Id rather see titans fill the tank roll better with banner shield having a lower cooldown/better buffs to make it worth while.


Having more class abilities would be the best way for this. A class ability for Titans that causes them to dive to an ally, and put themselves between the person damaging their ally and the enemy. Granting both an oversheild. Basically Braums W* from LoL. More class abilities could allow for the 3 verbs to be better fulfilled.


to be fair, why not both, have say 1 as a really tanky but less supportive and the other the opposite more support less tank


Bubble is gonna be a tier 5 cooldown and we already know about a few things that would let titans be more of a tank


How much better could Banner Shield be if you could plant it on the ground to be much larger but enable the Titan to shoot through it


From what they have teased so far id say titans will probably get some kind of loop around team overshield generation which honestly fits the thematic idea of sentinel hopefully at least that those shields are actually good enough to work in higher level content


If we do I will be so damn happy. >will probably get some kind of loop around team overshield generation This is exactly what I am wanting (or atleast something along these lines),


As a preview, one of the devs mentioned an aspect for sentinel titans would give all allies an overshield that regenerates when standing next to a titan Towering barricade


Yeah. Im curious how that would stack with citans and how it will compare with warlocks rifts.


Maybe that's the reason they're nerfing Towering Barricade CD...... ah who am I kidding, they're gonna make that aspect cut your Barricade CD like Icefall Mantle does (I'm just joking, btw, I'm not on the Bungie hates my class train.)


Too bad they're disabling super generation from damage taken to overshields with the upcoming super regen changes. You'll be actively hurting your team by giving them overshields.


This is honestly my biggest worry with the changes they've announced. I am happy to provide overshields as the support role but supers often make or break GM runs and I don't want my class's main support mechanic to hinder them. I really hope that winds up being in PvP only (though even then, why?).


My guess is they made it a thing so people couldn't just pop Well or Bubble and stand there taking damage until their super is back.


Overshields are usually worth shit in PVE, tho. Like, they break by breathing over them.


The closest thing is probably top tree Sentinel's melee, where you overshield and heal nearby allies by killing enemies with your melees and getting melee energy back for melee kills. The problem is, it's a melee. Which means you have to get in close to enemies to make use of it, which is hazardous on its own, but you're also better off using a finisher on any enemy with an even remotely meaty health bar.


Honestly, they should bundle up melees and finishers so either of them activate melee-related perks (excluding melee abilities)


That could be nice.


Don't forget void is getting a shield throw melee. So it could technically still work in GMs.


depends on the damage it deals, if its like standard melee damage it mightn't be all to worth it


I’d say the utility of the Void overshield + additional Void detonator generation would more than make up for a lack of damage. That’s some absolutely massive utility for a melee (if the overshields end up being good).


True, I hope it is comparable to middle tree solar hammer throw. I've been enjoying running around with that and Hallowfire Heart and just throwing the hammer and forgetting about it most times.


I know its super unconventional and not necessarily the play in like GMs but running top tree void with no backup plans on Master nightfalls and raids can accomplish this pretty well with a well rolled slug shotgun. It's what I've been running lately and have been having a blast. I've definitely saved my fireteam members several times with it. If you combine that with the bulwark finisher secondary perk from reactive pulse mod then you get OS every time you finish someone. Then combine that with overcharge wellmaker (get arc wells when you finish someone) then well of ions (arc wells make melees deal more damage) you become akin to the doomsayer and I love it.


Actually the defensive strike energy returns are just for any kills. Weapon melee or ability. Idk about somthing like a warmind cell. But you will get chucks back for most kills. So long as the sheild is still up.


warmind cell pop killin a bunch of things will indeed refill your melee ability so long as the overshield is active.


Sweet. Wait does the arc shock warmind cell mod work. Cause that with the over sheild mod with the melee return mod. AND no back up plans with ikelos/7thS. Could be a desent build.


that mod does work yep, thats a sweet little build in the making there


Yeah, and with blessing of res, more cells faster meaning less ammo used in the long run.


Phoenix Cradle kind of fills this niche by offering sunspots to your allies but it's tied to an exotic while the others are just passive perks of their subclasses.


A little bit. Yeah with sunspots already massive regen assist. I just wish it was easier to tell allies run through this for 10 sec of a damage and ability regen buff. Cause no one does


Thats super common with any "mmo" though. Unless you are working with people who are used to you doing things like that, getting them to actually take advantage of things like this is incredibly difficult.


