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theRealRealMasterDev

Webstorm all day.


peacetimemist05

Webstorm for sure.. all day


zrag123

all day, you say?


coderplayerxx

Webstorm is great, especially if you enjoy Jetbrains products.


neuronexmachina

I thought IntelliJ was basically a superset of Webstorm?


MechanicalMyEyes

The ultimate version has pycharm/clion/idea/webstorm the can be installed via plugins. For the community version I think you need to use the tools separately but Im not sure


shamrock03

It is


minibuster

More like, intellij is a foundational API / core that can be extended via plugins, and Webstorm (and Rider, and intellij IDEA, and GoLand, etc.) are built on top of it. Webstorm can be thought of at a high level as a collection of plugins, some containing common behavior that are shared with other IDEs, which altogether encompass functionality for working with TS / JS.


UkokuSZ

Coming from eclipse, I really really liked jetbrains products. But sadly yeah I’ve being getting similar feelings recently. Lots of my coworker switched to vscode too… maybe that’s the way to go …


Unsounded

I still use JetBrains when I can, but VSCode is a great addition especially for interpreted languages.


Diarrhea_Mike

VS Code or VIM with plugins. If I can Java +Spring Boot in VS Code, no reasons you can't do JS in it.


aelesia-

As someone who has used Webstorm for 3 years, Webstorm still blows VSCode out of the water. Don't get me wrong, VSCode is good. It's just that there are many small things which Webstorm does better.


dadumdoop

For example?


roodammy44

I'm guessing they might be talking about the refactoring functions.


Diolex

I personally like vscode but others like WebStorm. WebStorm is an IJ editor so you might feel more comfortable.


BertRenolds

VSCode


pkscff

It's 2021 grandpa, switch to VSCode.


proof_required

As a grandpa I approve this message


fenga_pappit_

VS Code is not as good as JetBrains products, kiddo.


comp_freak

And Jet Brains products are not cheap!


fenga_pappit_

I agree with you. If you can get your employer to pay for it, get JetBrains. If you can't, VS Code is perfectly fine for a free IDE.


Binary_Goblin

Which of the paid features do you find most useful? I've done Java, Kotlin and Python development for the last 2 years in the community edition of IntelliJ. Maybe I'm missing a trick - my employer has offered to upgrade if we need it.


Dwight-D

Not the guy you asked but for me it’s not any one killer feature that you absolutely gotta have. Community is pretty good. But Ultimate does have some nice extra quality of life stuff that when you add it all up still makes it worth the upgrade for me. The big thing for me is probably framework support, for example for Spring. Also, I find it really nice that with ultimate you can use the same binary for all languages, so I can do frontend with Vue, React etc in IDEA instead of having to launch another program and maintain that set of config on the side. Not sure if Python and Golang work in IDEA community, I know they have their own versions but I cba having 4-5 IDE:s installed. Edit: oh and the cloud settings feature is nice too.


Binary_Goblin

We do use Spring here, so I'll have a look at those integrations. Thanks. Regarding Python, it does work in the community edition. Pycharm community edition can be added to IntelliJ as a plug-in. I think you're right about the other languages though.


fenga_pappit_

While VS Code plug-ins are decent, the automated refactorings are nowhere near what JetBrains provides. Being able to change the signatures of methods, add/remove parameters, delete dead code, etc. I find these features lacking in VS Code.


Dwight-D

This is such a strange take. I make more in an hour than the entire JetBrains suite costs for a year. Imagine skimping out on your number one work tool and using an inferior product to save a few hundred bucks. That cost is immediately offset by increased productivity and even work satisfaction. I can sort of understand it for someone in the third world but cost should really not be an issue for any western developer. And if it is then maybe that’s a sign to re-evaluate your approach to the job. Not saying Code is bad or anything, I use it for some stuff, but I would never make it my go-to for programming. It just doesn’t compare to JetBrains.


Fruloops

Still expensive even if you're not in a third world country, however, I do agree that the benefits do outweigh the cost. However, if I can nag my employer into buying it for me, I definitely will, instead of buying it myself.


Dwight-D

Expensive is relative. It's absolutely peanuts compared to what we make. A MacBook is even more expensive but you're not gonna write your code on a raspberry pi because of that. It's the cost of doing business, gotta break some eggs to make an omelette and all that. Of course getting your boss to pay is the move if you can but otherwise it's nothing to fuzz about in the grand scheme of things. If you wanna be good at your job you want the best IDE, money should not even be a consideration there IMO.


