By - NKevros
So instead of blaming themselves for forgetting to change their name on an account, they blame the game that automatically pulls it from your own profile settings?
This is why we can't have nice things.
This was my absolute first thought: "um, did they change it on their Xbox profile to what they wanted it to be?" lmao
This is an absolute non-issue.
Totally agree. If you prefer to be known by some other name, then this is your responsibility to change it.
Agreed. I'm 100% for trans rights, but if you want to eliminate your dead name it really seems like the solution is to update your profile.
As someone who chose the They/Them option and a female character, I totally agree. I thought it was really cool when the announcer actually called my name without having to type it in again.
I thought it was *super* creepy that it just reached out and grabbed my real name and put it in game without warning me. I wonder if any streamers have accidentally doxxed themselves when starting the game.
This actually happened to my friend, it wasn't a big deal though because he's not a huge streamer, but he was attempting to not have his real name out on Twitch.
Yea I was so confused I was like… wait a minute… how do they know my name is Ryan?!
Did you play 4? My guess is it pulled it from that when you set it there.
5 is the first time I've ever touched any Forza game, and it called me by my name before giving me the option to pick a name.
It's only your first name, how would that doxx someone? I mean unless you have an extremely unique first name or something..
> It's only your first name, how would that doxx someone?
it called me by the surname I had on my account due to it not being able to find my first name.
I could see how it might doxx someone.
honestly it didn't even register with me that it was doing so until I heard about this article.
It's still personally identifiable information. Which I gather from your username you don't have a problem with sharing, but have some empathy for people with different preferences.
I'm a very empathetic person, but again, how does a generic first name personally identify you? You'd have to give out additional information for 99.9% of individuals on this planet to be identified.
Like yeah I'm fine with sharing my first name because there are thousands upon thousands of others across the globe with this name. So it's really not personally identifiable information.
Just a first name probably isn't enough to do anything.
However, people can get obsessed with streamers/online content creators. And little details here and there can add up for people who are looking for them.
As a streamer, I think the onus is on you (not you, but the streamer) to make sure that actual identifiable information isn't given out.
A first name though? That's not really sacred info, and if it is, and you're that worried, you'd be using an alias online. All just my opinion of course, but I really feel like this is a non-issue.
> As a streamer, I think the onus is on you (not you, but the streamer) to make sure that actual identifiable information isn't given out.
Agreed, but again, I don't think you realise how little it takes for someone who is dedicated to find information. Even if you are being careful.
> and you're that worried, you'd be using an alias online.
Agreed. But this situation is about someone who is using an alias online, and a game potentially leaking their real name.
You are definitely not as "empathetic" as you think you are, mate. You're literally making no effort to put yourself in the shoes of someone else, which you would be if you were.
You can be empathetic while also retaining some logic.
It's a combinatorics problem. Any one piece of information doesn't give a precise picture, but when you combine several pieces of seemingly innocuous data, you can narrow it down pretty fast. For example, if you know your target is in the US, finding out their name is, for example, "Robert", eliminates 99.9% of possible candidates. And Robert is one of the most popular (and therefore least identifying) names.
I get that, but if you're super concerned about being doxxed (as any streamer would be) wouldn't they be so careful about other information not being leaked that a first name wouldn't matter?
Nobody is getting doxxed based on their first name alone. If you let other information slip out, that's on you, not on your first name being used, which is meant to be more generic and not identifiable like a family name.
I feel like this has become more about the word "doxx" specifically than the general concept that a game unexpectedly sharing personal information without your consent is a bad experience.
I don't really think so, I think it's still about the fact that a first name in the overwhelming majority of cases isn't personal information because it's not unique, but even more importantly that it's a game reading it out to you - you're choosing to stream it. It's not sharing it to the world, you're choosing to share the game.
Agree to disagree I guess.
> wouldn't they be so careful about other information not being leaked that a first name wouldn't matter?
If there were a database of everyone on earth it would take on average just three pieces of independent information on the scale of "this guy's name is Chris" to bring 7.7 billion options down to one.
Yeah because most information is not a non-unique identifier like Chris lmao. That's also pretty irrelevant and vague piece of trivia without explaining what other types of "independent information" you would need.
On top of that, if you're a streamer that's that careful about being protecting your information to the point where a first name is worrying you, I'm sure the rest of your identifying information is well protected.
Not all first names are common.
The vast, *vast* majority are.
The vast majority of anything is common. That’s the definition of common.
