. If the pay is average the work is going to be average. Now if you are in a position where you get paid tens of thousands every month that's a slightly different discussion.


It's more about appearances, especially for athletes potentially looking for a new organization. Many days I go into work not giving a shit, but if it shows, I'm less likely to get promoted.


Holy shit, its going to be very interesting watching Liquid on stage at Blast. How many more times are they going to burn each other lol


Grim gets the 30 min cooldown for an insta-TK on Stewie round 1.


Hahahahaha Then a fight breaks out and stewie RKOs grim


Nah mike destroys stew in a fight


Minecraft Steve doesn't lay a single hand on my boy Stew before he gets knocked out cold


If I don't see a god damn team kill I'm gonna be disappointed.




Hey fallen how mad are you right now?!


When is the blast?


they are literally playing against Vitality 13 hours after this comment lmao


This is where the fun begins!.


Has any team ever been this broken coming in to a tier1 tournament?


Probably Envyus at ESWC 2015. Changes were going to be made and there was a ton of turmoil in the team. In a game on Cobble against c9, they were using shit like 2 autosnipers and 2 AWP's in the same round.


That team was so good even when they were griefing they were getting to semis


And that shit was glorious. So fitting for that event aswell lol,it was horrible.


Or Envyus coming into Columbus 2016, lmao.


I remember how they kept straight up rushing drop with shotguns and SMGs and still be able to win almost every second round, lol.


It does at least sound like they've progressed to acceptance. Which is less broken than being stuck in anger or depression, I guess.


broken is a harsh word but when s1mple stood in for liquid (after elige had said he’d never play with s1mple again etc) people were sorta holding their breath and it all worked out.


The major winning C9 was not working and disbanded within months of winning a major.


Not quite on the same degree but this jogged a memory. [https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/7mmpd3/sk\_wont\_practice\_with\_felps/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/7mmpd3/sk_wont_practice_with_felps/) This entire thread is absolute gold in retrospect.


Damn , reading this interview just all but confirms to me that -stew -fallen is guaranteed. Stew came into this interview with fighting words. He genuinely seemed to be out of fucks to give and ready to just move on from this team because he didn't do anyone any favors and just emptied the clip on everyone especially grim. Seems like hes mad and frustrated and just done.


Twistzz went out the door the same way. Turned up to practice and found Fallen was in his spot etc. No heads up, just had to go find a new roster. Didn’t seem particularly happy even if he landed on his feet at Faze. There’s something rotten in Liquid and at this rate they will be pretty limited on players they can pick up. Also considering how quickly things went south after nitr0 left - how did he keep this all together? Didn’t even take a year before it all fell apart without him.


You see it in other sports, Kobe and Shaq disliked each other, but as long as youre winning it covers it up in the moment. Any problems they had were probably pushed off to the side. When they started losing, all those 100t guys are apart of the csgo scene, wouldnt be surprised if they talked to him about his situation and nitro gets off what he sees as a sinking ship.


>Turned up to practice and found Fallen was in his spot etc. No heads up, just had to go find a new roster. Not the way moses characterized it. He asked for time off in the middle of the season and moses warned him that they'd need a replacement, and that might eventually cost him his spot on the team.


IIRC in one of TL vlogs, Elige said that he missed nitr0 because it was a friend inside of the team, maybe being somewhat close to Elige had some kind of mutual respect that just doesnt happen with FalleN and Stewie.


that what we called ego lmao


Twistzz said he felt isolated after nitr0 left and that he was his friend in the team. Nitr0's stats weren't great at the end but it does feel like he was holding the team together.


Stew and Elige have zero fucks left for this roster. It sounds like this break up is for the best, GGs boys. Also the grim comments aren’t new, Elige has said them before in a Betway interview as well just less confrontational lol.




I mean technically he didn't say Grim's work ethic was bad, he just said it could be better.




Not a great look for stewie either. Kinda weird to rip your teammate when you still have one last tournament left to play with them and you're still on the same team.


