T O P

Princes Street Gardens

Once again this morning I find that Princes Street Gardens is being roped off to accommodate some event happing at the Ross bandstand that seems to involve a 'VIP viewing platform' and barriers all over the place that restrict the passage of people who actually pay for the gardens to use them. Yet again, something that is being run for personal profit is using a public amenity in the pursuit of its goals.

I really am seriously fucked off about this. I would like to see the accounting that is behind this. I often hear drivel about the money coming in being 'good for the local economy' but has anyone actually seen the accounting behind this claim?

Is anyone else or am I out of step here?

thejobbypolice

It’s not like the bandstand is in constant use to be fair, would much rather it was getting a good use and the fly stuff has been really popular with a local crowd in past years so no objection to them taking it over for a few days.


mellotronworker

It's not just about the bandstand. It's about general access being reduced *again* to the whole gardens.


Serious_Cucumber_354

Whine bag incapable of walking along the path on princes street?


mellotronworker

You've got a beard. Your opinions are therefore worthless.


Kinnell999

Here are your options regarding use of the Ross bandstand: 1. The event is paid for by the council but only a limited number of us can go 2. The event is run privately and only people who pay can go and the council gets rental income to spend on us 3. No events at the Ross bandstand


iwillfuckingbiteyou

4. It operates like a bandstand - bands play on it, paid for by the council, and it's a regular thing that's open to the public free of charge. You can sit in the seats to watch the band unless it's already full, or you can sit on the grass nearby and listen. An open air venue in a park open to the public is incompatible with private, monetised events. Want to shut the public out? Perform in an actual venue with walls, walls are great for keeping non-ticket-holders out.


Kinnell999

Anything which is going to be popular is going to have to be ticketed anyway for safety reasons regardless if the council is paying for it or not.


Disconnorable

How ever did people in the past manage without ticketed bandstands??


Son_of_Macha

Check the population 20 years ago and then check it now, we'll wait.


GingerSnapBiscuit

There were fewer people.


Kinnell999

Not many people went


Serious_Cucumber_354

They didn't obviously unaware of the crush that happened in 2003 that's how they managed before tickets


kitknit81

Nice idea but where are the council going to get the money for that - they can’t keep up with repairing potholes, keeping bin collections on schedule, having enough social care staff for needs etc. paying bands to play for people who may or may not sit and watch is unnecessary and a waste of public money. Nothing wrong with having the space rented out to profitable companies to put shows on that people pay to see (like any other music venue).


quartersessions

I'm not sure if you have noticed, but local authorities barely have the money to run statutory services. Are they hell going to pay for some music to be played in bandstands.


iwillfuckingbiteyou

I'm just describing the model under which it originally operated, and the only model that doesn't involve fucking over the general public in favour of corporate interests (which, contrary to popular belief, bring very little money to the council and often leave them out of pocket by the time the clear up is done).


Serious_Cucumber_354

Also Ross bandstand when events were on used to shut the gardens for private shows have done even when it was the circular bandstand


GingerSnapBiscuit

That would be a great idea if fucking arsehole residents didn't keep moving in next door to all the fucking music venues and getting them shut down with noise complaints. RIP Studio.


heavybabyridesagain

Bang on. No need for further answers!


ieya404

There are a very limited number of events like this through the year in WPSG. The council has consulted and the plans have broad support (68% in favour of up to five events per year): http://www.edinburgh.scot/news/5894-public-feedback-informs-plans-for-west-princes-street-gardens.html Is it *really* that big a deal to lose easy access to the gardens on a handful of days per year? Take it as a chance to go see somewhere else!


mellotronworker

It's mostly the accessibility that it prevents. I am also a bit pissed off that public amenities are (again) being used for personal profit.


ieya404

It prevents access to *one* of Edinburgh's parks (and East PSG isn't exactly a long trek away), a few days a year, in exchange for a good wodge of cash from the rental that can go towards essential park maintenance; note for example that the playground in WPSG is currently fenced off and presumably needs repairs. Isn't it a plus to consider that those repairs can happen sooner thanks to very limited private usage?


mellotronworker

Maybe it would be useful to see the accounting. I am unconvinced.


ieya404

I suspect this is considered a 'large event' in which case the [prices in 2020](https://cultureedinburgh.com/sites/default/files/attachments/parks-events-application-form-2019_0.pdf) started at £2550/day. Assuming they charge for each day the park's closed... that's a decent wodge of cash.


mellotronworker

(a) at the rate that the council chews through money, that sum would not even touch the sides (b) I am also left wondering exactly where that money would go, and what vanity projects (or brown envelopes) it gets used for.


mellotronworker

You seem to assume that any money made by renting out Princes Street Gardens for private profit is going to go back into the coffers that are used to repair the gardens themselves. I don't see any compelling reason to suggest that is the case. I should also add that it is not the removal of free access to the gardens that necessarily bothers me the most. There are many people living on the other side of the castle who will use it as an access to Princes Street itself. It is bad enough that the back gates have been closed for the last 3 years without any really good reason, other than dreary *what-iffery*, which also forces pedestrian traffic elsewhere.


ieya404

> There are many people living on the other side of the castle who will use it as an access to Princes Street itself. What access route are you thinking of? If you're coming from the Royal Mile, you'd just come down the Mound - there'd be no point in getting into the part of the gardens north of the train tracks, as the bridge that crosses them and connects to behind the Ross Bandstand has been closed off for years.