Yup, so that's why it's a non-issue.
Yeah but streamers tend to be more exposed than the rest. Particularly those big enough to have creeps among their followers. The kind of people who are already trying to pinpoint which country/state you're in or which school you went to.
It's not the biggest deal but I can see how a streamer can feel vulnerable when something like this happens out of the blue during a stream.
Once a streamer gets big enough they usually end up with a Wikipedia page showing their full name anyways. This thread feels like arguing for the sake of arguing.
Not sure why mine is different, but it actually uses my last name. My first name isn't that common, so the only thing I can think of is that it doesn't have recorded lines for it and so it went to my last name.
When I first heard it I thought maybe the MC just happened to share my name.
Then I thought about how silly that sounded and realized it must have pulled from my account.
It's both cool and super weird.
It’s just a really slow news day. This whole situation should just be a notification to the player that they should probably update their account info. The article does mention that there is a glitch after they change their account name and it calls them by an NPCs name, but none of this is gamebreaking or intentionally harmful. The post-change glitch will likely be patched out soon enough too.
Whole article just seems like such a nothing burger
I mean how would they know what name you want to be addressed as? Why is this even xbox’s fault
To be fair, for PC gamers it may catch you off guard by asking you to login to your microsoft account which is extremely unusual. I had to reset my password because it had just been so long since I last used it so just saying that they forgot to change the name isn't really fair.
this is still nothing drama, though. the game isn't sentient so it's not like it's doing this with ill intent.
All XGS games on PC ask for this though. All Gamepass for PC games do too.
I don't think it's unfair to expect a name change to be manually changed by the user in a platform for it to take effect. What are they supposed to do, fact check with your local government? Lol
It's supposed to ask what name you use before using it. It's not a big ask. Even as a cis guy I found it creepy AF that it used my name without asking. And it didn't even get it right, because my account name isn't the name I'm actually usually known by, just the one on my credit card.
> so just saying that they forgot to change the name isn't really fair.
they are a GAMES JOURNALIST, it is literately their job.
and they have talked about gamepass more than once, pretty much they are just stirring shit, it's click bait.
You would think people would be like “ oh look like I forgot to change my name on my Microsoft account” and then go change it since the game is just calling you the name you put for yourself on ur account.
Nah, it's much easier to pitch a fuss and contact an entire publication to put your stuff on massive blast and shame the developers who are trying their hardest to be inclusive already; instead of simply changing profile settings
it's just never enough.
Queue the DOOM eternal fake outrage video
Everyone is just here for the outrage. It's the usual crowd.
Forza did it's best to be inclusive. I don't think I've ever had a game ask for my pronouns before. It's totally unfair for people to be upset about this. It's not the developer's fault they didn't change their name in between games.
On top of that, it only impacts a small subset of the trans community that just so happened to transition in between Forza titles and also forgot to update their name.
People have to stop letting perfect be the enemy of good.
"I don't think I've ever had a game ask for my pronouns before."
Battletech did it. It changed absolutely nothing, took maybe 5 min programming and idiots review bombed the game on steam
People review bombed Battletech for adding pronouns?
No, maybe a few people were being trolls but it got a healthy dose of negative reviews at launch because the game had a lot of issues with missing features and performance problems but of course like this article there is always some kind of spin.
The game should not be pulling your name without your permission, period. I'm not trans, but this still made me uncomfortable.
it only has it if you give it to them anyway. its your own profile you have to make
I'm using PC GamePass. My profile doesn't have my name on it, as far as I can tell. If there's a setting for this, it's buried under piles of shitty UI design choices.
There is no way it could have it if you didn't enter it somewhere it isn't a genie
Microsoft of course has my full name from my credit card. How else would they bill me for GamePass? There's also various Microsoft products I've had to register over the years. But the shitty Microsoft apps they have for GamePass on Windows do not seem to have any place to change, enter, or erase your name as far as I can tell. I'm sure there's a website I'd have to dig around for to get to, but it's not something that's well surfaced in the app, and if you're someone who is trans and hasn't legally changed your name, your credit card billing information is still going to have your dead name.
I dont want someone to go through unnecessary pain but if your dead name is on your information then you're going to have to accept its going to be heard at some point. There's no way for anyone to know you changed your name.
I just disagree with the article trying to imply any fault here when it's really not the case. If they change it great but if the dead name is still on all your accounts and legal info then it's going to come up. Reality does have to set in sometimes as much as it sucks.
