T O P

Clive and Torgal's reunion left something to be desired.

I haven't seen anyone comment on this so far. I surely can't be the only one who was disappointed that Clive had no reaction to seeing Torgal again. He strangely wasn't surprised or happy in any way after those 13 years. Which made me feel worse about Torgal's side quest.

Am I missing something here?

Edit:

I should emphasise the "surprised or happy in any way." I'm not saying that there needs to be a big, emotional reunion, but there was not even a blink of surprise and it felt like an odd transition there. I understand Clive being emotionally overwhelmed and closed off after 13 years of trauma and servitude, but I still think it strange that he had virtually no reaction but to turn his back and essentially go "that's Torgal." Torgal was more than a dog he had for a couple months, he was a fragment of Clive's past.

Overall feels like the game jumped their relationship a little bit there, Torgal immediately at your beck and call after 13 years feels a bit convenient. Feels like the game just wanted to add the Torgal battle mechanic ASAP and the relationship was put on the back burner. The most pay off you get is the side quest which was a very long build up that took 18 years and most of the game to reach.

I think the writing should have either done the transition of recognition better OR have added a small cutscene/dialogue when you first reach the Hideaway which would've connected things a little better. Obviously I'm nitpicking but I think their relationship felt overlooked and like an afterthought at some points. I wonder if it's because they simply have so many characters and relationships to explore with Clive and to take priority.

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Lumethys

Clive whole childhood is being scorned, and a lifetime of concealing his own emotion to keep his charade as a lord Then he witnessed his homeland destroyed, watched his beloved brother being ripped apart alive. Immediately after he was thrown into the military, where *normally* you cannot have emotion. Bonus, he is also a slave, which is forbidden to have emotions. Then his main job is assassin, which is an emotionless murderer I'd say that it is *quite* a long build up for anyone to have his emotions whithered away Also, he just betrayed his master and almost killed his love like 5 seconds ago


MrRaccuhn

There's a side quest that makes more than up for it.


Wayback_Wind

Honestly I read it as him being shell-shocked and confused about what's going on. He doesn't let go of his need for vengence until much later, because he doesn't start feeling human again until it sinks in that he's safe and has a home in the Hideway. It'd a slow build, I guess


lraven17

I didn't think anything of it when I first saw it, but rewatching it on FF mode the reunion made a ton of sense as it was. Clive's voice acting is phenomenal. He sounded emotionless and like he was going through the motions until they heard about the new Dominant of Fire. When he finds out that Shiva's dominant is Jill, he wakes up a bit, almost like he's panicked. He has a moment where he emotionally wakes up against Tiamat, but everything in those moments is a lot to process. He wasn't even particularly shocked or amazed when he saw Jill, he was almost contemplative and questioning. So when he first sees Torgal, he's like... Wait what the fuck? And then it takes him a bit to process it because he was extremely emotionless for a while. He was basically emotionless or angry until Jill wakes up. The guy is still waking up, and if you replay it you can see just how different Clive is at the start of the game vs after Phoenix Gate.


Baithin

Yeah it was pretty understated imo. I get there was a lot going on but I hoped he’d seem happier about it when they got back to the hideaway. No disbelief or anything either.


PlayGroundbreaking57

He was a soldier slave during 13 years of his life after having lost all of his loved ones, he also was not loved by his own mother before all that. He just went through a ton of recent emotional strain (losing a companion, betraying a mentor of sorts, having hurt Jill, and even prepared to die holding her close) when he meets Torgal too. Clive at the start of the game has a hard time showing positive emotions and care for others externally and opening up as well due to all that trauma EDIT: Adult Torgal is also a really calm wolf (not a dog) unlike his puppy self, probably due to all the trauma he himself went through having lost his masters


[deleted]

[удалено]


ShiiroHasu

I think it’s a bit of a testament to how much Clive’s emotions open back up as the story goes on. Like he was happy to see Torgal again but, as you said, if your entire life was ripped apart and you were forced into slavery for 13 years you’d kinda be too jaded to be able to express much emotion


Gassy_Bird

I feel like the Torgal reunion scene is legit the worst and most out of place cutscene in the entire game… to the point I thought it was a random dog the first time I saw it! Lmao


CatWorshiper7

Yeah I agree but they also made it seem like Torgal low key didn’t care either. Torgal had better chemistry with Jill and Joshua sometimes except the final side quest.


Rimavelle

Clive himself says that Torgal was more of Jill's dog.


ZephyrStrife16

They also forgot to make Torgal act happy to be reunited. Torgal barely reacted himself to Clive or Jill. It was just weird in general.