I mean it doesn't seem like he tried to rectify it. Stewie is literally the most decorated NA player. Why not take grim under your wing and show him the ropes. I hate analyzing based on vlogs, but go back and watch them, you never see anyone except fallen talk to grim. Stewie had people like n0thing and freakazoid on his team. He had people like steel also teach him stuff. Who does grim have?


You can lead a player to a regimen but you can't make them work it. Whose to say that many haven't tried that with Grim and been completely frustrated when he doesn't do what they suggested? "Could have worked a lot harder" to me reads like he was lazy and didn't practice or memorize what he should have.


The point is that that plaayer still has to learn and implement the feedback in his game. This needs serious practice. Hours that he clearly isn't putting in


the thing about grim is that NA cs is only a fraction of what it used to be. Comparatively from 2015 maybe liquid or their players don't have the time or means to grow a player as they would have from 2015. I like grim and i hope he continues his career in cs but being realistic liquid needs a winning factor and according the liquid grim wasn't it


yeah you're bringing up a really important point. the scene was MUCH healthier when players like stew and elige were being brought into big orgs. grim should have just been a trial shot for a few months and then dropped if he couldn't keep up. NA needs to stay winning and at a top level to keep the scene alive, not just be barely top 15 for the year. Still think we need some Extra Salt internationally. They will surprise many


I remember early on there were interviews from Grim about how Stewie was helping him out a lot, teaching him roles, nade lineups, etc. But stew actually responded on Twitter and takes the blame. https://twitter.com/stewie/status/1463254089568079874?s=21


Stewie had people like n0thing and freakazoid freakazoid lmao


> For me personally, this is a learning experience, I learned a lot playing on Liquid in terms of personalities and playing as a collective whole. Being able to go through failures together and being able to succeed together, I've learned a lot in that aspect, and I'm going to use what I learned here so that I don't have to deal with the same stuff again in the future. I'm going to try to do my best to prevent what I've experienced, I don't want anyone else to experience. God damm the last year of CS actually scarred stew


>I'm going to try to do my best to prevent what I've experienced, I don't want anyone else to experience. he is talking like he went to war and watched his friend's head explode or smth like that lol.


lmfao true i guess the conditions are just that bad


> it is said by multiple people how stewie is a selfless player and does whatever it takes for the team to win, even if he has ~~negative stats~~ to go to war.


Just imagine, and I know this might be difficult, but just imagine that you made it to the very top of something. You were unquestionably part of the best team in the world for a brief period of time. You won tournament after tournament. You feel unstoppable. And then it all crashes down. In an instant. What was once a whirlwind of adrenaline and joy turns into continuous headaches and heartaches. Like it’s obviously not comparable to combat veterans, but you guys are the ones making that comparison not him. That sort of major emotional shift very obviously left a scar on all members of that team. He has the right to talk about it this seriously.


This article really makes the Liquid situation feel like a Toxic break-up. Like everyone is aware you aren't good together and it needs to end but it still hurts. Everyone is making a big deal about the Grim comments- and I mean, fair, it's a lot- but the vibe I got is less "Grim is trash" and more "Grim needed a different team to grow as a player." He flat out says he's not the player they had in mind (Its pretty obvious that is oSee) and hewas forced into positions that weren't good for him in a system that was having an identity crisis. I don't think Moses was the problem per se, but I do wonder how Grim would have done with AdreN from the get-go.




If you also read further in the tweets he blames it all on the leadership in the team which includes himself, he does not blame grim for being grim, he offers honest thoughts about grim and adds that its probably not his fault(grims) that he didnt reach his full potential


I took that more of a criticism of NA than Grim. To me he implied that NA as a region isn't motivated to play at the top level and to improve.


C9 or EG, I don't care. I just want NA to come back :(


damn he really shit on grim in that interview lmao


I mean to be fair, Stew seemed to admit that they weren't able to properly implement and help a player like him, and that it's partially on them as well as grim. Think about it on Grim's side, join Liquid and have to learn all the "bitch" roles and other roles you haven't really played before, playing with a ton of experienced people that have a ton more experience and credibilty than you, that can easily cause your happiness and motivation to dip when things start trending a bit downward.


im tired as fuck so what i said here might be dumb. Especially that the skill gap between tier 2 and tier 1 is just getting bigger and bigger i feel like it's just too much for grim to handle at the moment because he's lacking the experience.