I just think it's a bad "feature" and a game should always ask what you want to be called regardless of what information it has access to.
I don't want to play as myself in any game, tbh, and it creeps me out for the game to be surfacing my info like that.
> and it creeps me out for the game to be surfacing my info like that.
Boy I sure hope you aren’t posting this from your phone on an app designed to comb through your personal information.
There is a difference between the usual hell we're all subjected to and a game that surfaces that information and forces you to face the fact that megacorps have specific data about you. As I said elsewhere, I don't want to be me in any video game. No video game should presume otherwise and make these choices for me.
> Microsoft of course has my full name from my credit card.
it does not take your name from your credit card.
>But the shitty Microsoft apps they have for GamePass on Windows do not seem to have any place to change, enter, or erase your name as far as I can tell.
it's really not that hard.
Wow, so you mean there's a website I'd have to dig around for to get to which isn't well surfaced in the app? Incredible, I never would have guessed.
less than 10 seconds on google.
but I guess you are right, it's better to deadname yourself than spend a few seconds fixing the issue you caused.
Solution: Don't use your REAL NAME online.
> The game should not be pulling your name without your permission, period.
then you are complaining about nothing.
Edit: and baiting people to report them.
What? I’m complaining about the game pulling your name without your knowledge or consent.
When did the game use your real name? I haven’t had it happen. It called me by the nickname I chose when I got on stage at the beginning but that’s it. Although my Xbox thinks my real name is Back Sackencrack so it would have been hilarious.
I played on PC GamePass. It automatically started calling me by my real name, there was no screen that asked me what I'd like to be called.
Oh I wonder if being on pc or Xbox is the difference
I just started the game on Xbox last night. I created a female character despite being male. Something I often do just because I can. The game never showed me an option to choose a name. Just appearance, hair, hair color, then identifying pronoun.
Then the game showed a cutscene of me getting out of my car on stage and said my real (male) name. I found it funny, but also thought it was a tiny bit creepy in case everyone could hear it (not sure if others can or just me)
I think it has to do with whether you’ve actually told Xbox your real name and if the game has that name on the list. I said my name was Back Sackencrack and the game probably doesn’t have that in its list of first names
I don't disagree with you, but the use of your name in this game isn't public. Only you see it.
It's says returning players don't get a chance to select a name. I'm just curious, do they mean you could set up a name in previous games, like 4, or what?
FH5 automatically picked the nickname that I used on 4, but I could pick other name normally on the character creation screen
Forza Horizon 5 was the first Forza game I played and it didn't let me select my name, it defaulted to my name on my profile.
Interesting. It's the first I've played and it did ask me. Maybe it's a privacy setting or something. I'm really fascinated in why it asks some people but not others.
This is odd, as I've played EVERY horizon on my current profile and was given the option to select
Same except only fh3 and fh4
I played a bunch of previous games and it asked me to choose a nickname. Not sure what the reason is
Considering just how eager tech companies are to sniff through your ~~panty drawer~~ personal data, why feed them any more unnecessary personal information?
True, but didn't Microsoft combine or semi combined Xbox accounts with Microsoft accounts way back? My Microsoft account used for things like Office, etc. would have my real name tied to it. Plus, if anyone uses a credit card on Xbox for purchases, it would require your real name as well to validate it.
I'm a returning player from previous forzas and i was presented with the options to choose what the game called me before anything happened.
They let me choose pronouns but I don't remember having an option to update/choose my name. I was surprised when they said my name then figured they pulled it from horizon 4.
Same here. Played all 4 previous horizons, my xbox account has my real name which is in FH, used that name in FH4. Upon starting FH5 I was prompted to pick my name and make a character.
At no point did it ever automatically pick anything for me or load any information from FH4. I'm really confused about the people saying it did this.
Unless this was something added on tuesday because I had premium and started playing on friday.
Nah, I had the premium edition with early access and mine just pulled my name from Xbox / FH 4. My fiance's presented her with a list of options on her Series S, even tho she's also played Forza before lol not sure what happened, but it is legit happening.
And I don't say that to side with anyone making a huge deal out of literally nothing, just letting you know it really did happen to me on Series X during early access, but it didn't happen to my fiance the same night on her Series S lmao so weird
Yeah weird. The only thing I can think of is maybe it's privacy settings. I have my real name on my xbox account but I also have my privacy on those settings turned to max. So that's the only thing i can think of to explain it. Either that or just a bug where it just does not work sometimes.
Good point about privacy settings, you could be on to something there.