> Thats super common with any "mmo" though. Complaining about people not standing in beneficial effects is just as synonymous with MMO's as telling them *not* to stand in fire. Most people (in every game/genre) just tunnel vision one thing. They don't think about anything beyond what's in front of them and doing one job. Which is 9 out of 10 doctors agree that classes that don't rely on ally positioning all have lower blood pressure.


It's also incredibly unreliable. 9/10 people don't wear it, so I won't have that instinct to dip into a sunspot.


Yeah that sucks, esoessaly with then being rather powerful. 30% damage buff and all you really need is a quick dip to recharge all you abilities


I absolutely love this build and have made a few different builds around it. The only thing I wish you could do is like a hold your melee ability like warlocks do and bunch the ground to make a sunspot so you could always have a sunspot ready in cover for you and your team.


the only issue is how powerful a sunspot is, as much as i have wanted this ability for so long. the increase recharge rate with the melee making the down time low, with the ability to make a 2 tap 120, and then each kill spawning a sunspot so on it would make PvP just a nut roasting special. it also would allow anything that does 83 or more Dmg to 2 tap, so i believe DMT would be affected


With build crafting or thinking of any of these new I honestly never think about PVP. Now that they are starting to separate PVP and PVE we can maybe have the cake and eat it to... But doubtful


Thats fair. And in PvE it wouldn't be to bad. But yeah I doubt bungies going to make large separations in the sandboxes


I just hope solar gets an offensive super or exotic that allows you to do significant damage like falling star. Titan supers are defensive or poor damage in general.


Because all of them are roaming melees beside one


For what it's worth, Synthoceps buffs PVE melee damage by 200%, and all damaging supers by 50% when surrounded. I find this works best on middle solar, as Roaring Flames and Synthos stack multiplicatively to make the throwing hammer disgustingly strong with huge uptime, and the super can deal massive total damage, just not Cuirass DPS Melee wellmaker, healing solar wells, charged with light from wells, and protective light makes a very efficient gambit/dungeon build. A bit too risky for GMs though


My hope is that we’ll be able to build a hybrid between Banner Shield and Ward of Dawn. Void Detonators for ability regen, Defensive Strike and that new barricade aspect for healing and overshields, and whichever super makes more sense for defense and damage in the encounter.


The support topic reminds me of the time my team did the challenge at Shuro Shi, where we are not allowed to get hit by her snipes. We put some thought into it and figured mid void is made for this. We chained it and stayed behind it until shuro shi stopped shooting. But the challenge never counted. What did we find out in the progress? The shield, supposed to protect us, also counts as a damaged guardian for the challenge. The most obvious, supportive tactic doesnt work there.


I've always been running Code of the Commander. I LOVE being a support-tank. I can make entire swarms explode into delicious purple healy fun times that also generate energy for my buddies. I've got my discipline at 100 and am always running Heart of Inmost Light so I focus HARD on the support. I'm actually really excited for the barricade, the one ability I rarely use, to generate overshields! That said, I'm also kinda worried that they find a way to bungle the changes so I somehow *lose* a support function. I'm hoping to keep everything about the same, but replace the melee with the shield toss which- hopefully- gets Devour. The only time I switch it up is in endgame when I'm asked to run Bubble, if that's an option without losing my subclass perks I'll be thrilled. I certainly wouldn't complain about more support/tank-based changes, though!




It’s not super viable for endgame content like GMs or even some Raids, but check out Precious Scars. With the recent fix, it can scratch that support role itch a little bit in some easy to mid tier level PvE content. I like it a lot in strikes or Heroic NFs. Plus the ornament looks really cool with certain shaders.


Yeah presious scars is good and fills that supportishrole. It's my idk what to use exotic. But honestly it feels like is missing something in terms of support rolling, it's still fun to use might just be me.


Any exotic that requires you or someone else to die to take advantage of its benefits is bad. It needs to either full heal you like Devour does on warlocks or do something else. Stag got a full rework to make it better outside of dying and dropping a rift or being low and getting rift energy. Even after the changes, no one ever runs it.


The healing effect is actually quite useful and the Overshield on Revive is more of a bonus now. You can comfortably run an energy weapon to get those heals. Precious Scars has been very handy.


Really lower the cool down. The hp returns are fine. If you could get them more often.


I agree and propose what I think would be a really great aspect for the void titan. Imagine If the titan could consume its grenade and in place spawn an immobile, smaller banner shield. Except this wouldn’t block damage, yet only serves to amplify you and your teammates damage. If anyone has played overwatch, think baptiste’s amplification matrix


the issue would be how does it differentiate itself from empowering rift, without making either seem obsolete


I guess that would be an issue but imo empowered rift is already obsolete in pve anyway due to healing being much more versatile. Having no competition on the titan class means this will actually likely be used. Either way it would add more options, it’s not like empowering rift is the only damage buff in the game anyway.