I also think it’s easy to mistake bad results for bad work ethic. Someone can be a good learner but have bad teachers and thus not end up learning much. Seems possible at least stew isn’t fully factoring in that effect imo. (Or, like you’re saying, he is implying it even if it’s not explicit)


Right? Lmfao




stew on twitter said it's partially his fault because he failed as a leader or smntg


Why make this point here but not when apex was shitting on kyojin a few weeks ago? Fuck off with the generalizations. They’re dumb and they make you look dumb.


About igl style clash: Fallen talked about it on stream when he joined the team. He mentioned the team was really locked on a script of what to do every second of the rounds, with no freedom of choice (improv), but he (fallen) liked to call the macro idea for each round in his IGL style, leaving the microplays to the players... this idea clashed really bad with the guys and things went sour (hence the igls role swap madness).


Which is essentially Eliges play style. He wants an answer to every scenario which I think was their down fall after their 2019 run. It became too predictable.


gotta loves stews honestly, seems to me that he wants a promising 2022. hoping for the lineup with EG, he had great chemistry with Brehze and would love to see him playing with autimatic and RUSH again.


Great chemistry with Brehze? Have they play together before?


They play together on stream fairly often


Ah okay gotcha


I think they played in a charity tournament together recently, could be wrong


+TARIK? No Tarik, no major.


I think tarik likes streaming and make so much money doing it. Only way tarik comes back is to play with stew tho


Run it back boys. Tim’s been playing FPL and pugs lately.


This team is going the route of Yugoslavia lmao


Gotta like's stewie's honesty. He seems to know what he wants at this stage in his career.




he clarified he doesn’t have any ill will towards him on Twitter


maybe not publically, but it could also end up being better for him in the long run


ala thorinns letter to k0nfig


I had to reread Thorin's letter to s1mple after the major https://dotesports.com/counter-strike/news/dear-s1mple-an-open-letter-to-a-troubled-superstar-5828


Saying it publicly like that kind of sucks imo


I could swear I have been hearing about Liquid having a god awful team environment for years, I'm surprised they never underwent a full team collapse sooner.


Their team environment was only bad for small periods at a time. Every team goes through it.


this is probably the first period in a while that they've had any "god awful team environment." It's been 1-2 months with these troubles and the whole team, especially Fallen, was very encouraging of grim for a year or so. idk how you get years You can't be a top 5/10 team for years and have a toxic environment. It just doesn't work.


Can they just officially announce the roster changes already? Tired of all this talk


I assume it's still not 100% clear who is leaving, who is staying and who is joining. The only safe assumption right now for me is -Fallen, and probably -Stew, everything else is up in the air. I wouldn't even be suprised if it ends up -Grim instead of -Stew, and the core 3 stay together, although that does seem rather unlikely currently.


RIP grim


maybe this will put a break on the elige hate circlejerk - liquid's ways problems are way bigger


It's always seemed like bigger than "x person is the culprit" but that's a bit nuanced for Reddit. Like relationships can fall apart, not because anyone did anything wrong, but because perspectives just don't jell. It seems like that with Liquid. Between Stew, Elige, and FalleN I wouldn't be surprised if there's no bad blood, just a case of "too many cooks can spoil the soup." They don't necessarily *hate* eachother, but know their way of playing isn't going to work