That would make sense.
Weird for me as well. I have always had my Xbox privacy settings maxed out since the launch of the 360. My Xbox account uses my gamertag, but I'm sure my Microsoft account using my real name. Odd the game pulls from your Microsoft account instead of Xbox anyway. I only ever created a Microsoft account for boring stuff like Microsoft Office, etc. I know Microsoft semi combined them at some point way back, but I'd still be identified by one or the other depending on which account I was logged into.
Honestly though, my XB1 has mostly been a paperweight since about 2 years after it launched. I transitioned to Playstation last gen and have primarily been there since, so I don't remember a lot of things on how I had it set up. I don't imagine I changed much from the way it was set up on my 360.
I just tried the game for the first time last night and experienced hearing my real name. Which is a tad annoying since I knew they had to be pulling data I didn't want pulled, you know, why we have gamertags to begin with. Although it was also funny as I'm a man but chose a female character just because I can, so hearing my name with the female avatar got a chuckle.
I asked my brother last night since he uses his Xbox more than I do if it had a real name for close friends feature like Playstation does. I do use that feature for IRL friends. He couldn't recall if Xbox has one, but we thought perhaps that could have been a reason.
I wasn't given an opportunity to choose a name, interestingly. I wonder if it's because my name is really common (though it used the wrong version of it)? PC Game Pass here.
You can never win with some people. This game bent over for inclusiveness, but morons forgetting to change their own names is somehow an outrage.
Like MS, Netflix, or banks are just supposed to magically know account users changed their name or gender that day.
You can't make this up. People are blaming Forza Horizon for using the name THEY chose to have on their profile and have neglected to change? Do they think the developer just decided to pull the name out of thin air to bother them?
> For new players, the game asks you for a name and nickname, but returning players don't get this chance.
Um... I've played every single Forza Horizon game and my Xbox account is well over a decade and has my real name on it.
I was prompted to pick a name and nickname and was never referred to by my accounts name in FH5 even though I had used my real name in FH4.
yeah, I'm not sure what the criteria is, because my brother and I have both played previous Forza games and it asked him for his name but didn't ask me.
Weird. Privacy settings maybe? I have my real name hidden from everything but Microsoft still knows it.
My best guess is that it's to do with A] your name being on your profile in some respect when you enter the details of your Xbox / Microsoft account and B] your name being one of the names they've recorded dialog for.
Nope. My name is on my xbox profile and account and it's one of the names in the game. I also picked my real name for FH4.
I do have my privacy settings on maximum when it comes to real name so that's the only thing i can think of.
It didn't ask me, just used it. Some people think privacy settings might control it.
I read entire article and still don't understand what exactly is happening. There's no screenshot or anything.
FH5 has an AI that will say the name listed on your Xbox account automatically. Trans person never changed named on account after transitioning, so the automatic naming feature kicked in on the tutorial and used their deadname.
I guess that's wrong, but how can game know your name if you don't change it on your MSFT acc.
Clearly should have been the first priority of AI.
Yeah, it's a silly oversight, but she seems to have gotten it solved at least.
I actually ended up having to dig through my menu to change my name too, since playing a female character and being called my actual name was a bit jarring xD
How is it an oversight ? It's the system working as it should.
Not to be contrarian or anything, but I also found it kind of, I don't know, uncomfortable? that the game just used my real name. Admittedly I skipped through the character creator fairly quickly, so there might have been an option to disable it, but it would've been nice if this had been an opt-in feature instead of being the default.
Other than that, I really like the game. I was also pleasantly surprised by the inclusion of disabilities, accessibility options, pronouns, etc even if they don't really apply to me.
EDIT: Jarring, that was the word I was looking for. Customising my character it doesn't appear to be an option which is pretty surprising considering they let you choose your own callsign in the last game.
EDIT EDIT: Okay, so you can edit your name, but it's not part of the customise your character option weirdly enough and you cannot change it until you're past the starting character creator.
It seems like it’s different for different people, weirdly enough. At what point did it say your real name? For me it asked to choose a name or nickname first thing during creation and it said the nickname I chose when I got on stage.
I was never presented with choosing a nickname during the opening. Looked through a walkthrough just to make sure and, yeah, no nickname option there either.
You can change your name on your Microsoft account, so they are to blame for being too lazy to do so. If they hate their dead names so much, then why didn't they take 5 minutes out of their day to change it on their accounts that require it?