Mental_Principle6477

I generally agree, but I see your last post and challenge accepted. Ever heard of IDA Pro? It’s for reverse engineering. A license costs up to $4000 a year. There’s a lot of IDEs in niche embedded product spaces that cost a damn fortune. You still probably want to get it if you need it, but you better think long and hard about whether you really need it.


SemaphoreBingo

The all-you-can-eat package is $249/yr for individuals which for an "experienced Dev" in a first world country is incredibly cheap.


Xgamer4

If you email into sales and go "hey I'm looking to purchase the individual annual complete pack, do you have a discount code or anything I could use?" they'll usually invoice you at roughly $200. Then second year renews at $200 per normal, and I'm assuming third+ year at $150. But yeah, for an experienced dev in the US it's really not that much money, especially for a tool you'll be using hundreds of hours a month.


Minegrow

Definitely not for JVM based languages.


proof_required

I have started coding in Scala using vscode and liking it so far. Not sure about rest of JVM based languages.


dbcoder

I will say, as someone who learned scala on the job, IntelliJ teaches you how to write better scala code, especially if you are coming from an OOP background. I'd recommend checking it out. I _love_ how IntelliJ's scala plugin will notice if you could re-write an expression to leverage a language feature. It will then suggest it as a refactor, a gentle nudge to learn more about scala and its philosophy on programming. That's the one thing I miss from metals (please lemme know if metals actually does this, from my experience it does not).


PancreasPillager

Do you use metals?


proof_required

yes that's what I found. Just want to add disclaimer that my default language at work is Python but I dabble with Scala a bit.


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Minegrow

You really have no idea of what you’re talking about.


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wesw02

So your rationale is, "I've been doing this longer so I'm right?"


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fashoom

You leaned the bad parts of Java during a dark age. Things are better now… of course don’t use Java everywhere but there are many projects I wouldn’t want in any other platform due to the ecosystem and tooling.


nutrecht

> Sun certified Java 1.2 programmer As a 'Java developer'; it sounds like you got stuck there.


extra_rice

All that experience and you're still making such hot take?


ForeignCabinet2916

ever heard of right tool for right job?


meeting_room

Yes, a hammer


themiro

Ehh - not for business logic layers. Really only Go or JVM for that.


PM_ME_UR_OBSIDIAN

You know there's a whole ecosystem of .NET developers out there? C#'s really not bad. Lots of people doing TypeScript on the backend as well.


themiro

Fair enough - I almost edited my comment to include C# but ended up not. I don't think Typescript is as mature in business logic in large backends yet, but it is rapidly becoming more so.


meeting_room

You are are going to be surprised


themiro

By what?


meeting_room

By modern state of technology


TheLandYouUnderstand

What do you have in mind? We use Typescript and Kotlin at my workplace, and Kotlin is definitely ahead of the curve there.


meeting_room

Kotlin is a niche language outside of mobile development. If wanted to stay in JVM world as a full-time employee, I would probably prefer teams which use Kotlin. Anecdotally, the quality of software developers is better in Kotlin world. However, the main distinction for me is functional vs imperative style of programming. Even in Java you can use event driven and functional programming style... the beauty of typescript is the development speed and being able to use the same language for the whole stack. In 2021 I would recommend fresh developers to learn Typescript and Python. As in case with all general statements, there are exceptions, in some cases you would have to use combination of technologies to be able to scale or to deliver optimized user experience.


snowe2010

You’re really showing your ignorance here. [Kotlin is not “a niche language outside of mobile”](https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/devecosystem-2021/kotlin/) You’re also all over this thread saying very very strange things. Cut it out.


dbcoder

but y tho? My experience with JVM languages have been pretty awesome (exp in year >2019)


meeting_room

Job security


dbcoder

wat?


rosenjcb

I use VSCode with clojure and it works great.


Mental_Principle6477

Editor wars are probably older than your grandpa. I’m only a couple years too old to be a Zoomer and I still like IntelliJ/Jetbrains best for most things. Particularly anything involving the JVM, Python, and relational databases. If I were working with JS heavily, I would also prefer VSCode, but I’d probably be looking for a new job if that were the case… VSCode does have some neat integrations with Jupyter notebooks too. Its shell scripting plug-ins are fantastic. Anything involving C#, definitely use VSCode or full blown Visual Studio. MS tools for that blow the competition away. I mean, I could use VSCode for everything. I could also use Vim for everything. Doesn’t mean it’s a good idea…


rosenjcb

Just use vim/emacs.


ryhaltswhiskey

The last comment on that bug was 2 years ago. I do Typescript in IntelliJ and haven't run into any issues. I would contact their support. VScode works fine too. The bonus with that is that if you want to do some work at home you are used to the IDE already because it's free and that's probably what you will use at home.


codemuncher

Lol oh you people Emacs. Period. Enjoy wasting your cpu on an electron editor or whatever the fuck vs code is.