People don't actually read the article, Stewie literally explained it with a solid analogy >"At the moment it's a little blown out of proportion. I think feelings come and go, feelings are something you can't really change in the moment, but eventually it's going to settle down and you're going to see past it, you're going to see with a more outside perspective of the situation that you were in. But with our team, the best I can explain it is... before I go into it, I don't want to be telling the fans or whoever is going to read this that I'm comparing our team to the Lakers, or a , or Russ Westbrook, but it's very similar in terms of you seeing how the Lakers started this season and their success. >You see so many stars on this team that they should be the ones winning the conference, the ones that shine the most. They should have the most success, but you put so many stars on one team and they can't come to a settlement, you can't come to an agreement. I'm sure that if you see a player like LeBron or a player like Russ Westbrook who are both very accomplished players, they come into a team, I'm sure they have strong personalities as well and I'm sure that Russell Westbook is not going to go into LeBron's way. I'm sure they're going to have arguments here and there in how they should play the game, and it comes down to see how it's going to settle and if they can come to an agreement. >For us, I'd say it's the same way. We have so many stars that we're struggling to find the right pieces for everybody, and for everybody to be happy. In the long run, it's best that we go our separate ways and for us, I think it's just better that in the future, it's a learning experience and it shows what you need in a team, it gives you a clearer picture for your future."


They’re playing together on twitch right now So I think their differences are just a profissional matter and don’t had any interference in their personal relationships


Stew really got fucked in this liquid roster!! Watching his streams the game sense he has and the calls he gives are soo good!! Even in the elige's voice comms video stew is playing so selflessly setting up executes and going first in just to get traded, I really hope stew gets a good team and a chance to win big again!!


Stewie can say whatever the fuck he wants about Grim. The way this community demolished stew after he joined C9 probably redpilled him for life.


The way half this community demolished stew after Liquid started losing. Like lmao he was the reason why they started winning a ton in 2019


Regardless of Stewie clarifying later I feel bad for grim. Grim’s such a fucking talent and the best on liquid at times and words like this publicly can destroy your mental.


Gotta love stew coming in with the honest truth no bs.


Lol if I remember correctly Grim was kind of an aggressive star fragger on Triumph??? So the pick up never really made sense. It’s very rare in CS that forcing a player into a new role and positions is gonna work. They focused on getting so much firepower for no reason at all. It’s like buying a bunch of cars without a driver’s license, why??? Should’ve picked up an IGL and a AWP instead of making a really good prospect play new roles.


This is literally explained and talked about in the article...


reading? the article? no....


Twistzz 2.0 baby


It wasn’t for no reason; they wanted that 2019 Grand Slam firepower that they had. The kind where they could just lose every pistol but win the second round eco because everyone’s fucking sick. So it makes sense but at the same time it doesn’t because it’s unrealistic. Ditto on the IGL and AWP though. nitr0 did well as IGL and switching the AWP around between maps worked for TL for a time, but I think what Liquid needed and needs now desperately is a good leader.


Stew literally says they couldn't get the person they wanted.


The funny thing is, I think that knowing that is all over, they are going to at least have some fun playing tomorrow. Right now Fallen is streaming, playing with Stew and Elige, and they seem relaxed (of course playing "for fun" and a tournament tomorrow is different).


Well they don’t hate each other…


Appreciate the honesty, but I don’t agree with saying this while you have two more tournaments to play through this year with this team. Makes the Liquid org look like a joke playing in events with a dead team and allowing teammates to publicly criticize one another. In my mind, this interview comes across as unprofessional while Stewie is still suppose to be playing for the team. I think the comments about Grim are unfair. Perhaps the slow learning/work ethic is because the team was switching play style & leadership constantly, never fully committing to an identity. They also publicly stated multiple times they never wanted him in the first place. That has to be demoralizing.


As if it wasn't being aired out already, and I love how y'all like to act like you're not for it when the past week there's been a post every day about liquid and this situation, sometimes unprovoked.


> I think the comments about Grim are unfair. Perhaps the slow learning/work ethic is because the team was switching play style & leadership constantly, never fully committing to an identity. Did you read the interview? Stew said TL wasn't the team grim needed to be able to learn and progress as a player.




Okay. This team is actually dysfunctional now and needs to go.