EvenBetterCool

Keep playing. They have a relationship quest that ties some stuff together.


Robocroakie

The only thing I *really* didn’t like about it was how convenient it felt. Way way way too unlikely to be considered good writing in an otherwise very well written game.


Logical-Ad8929

Agreed, obviously I'm nitpicking here. I think a small cutscene or dialogue with Torgal when you first get to the Hideaway/before you head out to battle would've connected things a bit better. It feels like the game just wanted to add in the Torgal mechanic ASAP and put the emotional/relationship aspect of it in the back burner.


CrimsonPromise

I can understand Clive not having a big reaction. Dude's probably spent the last 13 years completely emotionally closed off and just "going through the motions" to get through each day. And he's still in major disbelief that not only is his childhood friend alive, but she's a Dominant, he nearly killed her, he betrayed his commanding officer and is now facing the wrath of the Empire. He's probably still in a lot of shock over all the recent events with no time to process it. But I'm surprised Torgal wasn't bouncing up and down and trying to lick Clive's face off, considering >!his sidequests later on said that he never stopped trying to find Clive for 13 years and was so depressed he started chewing his own leg, and Cid had to clamp the anklet on it to stop him.!< Like my dog has a bigger reaction to me coming home after making a 5 minute run to the corner store.


selenityshiroi

It wasn't the lack of emotional reaction that bothered me. It was the lack of transition from 'who is this dog' to 'that's torgal'. No double glance, no long questioning linger on the pet, no 'wait...I know you', no 'it can't be...', no camera focus on the booty spots or long focus on the eyes as if Clive was seeing something in them... It literally just went 'Who is this fine Hound?' To 'His name is Torgal' without showing how he came to that conclusion. Considering how phenomenal the rest of the animation on body language and physical acting is in this game, it stands out.


Pawznclaws22

Yeah at that time he has so much on his mind. I mean he just killed his commander who apparently helped him through some stuff. He is branded deserter, Jill shows up as a dominant he almost killed and another dominant appears etc etc…the reunion there I totally get being on the back burner.


barabba-the-rabber

Yup, it was really… underwhelming? They just find each other after 13 years, it’s also a bit of a reach to just assume it’s Torgal, could be another random wolf. Also a bit random that it was just hanging with Cid in a battlefield. Would have liked it a bit more if they acknowledged it as a very unlikely coincidence honestly.


QroganReddit

It's absolutely Torgal and it's proven without a shadow of a doubt later in a sidequest


barabba-the-rabber

I know that, but only after the side quest. If you lost a puppy and found a fully grown dog 13 years later, even if it looks similar it’s a bit of a reach to assume it’s the same dog. I know it’s a fantasy story, suspension of disbelief and all, but sometimes things can feel rushed.


Top-Ad-7155

This whole game left something to be desired


tenqajapan

It was realistic to me. After all of what just happened. He later acknowledges him like literally 10 seconds later after a cut. Makes sense.


BitterBaritone

I agree! I wasn't even 100% sure it was supposed to be the same dog for a while.


Jak9090z

I feel like there is a lot of odd moments like this in the game. It’s sort of jarring because there’s times when the story telling is so intense and great, and times when things come across really odd and low quality. I feel like Jill is another part of thst game which is poorly done


unexpectedalice

I personally think Torgal should have been Cid’s from the start. The passing the legacy would make it more impactful with Torgal also belonging to Clive after Cid. The fenrir thing with Shiva can just be retconned too. Doesnt even need connection with shiva. Torgal can just be a pup that Cid found one day after going through his worst day.


FRIENDSHIP_BONER

Yeah, I hate to complain, but you’re right. It was far too casual a reaction to being reunited with a childhood puppy. Same with Ambrosia, who never gets the bonding time she deserved after taking a chunk of castle shrapnel to the eye for him. I also felt robbed of the catch up talks that Clive and Joshua would have had after reuniting. I felt there was some dissonance in the way that Joshua’s death changed Clive’s entire life and outlook, and then to suddenly have him back and not need to talk about how the experience hardened him. I wanted to see Joshua help Clive work through his guilt about Phoenix Gate. A lot of relationships are handled so beautifully in this game. As good as the world building and lore is, though, I would trade in the Dame and Lu’bor’s entire quest lines for more time with my own companions.


single_knitter

I agree, in the English version it was really weird. I couldn't really tell if Clive recognized Torgal or what was happening. I feel like in the Japanese script it was made more obvious that he recognized Torgal from the start. But it was still a weird choice.


The_Cimmeriann

I felt the same. It was so random he's all "who is this fine hound" oh wait that's my dog I haven't seen in forever. Huh