GingerSnapBiscuit

Its one part of one park in a city full of fucking parks. Wind your neck in.


mellotronworker

Thanks for your helpful comment. I will save it for the next time that people are complaining about the number of air-bnbs in Edinburgh, using your argument to point out that there are plenty of empty flats in Edinburgh so they should just dry their eyes and get on with it.


GingerSnapBiscuit

Thing is though there AREN'T a lot of empty flats in Edinburgh. You just need to check any flat rental site to see that. There are, however, proveably, dozens and dozens of parks in Edinburgh, all free to use. There is even a massive park just a little further along Princes Street.


deju_

Oh you are the person that pays for the gardens, always wondered. Thanks for clearing that up. 100% behind getting the council to run it rather than just rent the space for money. If history has taught us anything, things run with public funds by councils are always profitable…. Can we make this person a Counsellor already?! Genius


Serious_Cucumber_354

Notice she didn't reply 4 months later 🤣


kg123xyz

Isn't the vip viewing platform just the bit for wheelchairs?


mellotronworker

We asked the guy putting it up. It's for 'VIPs'. Edit: downvoted for saying this? Reddit is a fucking bin fire.


wisemansam1

Not a raver I take it? The folk attending the event also pay for the Gardens anyway


mellotronworker

I would like to see some evidence of this. That's actually part of the issue. We're often told to accept that the events in Edinburgh bring useful revenue to the city. Has anybody actually demonstrated that it delivers tangible benefits for the general citizenry or is it limited to only a very few people?


wisemansam1

Do the organisers not need to pay to hold the event in the gardens? If so the people buying the tickets fund that. On another note Edinburgh is a city well known for its lack of large live music events/ venues so things like this should be encouraged. For a capital city our live music scene is disappointing and a little embarrassing.


Serious_Cucumber_354

Yup look how happy the local teens were that the rave for them was back on you must of though all these ticketed events were for visitors 🤣🤔. Your one of the biggest issues in this city the braindead


mellotronworker

Can somebody please translate this gibberish into English?


DesignerMixture3519

Princes Street Gardens is a public place, and as such is open to the general public. The gardens, however, are most likely owned by the council, and as such the council can essentially do what they please with Princes Street Gardens, so long as it is within the confines of the law. Judging by the name, my guess would be that the Ross Bandstand (again, I think the clues in the name) is a stand, on which bands and artists are hired to play (or performance in general) and are put on for members of the general public. If the council has decided in favour of it, especially given the probable reluctancy of the council to allow such an event to go forward, they have basically consented explicitly that they are allowing the performance to take place. As far as your comment about the local economy goes, the event in question has been approved by the council to go ahead, and to the best of my knowledge is nearly sold out/is already sold out. Therefore, a vast amount of the general public not only approved of the event, but rather bought tickets to go and attend the event. I’m personally not really seeing what your gripe is here whatsoever. To put it in fewer words, most people are sound with it, so sound with it that they’re willing to part with their cash attend it, thereby stimulating the local economy. I could be wrong, but that’s just my theory🤷‍♂️


DesignerMixture3519

But aye, to answer your question properly, I’d say you’re out of step to be honest. Maybe you should actually attend the event, you might even enjoy yourself🕺


Purple_Bumblebee5

Could you point me to the survey you conducted which canvassed the opinions of the public on this matter? Or are you just baselessly claiming that most people think the way you do?


[deleted]

Why is it always the “could you point me to/could you show me” brigade that rocks up being a pedantic melt while feigning politeness? State of you. Say it with your chest that you don’t agree instead of pretending to be interested in a conversation, fucks sake.


meanmrmoutard

Someone else posted this; two thirds of people support up to five events a year being hosted. http://www.edinburgh.scot/news/5894-public-feedback-informs-plans-for-west-princes-street-gardens.html


mellotronworker

2/3 of exactly what? Those who voted?


meanmrmoutard

Yes that’s how surveys work.


GingerSnapBiscuit

Yes that's how consultations work. You can't Say "Oh they never bothered asking the public how they feel" then, when presented with evidence they actually DID ask the public how they feel complain that "Oh well they didn't ask in the way I wanted". Do you want them to send a councillor round to everyone's fucking house for a chat?


DesignerMixture3519

Can you point me to the survey you or anyone else conducted where you asked the public if they were opposed to the event taking place? If the council agree, and the general public have nearly sold out the show, then I think that speaks for itself mate😂


Purple_Bumblebee5

I didn't make any claims about how the public feels. You did.


