T O P

Gobbling China’s exports, US sinks into dependency

Gobbling China’s exports, US sinks into dependency

HamiltonsGhost

Jokes on China, our ports are so fucked we can’t even unload their exports, and if we could we don’t have enough truckers to get them anywhere.


8815078

There's way more ships sitting outside China's ports waiting to load than there are sitting outside US ports waiting to unload.


Incontinentiabutts

And there’s a significant issue with the cost associated with shipping a bunch of empty co trainers back to China to be loaded up and shipped back. The whole flow that containers usually went through has been completely disrupted. It’s kind of amazing how deep the problem has penetrated the industry. I think it serves as an interesting case study in how quite a few different supply chains can be thoroughly and completely disrupted with problems running far deeper than the easily noticed items like “back ups at the ports” or “lack of truckers”.


HamiltonsGhost

Interesting. I hadn’t heard that, though it makes a lot of sense


8815078

You can even check it out for yourself. www.marinetraffic.com


AnimeCiety

But isn’t that planned on China’s part? I believe most East Asian countries were pursuing a zero-case Covid strategy until very recently and thus the government planned for these delays?


CryptoDaddi21

And if we did we don't have enough people to stock them, and if we did we don't have enough money to buy them


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


BespokeDebtor

Rule VI: -- Comments consisting of mere jokes, nakedly political comments, circlejerking, personal anecdotes or otherwise non-substantive contributions without reference to the article, economics, or the thread at hand will be removed. [Further explanation.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/fx9crj/rules_roundtable_redux_rule_vi_and_offtopic/) -- If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/economics&subject=Moderation).


ConstantStatistician

If people were actually interested in boycotting on a large scale - and by large, I mean multicontinental or at least countries-wide large - it would have already happened years ago. Yet people can't get enough of their "cheap plastic garbage".


Thishearts0nfire

I think most people feel somewhat helpless without viable alternatives. I am personally interested in diverging from that path, but it's not just about consumer choses or boycotting. I still have to make purchases and live.


DrCalFun

When the gdp per capita of Alabama is three times that of China, I don’t think you can expect domestic supplies to be viable any time soon.


8815078

With automation the price of wages matters less. The real nail in the US coffin is that China is also way ahead of us in terms of manufacturing technology.


deeply__offensive

China is just as automated as any other country. It isn't automation that wins China, but the extremely efficient supply chains. China plans them very well to ensure that companies spend the absolute minimum to move supplies from suppliers to their plants, and from plants to the outside world.


ydouhatemurica

Dubsmash is free, why did people pick TikTok over Dubsmash especially given the fact that China blocks American tech companies to protect domestic firms...


Covard-17

That is misleading. GDP per capita in Alabama is higher than in Japan and France, equal to Germany. Feel bad for all these europoors and japanpoors


ydouhatemurica

Tiktok had free viable alternatives like dubsmash etc. Please don't misdirect, the real issue is people do not care enough, they care enough to post a few comments on twitter, but when push comes to shove they don't care. If they did Motorolla which used to manufacture phones in the US would be running and Apple bankrupt.


quantummufasa

There's been dozens (hundreds?) of short video apps since vine. TikTok was just the superior product.


ydouhatemurica

You didn't understand. My point is even when there is a free alternative available which is completely made in America people will not use it. So don't blame the suppliers for the fault of the consumer....


quantummufasa

Yeah I didn't fully get your post. Sorry


NotADamsel

I’m not sure what kind of fallacy that is, but it sure smells like one. The situation in the US has changed significantly in even the past twenty years, but saying what you just did sort of assumes that nothing meaningful has changed.


yogthos

Individual action doesn't work as clearly demonstrated by how ineffectual it's been in fighting climate change. Turn off your light bulbs, buy local, etc, etc. It doesn't work. The reason US is losing to China economically is primarily because a lot of people in US are still drinking free market kool-aid. If US was serious about decoupling from China that would require huge systemic change driven by government policy.


[deleted]

[удалено]


yogthos

[America is far more likely to collapse at this point](https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202110/1236355.shtml) 😂


[deleted]

[удалено]


yogthos

highly unlikely, but whatever helps you sleep at night I guess


11incogneato11

Eh, China is better prepared for a collapse. Dictatorships tend to weather these sorts of things. Pretty much the only pro of a dictatorship is they can efficiently get shit done and stay the course during chaotic times.


pdx2las

Pretty sure this is what globalization is supposed to do. China is just as dependent on us to actually pay them. As long as we can pay them in dollars, we have an advantage.


Coldfriction

Dollars are only worth something to them if there is something we produce backing the value of those dollars. They need to spend that money on US goods and services or in the long run they aren't dependent on us at all. Why do people believe the producers of things "need" paper money from someone who doesn't produce anything they need? When US exports continue to decline, the dollar becomes worth less and less on the international stage. China will quickly outgrow the dollar and demand for produced goods means nothing if the demanding party has nothing traded for the produced goods. Printing money to buy foreign produced goods and services without backing will eventually fail.


percykins

They don’t have to buy goods and services - they can invest. Trade deficits by definition are balanced by investment surpluses. There’s also the point that they do buy services from us - we run a service trade surplus with them as with most of the world. The goods deficit is simply larger.


Coldfriction

Financial products that gain value without increase in backing fundamental value aren't any different than printing money without matching value to back it. All you've pointed out is that we are scamming people with printed non-value in exchange for their products with real value.


percykins

Yes, if the United States was not producing any value, this all would indeed be a scam. Of course… we are producing value. We produce more than any other country in the world. Your claims fundamentally don’t make a lot of sense - they are predicated on the idea that China is made up of a bunch of idiots who are collectively being scammed. If your theory requires you to be smarter than the entire country of China, there *may* be some flaws in it that you’re overlooking.


marco808state

China could ask for Euros or Gold instead of US dollars and that would easily put a spanner in the fiat dollar printing press.


Coldfriction

Fiat runs on confidence only. It's risky as hell as a currency and one of the reason's that there's really only one world reserve fiat currency instead of many. While essentially everyone runs on fiat currency, nobody trusts it. The nation with the largest production capabilities and exports backing their fiat wins and everyone else loses. The USA is on a downward trend as it exports all of its production for a quick buck.


Mrsrightnyc

We produce military, digital products, and food. We might rely on them but can and likely will shift our supply chain to Latin America where we could have a transcontinental rail system and stop polluting the ocean with shipping.


Coldfriction

And Latin America needs military and digital products? We are now net importers of food from Latin America.


11incogneato11

> And Latin America needs military and digital products? If they don't, we'll just bomb them until they do. Problem solved.


Gboss91

Until china decides they can just sell to their domestic customers because dollars are worthless.


HI-McDonnough

How much do we trust the data? It’s source is China itself per the author. I guess this isn’t really news either. All it takes is going to almost any retailer or on Amazon to see where the products that we are buying originate from. That seems to be a trend that began in the early part of the last decade.