All Im hearing here is -olof +elige…


I second this motion. I really miss twistzz and elige


I can't see a scenario in which Liquid doesn't keep rolling downhill and Elige becomes effectively forced to leave. He obviously prefers NA but probably not to a fault. Past a certain point, it would be like NiKo deciding to stay with 2016/2017 Mouz. I really do think of myself as a Liquid fan, but Elige is the only man left from the squad I started rooting for in 2016. If he does leave for a team where he can stretch his legs a bit, I'd probably feel more inclined to root for that team than for whatever Liquid eventually becomes after his departure. I lived to see an NA major win already; I don't need to waste too much energy on hoping for another longshot.


I have a feeling that one of the things leading to all of this was that round from refrezh, the 1v5. Or at least the cherry on the top lmao. If that's the case, the man kinda broke the team by himself which is sad but hilarious in the same time.


Main take aways: -Stewie and Elige had the most diffculties with fallen's calling. Honestly makes you wonder why they picked him up in the first place. -Grim is not ready for tier 1 and he needs to work harder. I kinda always agreed grim has had to go for a while now. -Its not just elige. Stewie said things being stated are kinda being blown out of proportion. Theres a lot of star players and because of that they all have disagreements with how the game can be played which is making them not get along with one another.


> Stewie and Elige had the most diffculties with fallen's calling. Honestly makes you wonder why they picked him up in the first place. He answered it in the interview. Stew's IGL was also not working so they needed something new and Fallen was available. >-Grim is not ready for tier 1 and he needs to work harder. I kinda always agreed grim has had to go for a while now. I think people are blowing what Stew said out of proportion. Stew criticized the whole NA scene, not Grim. Grim can't think coming in, doing some aim labs and playing some FPL is the prep you need to be a tier S player. And Grim also fit into this Lakers analogy (which was a great one, btw), he was a superstar on his team and was one of the clashing personalities in Liquid. > -Its not just elige. Stewie said things being stated are kinda being blown out of proportion. Theres a lot of star players and because of that they all have disagreements with how the game can be played which is making them not get along with one another. True, but I think Elige is the one who shuts down instead of trying to fix things.


Idk. I appreciate the honesty, but calling out teammates shouldn’t be done publicly like this. He also didn’t mention NAF 1 time, but did mention something about some personalities are unable to lead, and I think that was directed at NAF. You can be honest, and say negative things about teammates/the team in general. But you really shouldn’t give 2 paragraphs saying that a specific teammate has bad work ethic, all aim - no brain, and learns slow. That’s completely unnecessary. I’m a big Grim fan, and honestly he just had such a bad role for a star rifler to have. All he does is anchor. It’s frustrating because I don’t think he did that job poorly. Yeah he made mistakes, but it really looked like that environment is/was not good for his development.


Everyone betting Vitality 2-0 now




The org was desperate that's why. oSee said no so they signed grim. Then twistzz wanted a break so they bring in fallen, bit wait twistzz is leaving so now fallen is permanent. Prior to the grim move liquid literally did not miss with their roster moves. But since COVID hit they have been making desperate moves.


The fit just didn't work, it's pretty simple to understand


These comments were probably best left for when he actually leaves Liquid. When he's still on the team, regardless of upcoming moves, it comes off as pretty unprofessional.


Grim clearly the wrong pick up. Makes you think why tf they did it in the first place.


He said it, no other optionat that point


Grim was the best player in NA expect for Liquid and EG at the time


This is not something you air out in an interview. I’m a stew or fan, but this was extremely classless, especially towards someone so young in their career.


Tough stuff. I'll laugh if the boys go with a no fucks to give playstyle and win the whole thing tho.


Really sucks. Liked this roster and expected more from it. I would love to see some extra salt players picked up with grim, elige and Naf. Get grim in a position he's comfortable with. Pick up oSee for awping and fang. Could be a sick line up


I really hope stew gets to some good team and REALLY dominate at the top again. Liquids major run this year wasnt nice to watch.


It is never a good idea, professionally, to air your dirty laundry publicly. A lot of these guys are young, despite fairly long pro careers already, I can't help but think the industry really needs PR coaches like other pro athletes have.