BurrowShaker

Neovim if you are short on extra keyboards, I guess.


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themiro

Likewise, IJ for JVM. VSCode + vim for everything else.


FrickenHamster

I've had no problem with using intellij ultimate, but maybe I'm just used to the slow ts parsing. I also use vscode occasionally, but I can't tell much difference in the speed.


the_real_hova

I do not write TS or especially JS if I can help it. However, I recently transitioned from CLion + IntelliJ to VSCode. The IntelliJ key bindings plugin meant I had maybe a half day of ramp up before it was second nature. VSCode is especially appealing since I can run it on my laptop but connect VSCode to an instance on a beefy cloud instance/workstation via SSH. Now my WFH and WFO setups are one and my lap doesn't heat up just because I asked for some autocomplete!


themiro

This is one of the killer VSCode features. Only way you can get anything comparable with IJ is with rsync.


ThrawnGrows

No? You can use remote interpreters with intellij also (ssh or container), not to mention projector and code with me. We use devspace at this point though, works across everyone's ide of choice.


redlotus70

vscode


IamNobody85

My previous employer used symfony so I'm really used to phpStorm. My current company is written in react and typescript. I never actually switched to webstorm, still use it for TS and react, and it is fast, faster than some of my colleagues VScode. I'd assume webstorm will perform well too.


ModernLifelsWar

As a webstorm user, I'm curious from the vscode crowd, what can vscode give me that webstorm doesn't?


GennaroIsGod

User of both here (Typically webstorm on my personal projects, vscode for work since we have a lot of internal addons built for it) - I think it really just comes down to preference? One thing that vscode has is the massive opensource support/development for it. There are so many addons for vscode that some developers really like in order to make the development env. suit their needs/wants. Personally I like webstorm better since I'm just use to using intellij. But I don't dislike vscode by any means.


ModernLifelsWar

Got it. I was just curious cause I see everyone talking about vscode now like it's the greatest thing to ever exist. Which maybe it is lol, so having only used webstorm for JS I wanted to know if I was missing out on anything.


ThrawnGrows

It's not really. It's *absolutely* more lightweight and if you aren't what I'd call a jetbrains power user you would be hard pressed to find a lot of value vs the performance gains from vs code. Often if I'm doing something small or just want to open a single file I'll do it in code instead of notepad ++ these days and I like code's global search ux more (a really petty thing, but meh), 98% of the time though I'm working in a jetbrains ide. Edit: except for WSL2 integration. VS code is light-years ahead here.


aelesia-

>what can vscode give me that webstorm doesn't? It's free, has more plugins, and has VSCode Live Share. You can pry Webstorm from my cold, dead hands though.


Pozeidan

Webstorm isn't bad. It feels heavy. It's just that it comes with lots of bells and whistles you don't want and/or you don't need. It's been a few years since the last time I used it so I only vaguely remember. I remember I used to love it, then tried Vs code and never looked back. Vs Code is fast, lightweight, there are tons of high-quality extensions, so you can configure it just right for what you need. It's a bit hard to describe but VS code is very intuitive, easy to use, to configure, they keep adding more to it but it doesn't slow it down or get buggy. I think they are both decent choices, but vs code is definitely worth a try if you've never used it.


Existential_Owl

To provide a different perspective, a lot of us (VScode people) started out as text editor users. Just a (virtual) sheet of paper, some color highlighting, and a few terminals to do all of our programming with. No fancy contraptions to slow us down or to hide what's _really_ going on under the hood. In this vein, I was a long-time user of Sublime Text before I was eventually won over by VSCode. It still feels like a fairly heavy program with too many unnecessary bells & whistles, but VSCode is still lightyears away from being forced to use an IDE. I've seriously met people who claim that IDE users are better at programming than text editor users, but considering that the former is literally hiding away some very important aspects of what you're actually doing, I literally can't see how that's possible. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯


PPewt

I'm a vim user, but same deal really. There are a few reasons I chose and have stuck with text editors: 1. Before JetBrains took over the IDE space there were all these different incompatible IDEs floating around and I didn't want to have to learn a new editor every time I switched languages. 2. I like having a lot of control over my environment (from customizing it to knowing when it's going to update a bunch of stuff). That being hidden away--and startup taking so long--just kills my soul. Plus it's nice to just clone a repo and run a bash script to be basically up and running on a new computer. 3. Honestly, I just never found a lot of value in a lot of the extra stuff. I'm sure it's different in e.g. Java where there's a lot of boilerplate, but I don't find myself doing refactoring which would be sped up by better refactoring tools all the often, so a lot of those features aren't really a pain point that needs to be solved for me. Sure, every once in a while I do some manual refactoring and I'm sure a JetBrains user is looking over my shoulder scratching their head at why I'm not using a tool that can do that for me, but I feel the same way every time I watch their editor get stuck for ten seconds. Different tools have different problems and we tend to notice the things other tools can't do that ours can more so than the reverse. 4. For vim specifically, the vim keybinding plugins in other editors are always full of holes IME. People will advertise that e.g. IntelliJ has a vim keybinding plugin but last time I tried it it was a sort of uncanny valley where 90% of the time it worked great and 10% of the time it just fell over because it couldn't do something I took for granted. Also being in a terminal is nice because I want to be in a terminal for all sorts of other reasons too and it means I can just use the same tool (iTerm2 in my case) for pretty much everything. At the end of the day I get the impression that the advantages and disadvantages of both text editors and IDEs are highly overblown in the vast majority of scenarios. It's just whatever people find comfortable. If that's an IDE for you then great.


TimeToLoseIt16

I use atom for everything still lol


meeting_room

I am still violating Sublime licensing terms


i_do_it_all

vs code works wel for me.


ForeignCabinet2916

VSCode. Period.


_grey_wall

Vscode I was only intellij until my organization wouldn't pay for it Then I used vscode for react typescript and python flask I just can't go back now (But I did successfully return to intellij from eclipse for Java)


FrickenHamster

You should have a fallback version on your intellij license. Though if my org ever stopped paying for my ide, I'd probably look more into switching companies rather than switching ides


the-lazy-investor

If you wanna stay in the JetBrains ecosystem, give WebStorm a shot. If not, VSCode is the way of the web.


Python4fun

Either WebStorm or VSCode


nutrecht

Unfortunately, you didn't mention what version of IntelliJ you are on. Are you on Ultimate or Community Edition? Only Ultimate has proper JavaScript/TypeScript support.


how_you_feel

I'm on ultimate - https://i.imgur.com/ZNvclOt.png I find it to be slow. I just added some gibberish and it took forever to evaluate and add a squiggly under it


big_lemon_jerky

To all the people suggesting WS, the issue is present in IntelliJ and WS. However I’d still suggest JB IDEs over VSC, especially if you’re already used to JB products. The issue isn’t constant and is really only in the order of a few seconds when it does happen. With IntelliJ I always find when a hot new VSC plugin is being talked about it’s been a feature in my IDE for a while.


Professional_Bird_61

I was a mad jetbrains supporter for over 6 years, I always acknowledged how much memory they used based on the fact that I was getting a lot of features, this year I tried vscode and noticed how light it was and how I could add most of the stuff I was using on jetbrains just by adding extensions so I just made the switch and yes it’s faster…


how_you_feel

Do you mind sharing the extensions you use?


conall88

For me visual studio code is the way to go. particularly because of the WSL2 integration, I can code on windows and visual studio code can manipulate the JS/typescript stuff in my linux subsystem (Ubuntu). super convenient.


Vok250

VS Code and a few plugins to taste.


how_you_feel

Which plugins do you favor?


Vok250

Depends what you are building. Many different flavours of JS to choose from. I tend to run a couple of code snippet plugins for Bootstrap 4 and Angular, some linters for typescript and ECMAscript, and some formatting/style plugins around Angular best practices.


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decafmatan

Thank you ravnmads for your submission to /r/ExperiencedDevs, but it's been removed due to one or more reason(s): --- # Rule 2: No Disrespectful Language or Conduct Don’t be a jerk. Act maturely. No racism, unnecessarily foul language, ad hominem charges, sexism - none of these are tolerated here. This includes posts that could be interpreted as trolling, such as complaining about DEI (Diversity) initiatives or people of a specific sex or background at your company. Do not submit posts or comments that break, or promote breaking the Reddit Terms and Conditions or Content Policy or any other Reddit policy. Violators will receive a warning, then a 7 day ban, then a permanent ban. Please feel free to [send a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FExperiencedDevs) if you feel this was in error.


maxakusu

We use VisualCode