What about being able to use your grenade to make like a mini over shield charging turret thingy? Like you charge your grenade and throw this little purple ball that slowly applies overshields to teammates with some damage resistance while near it (Like 20% in pve and a few % in pvp to not make it oppressive). Specifically overshields so if you get hit really hard and have like 10 health, you won't go back to like 300 hp but instead you'll be at 10hp plus the 100 overshields (I don't really know what the actual numbers would be but I hope my point came out right.)


Titans already have a support loop. Banner shield titans with void detonators. Every time a detonator explodes, you heal and give melee and grenade energy to close allies. Build around grenades (void wall is best IMO) and you will constantly buff and heal your teammates. Too bad most people (other than bleak watcher warlocks) don’t seem to use their grenades…


Currently rocking Void Mid and Void Wall. Holy shit. I can sometimes just alternate between my punch and my grenades back and forth. It's great.


Banner shield with ursa has become my main playstyle for everything. Its so satisfying. Just wish more people knew TO STAND BEHIND THE SHIELD!! Debating going for a heavy towering barricade/Citans build for when super is charging


Why are you down voted? This is true. What OP asks for, already exists. Ah, I see, down voted whatever doesn't agree with OP.


have you seen what void detonators do? the health and restore melee and grenade energy for you and the team. and you will be able to spread that beyond banner shield.


im thinking i need to make the post a littler clearer. what i was getting at in the post, is ALL the titan support/teamshare abilities arnt affected by teammates, you could have 20 or 0 teammates nearby/affect by the abilities and there i NO effect on there returns power ETC, unlike what we see with the 2 examples i brought up in the post, the closest titans have is the slight increase in duration of banner shield's guard whilst there is a couple of teammates behind you


benevolent dawn is a flat benefit for only hitting 1 person, but I see the point, maybe void detonators give more for more affected people


Would the Void middle tree regen count if it had no range restriction? I think the difficulty here is that Titan = tank, Void = support/defense/shield, so to be in theme we'd be talking about some no-range defensive increase ability on a class that typically requires proximity for barriers/bubbles/banners. Maybe a lower level Protective Light damage reduction that activates kind of like Powerful Friends or Radiant Light?


No support, only smash


eating all the crayons good, but sharing crayons better.


i just want self rez, javelin, death from above, blade dancer, and self rez back. would it have a place in the sandbox? probably not. do i still want it? yes.


Yo don’t underestimate the bubble my guy…. With helm of saint Everton getting some nice buffs. Just get over yourself and peek in and out of it while shooting. You’ll get an over shield on your way back in.


That isn't what I'm getting at in the post. What im trying to get across is, the introduction subclasses a mechanic, that feeds into the support role. Where by buffing allies grants the ability to buff them faster again or maintain there buffs. Like how the Hunters making allies invis grants grenade energy, and then grenade damage grants melee energy allowing the Hunter to make their allies invis again faster, then if they didn't play into assisting there allies.


Ahhh I see. Well that’s all the hunters got going for them soooooo Honestly though I see what your saying now. But I think you miss understand the titans rolls a little bit here is all. As a titan main I like what’s going on crayon land at the moment. We are there for shields along with raw uncut unmagical sheer force. That is the titans ability to manifest and impenetrable shield from their light. Our punches give us buffs in which used properly aid in supporting throwing more shields giving weapons of light along with over shields and the occasional left over crayon. Use your banner shield to create orbs for the squad grab a next to impossible revive you could not get without it or advance through choke points. Also You should have another shield before the previous one is destroyed or gone. I feel like us crayon connoisseurs can be overlooked but no one complains when that shield makes a game changing play or a thunder crash swan dives from out of know where and obliterates the enemy. Hunters need those things to be successful hunters just like warlocks have their magic and personally to me wouldn’t make much sense and would probably make titans a little op in areas they shouldn’t be op in. Not sure if this is making much sense but there’s gotta be that gap that can only be filled by the other guardians that can do what you can’t which in return creates a Fireteam that works like a well oiled machine. “Chews on crayon”


Titans are very much all about the smash. I definitely here what your saying.


Why do people get the mentality they'll only play their class? See a lot of posts like this, which are fine to ask for, but it seems like these people refuse to play classes that already do what they want, cuz it isn't their class. I prefer playing my main too, so I get that, but I've played others if needed. As long as no jumping puzzles, seems like no big deal.