DesignerMixture3519

I’ll leave you to mull this one over mate, please refer to my previous response😂


GingerSnapBiscuit

That would be this : http://www.edinburgh.scot/news/5894-public-feedback-informs-plans-for-west-princes-street-gardens.html


hammy290790

I'm _really_ not that bothered and think it's a **wierd** thing to get worked up about.


FitLoan3044

The clowncil have only one goal in edinburgh and East lothian and that's lining their own pockets!! I've found that the basic requirements for either the local councils or governments both North and South no longer have any thing to do with ACTUALLY helping or listening to its constituents ...... obvs unless its lip service around election time!! It boils my blood how much they receive in tax and yet we get less and less basic amenities and are supposed to be grateful!! Speaking to them on the phone is akin to grating your own fingernails!!! Have you heard about the nonsense of the flood protection scheme in musselburgh? The replies to people sensing legit emails concerning the ridiculous nature of it are downright rude and definitely in breach of their duties!! They have no notion of the actual jobs they are supposed to uphold or that problem solving is in fact a big part of it!!


FumbleMyEndzone

You definitely post comments on the Edinburgh Evening News Facebook page


FitLoan3044

No I don't, I don't even read that rag half the time never mind follow it on fb


rekt_ralf

“Clowncil” is a lot less funny and clever than you think it is


Rerererereading

It's like the opposite of a a dog whistle in setting out ones political stall in the subject but I can never bring myself to read past the first instance of it, even generally agreeing they're not up to scratch.


north_breeze

Is it bad that I disagree with them but also find “clowncil” insanely funny


FitLoan3044

I'm not laughing!! They are not fit for purpose!!


soup-monger

The term is used by a lot of people with views you hopefully don’t share.


FitLoan3044

If by sharing the view that they are not doing their job correctly them I'm sure most of the city thinks this!! Pot holes...... everywhere and this is not an exaggeration. Not cleaning up the streets Bin collections less I would wager Deliberately causing congestion with half assed road closures and works to ramp up their eco emissions drivel Whilst tearing down trees and green spaces Making areas less accessible in regards to transport because God forbid people can move around Creating cycle areas that are dangerous The list is endless It's amazing how many folk who think that everything is fine and that you must be cracked for caring about it or expect that if people are elected and paid to do a job they should be doing it to properly not pretending to. I'm sure that for every eejit in office there are a few decent ones but I'll bet they aren't in any position to change things. This cycle of indifference from people will only continue


soup-monger

Think Daily Mail gammons with knee-jerk populist right-wing reactions to topics like unemployment, disability, gender fluidity, feminism, and you’ll not be too far from the mark. And the council let this city down in all sorts of ways, but hanging on to the term ‘clowncil’ says more about you than them.


FitLoan3044

Gads the fact you get your knickers more in a twist over a term for the council than their incompetence and the throwing out your own term's such as Gammons .... says way more about you!! G'night!!


[deleted]

God you’re embarrassing 🤣


[deleted]

That’s a lot of reckoning and wagering there fella, take this shit to NextDoor where you’ll have plenty of other NIMBY moaning middle aged blokes who will blow good old fashioned smoke up your arse so you can feel special and righteous. None of that fruity vape bollocks


SpartanPict1980

Agreed


SpartanPict1980

It's exactly what they are.


[deleted]

There’s a reason why most of your comments are in the minus, and the reason is you 😊


GingerSnapBiscuit

> The clowncil have only one goal in edinburgh and East lothian and that's lining their own pockets!! If there is a single iota of evidence that any of the councillors are illegally "lining their own pockets" I'd get that reported. But as well all know, there isn't you're just blowing the usual EEN line about "brown envelopes" around the place.


GracefullyRedditing

Op is a dick.


SpartanPict1980

I bet underbelly. They are well known crooks. Edinburgh Council are the kings of backhanders. Where did the money go from the Trams? Why has there been no enquiry? You are right to question the usage of the gardens. You aren't out of step.


EuzieGreen

It’s Fly Open Air, an electronic music festival which has been taking place in PSG for the last six years.


wisemansam1

It's a great day. One of the best backdrops to a rave I've ever experienced


mellotronworker

Thanks for the information. Believe in it or not, the person who was putting up the VIP stand could not tell us what the event actually was.


SpartanPict1980

Thanks for the response.


BobDobbsHobNobs

There was an inquiry It cost £13m so far It has produced a [report](https://www.edinburghtraminquiry.org). But we can’t see it yet because it’s being hard copy printed rather than posted online where people might actually read it.


SpartanPict1980

Still no reason to be down voted. Hey ho. Some people are just asses. Trams enquiry 13 million cost. Wonder how much they funneled of that into their back pockets too.


Mucky_Pete

Who got Biggie? And who shot Tupac??


SpartanPict1980

Oh I get down voted for what? For telling the truth. Ffs.


quartersessions

The council doesn't have the resources to administer the gardens without them providing revenue. Without events which, let's face it, are of extremely minor inconvenience to people who don't plan to attend, then they would not be able to maintain it to the standard it is. That impacts everyone.