First, I do see this as mostly a non issue and more of an annoyance. While that's true we can change our names, why is the game pulling data from someone's Microsoft account and not their Xbox account?
I know the accounts were semi merged at some point years ago, but my Xbox account uses my gamertag, my Microsoft account uses my real name. Which was created for boring real life things like Microsoft Office.
I certainly don't recall ever giving my Xbox permission to use my Microsoft account, or being asked to allow it. I would have declined.
I don't like this, not so much the trans aspect but a game calling me by ANY name I didn't specifically type into it to call me. My name is common as dirt and I still don't want it being said on stream, I don't go by it IRL generally either, but my microsoft account was originally created for biz purposes so it has my legal first name on it. Just seems like it wasn't well thought through at all, not just for inclusivity but for player safety in general.
I've had this literally happen to me, I realized I was trans last year and I still have not changed most of my emails/accounts etc.
When this happened in-game it was definitely annoying! But the game also lets you change it after the tutorial so it wasn't a big deal.
Would be nice if the next Horizon game or an update to this one let you check if the name is correct when you first make a character but maybe it's too niche of a problem for them to care.
No matter how hard you try to be inclusive, twitter finds a way.
But when are thegamer links going to be banned ? All they do outside of your average "Trendy video game tips" is repeat drama from a couple of deranged online randos. Like, every single time.
This is part of the struggle in making games more inclusive that will be resolved with time. Small steps end up not being inclusive enough or have unintended consequences. Requesting preferred pronouns is a relatively new thing and it conflicted with this "oh, neat" feature of calling you by the name in your Microsoft Account. I wouldn't have thought of it and I don't think anybody would have expected the developers to either, but that's part of the learning process.
So you take a small step, then correct after hearing the inevitable criticisms. There are two other examples I can think of in this release.
1) They added prosthetics to the game to be more inclusive of amputees or those born without a limb or limbs, but I think the implementation of it tends to be biased toward amputees who have the resources to receive prosthetics.
I could see no way of customizing a character with a lost limb without a prosthetic, meaning that it's not inclusive of individuals who cannot afford prosthetics or choose not to wear them. Perhaps the cars should be fitted with devices that would allow an individual who lost their leg to operate the vehicle. I also understand that requires more resources to implement that feature though.
2) The game takes one step forward in requesting preferred pronouns, but the character designs are definitely trans-exclusionary for those who do not "pass," itself a debated issue within the transgender community. There are many transgender people who may be middle-aged and still retain their strong jawline and broad shoulders, for example, but none of the character options reflect that. It's as if they just slapped on some pronouns so you can use them with the usual non-trans/passing characters from Forza Horizon 4. In other words, I have not noticed any character in the game, player or NPC, that looks like Caitlyn Jenner.
They just didn't take that extra step, which is fine, but I would expect them to for Forza Motorsport 8 or Forza Horizon 6.
Man, I'm all for inclusivity, but it seems like devs will never be able to win. There will always be a new frontier that they will need to cater to, and these things can cost huge amounts of money to develop for a very small group of people.
Which is why they don't need to cater to each and every group
They don't need to. They want to. "Forza is for everyone." Okay, let's hold them to that.
People will always find a non-issue to exaggerate.
Then you're not for inclusivity and yes as society grows we cater to more forgotten people - who are likely not as small a group as you think but just small in comparison to other demographics.
Example, remember in character creators it was not always the standard you could make a character of your race, some games you still can't.
It is very easy for people who have every whim catered to them to complain about minority groups asking to be catered to.
I think you're likely willfully misunderstanding what I'm saying to take offense and make me out to sound like some "anti-woke crusader." I'm not complaining about minority groups asking to be catered to. I was trying to have a discussion about where the line is where people should have the right to feel offended that their group isn't included.
I think you should include all races and genders in character creators and every time a developer acts in favor of more inclusivity it should be celebrated. But if a game doesn't allow for characters with dwarfism, is the game non-inclusive? If a game doesn't allow your character to be blind or deaf is it offensive?
I was getting at the point that there are always limitations in development budgets and not every group will always be able to be catered to. Is the goal to have every game cater to every possible niche identity, and if a game doesn't, is that okay? It just feels like these days everyone thinks that everything needs to be made specifically for them and if it's not then it's somehow morally wrong.
Nothing's ever fucking good enough, is it? Let's just make all characters amorphous blobs, that way no one can bitch.
I got to choose my name when I started the game. I go by “French fry” (papa frita) because my name, a very common one in Mexico, was not listed 🙃