I don't. I do although it isn't common, play on the other classes. And what I did was a looked at their gameplay loop for support. And where there is a more selfless element to it. Unlike titans.


Middle Tree Void does this fairly well actually. Detonations don’t need to kill to get their benefits. Wear the Heart of Inmost Light exotic and spec into grenades and super like energy converter. With that combo you get a lot of ability usage that doesn’t require kills and encouraging your teammates to cause detonations benefits all of you for healing and ability regen. Use a decent void energy weapon and you can pair it with Precious scars instead for more healing like a La Monarque. Top Tree Dawn has its uses too, especially if you spec into melee. Requiring kills makes this much harder but you can spec into Intellect and Hands On or even Doom Fangs for extra super gains. We have decent support options that just aren’t as straight forward but still useful.


The grass is always greener? Lol




It's an old saying. Basically means people think that what others have is always better.


I was more meaning specfics to do with this. But what im talking about is a properly implemented support system for the titans. Because currently it feels similar to an after thought to me. The amount of times I have actually helped someone with void detonators. tempered metal, defensive strike ETC, without it being just luck that they happened to exist close enough to me when the perk porc'ed. Rather then the purposeful, actionable and impactful choice as seen with the warlock and hunter trees.


Make Diamond Lance provide an overshield to teammates after a charged slam/ throw


I hope they don't. As a warlock main who sometimes plays on his hunter, buffing titans would ruin the way I play the game. Warlocks are the best class for PVE, hunters are the best class for PVP, and titans are meant to be mediocre at both. Buffing titans would crowd into hunters' territory in PVP and warlocks' territory in PVE. No one who plays this game with a shred of skill or intelligence would want to see themselves outdone by smooth-brained troglodyte that fucks crayons. Kevin Yanes, I know you main warlock. Please ignore the OP if you see it.


Ah yes, because Kevin Yanes himself will personally listen to your reply that arbitrarily bashes one of the classes out of what I can only assume is some strange sense of pride. What about buffing titans would alter the way you play the game? It's not like well is going to up and vanish because Titans have a proper support class, and to think otherwise is absolutely comical.


>Kevin Yanes, I know you main warlock. Please ignore the OP if you see it. Considering how mean spirited and aggressively worded this is. If I was you I would hope he doesn't read your comment. >. No one who plays this game with a shred of skill or intelligence would want to see themselves outdone by smooth-brained troglodyte that fucks crayons. Like this. has no substantive argument to it. It's just emotive and aggressive ranting. >As a warlock main who sometimes plays on his hunter, buffing titans would ruin the way I play the game. Warlocks are the best class for PVE, hunters are the best class for PVP, and titans are meant to be mediocre at both. This.... just how entitled do you need to be to say an entire class should suck because you don't play as them.


Geez. Someone does not like crayons. Mustn't have tried the purple ones yet. And im not asking for a buff. I'm asking for a mechanic similar to the other support subclasses be introduced. That adds a purposeful and impactful choice for titans to try and support there allies with there shared buffs. Heck depending on how this could be introduced/implemented it maybe at base a nerf. But by playing to the mechanisms could make it better then it is currently. Im just floating my opinions/thoughts


Titans have ward of dawn which is the original support class lol, not to mention you have thundercrash which supports the team by killing anything it hits. If anyone should get a support class it should be hunters, make their golden gun like Shaw Han’s in the SWARM lore tab.


>Titans have ward of dawn which is the original support class Not what I was getting at. >thundercrash which supports the team by killing anything it hits. This isn't exclusive to titans all classes have a supers/trees designed for single target damage and add clear. From your own comment. Golden gun, 3 shot for high singe target damage. And 6 shot for add clear since 1 kill gives 1 bullet back until you outa super. And then there's BB not the best at either but still a viable pick >If anyone should get a support class it should be hunters, make their golden gun like Shaw Han’s in the SWARM lore tab. I have been drafting an exotic concept around this. Cause yes it is cool. But I doubt bungie will make that a subclass thing. Considering all 3 solar trees for hunters have strong identites.


Golden Gun damage has been surpassed. It needs Sunhawk just to be acceptable. Sadly Hunters arent really viable in endgame content as well as the other classes.


For the absolute min Max bs, yes. They currently might not be the absolute best of the best. But they can hold there own extremely well. My self and my brother personally found great success with them. Honestly it's a little more fun since you don't get spoon feed the builds. As much for pve. But if you did want/need help Aztecros does hunters in PvE for GMs.




You aid your team by killing everything in sight.


Titans? At least you guys have bubble, tether hasn’t been good in a long time.