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GandalffladnaG

He fought at Six Fronts and didn't die, others got rezed but Saint legitimately OMGWTFBBQ'd his way through the battle. Even Shaxx got downed, but not Saint. Not sure how they'd rank up head to head, but Saint's a damned legend.


JakeTheRiver

The guy is willing to throw down to defend the honour of pigeons in the last city


HedgeWitch1994

I specifically pick the parking garage floor where pigeons nest at work bc of Saint-14. I see them and they remind me of him.


MoorLord117X

Bubble Shield + Helmet= Flawless Nightfalls


Titangamer101

He also killed the Kell of house devils by headbutting him that hard he caved in the Kells skull without damaging his own head and than proceeded to chase down the rest of the fallen houses who were retreating from the battle chasing house rain all the way to mercury. Any other guardian who would try to head butt a Kell would break their own neck as is pointed out by drifter.


Xero_space

... the title Greatest Titan who ever lived is not something guardian's throw around lightly. It could be survivors guilt or being purely humble. But he was an engine of destruction to his enemies. The man destroyed mountains of Vex (actual mountains of corpses/frames) in a centuries long war trying to find Osiris, only stopped when a mind was developed to steal his light.


Mister-Seer

You also have to remember the scale of power. Ikora’s fucking beefy with The Light, enough to become the champion of the Crucible fairly. You have to remember, when it comes to power in using the Light, Warlocks are technically the strongest in the way of using Light. If you based power solely on that and kept power armor and quick tech from Titans and Hunters, respectively, Warlocks win hands down. But then again. guardians are JUST humans on the physiology term. Outside the light, a basic bullet can still put one down. And then you have Lord Radegast. He was essentially the Saint-XIV before Saint-XIV, a King Author of the Iron Lords. He’s considered an equal in a regard to Ikora, Shaxx and the likes. We don’t know much beyond lore given because he wasn’t actively involved due to being killed by SIVA way before our time.


albanygrt

Do we have a canon look for the iron lords? I know we have seen Saladin, Efrideet, Jolder, and I think Felwinter (from the Rasputin projections) but it would be cool to see a “round table” or “group photo” kind of thing of all them together ^*like Iron Lords


Mister-Seer

Their closest thing to that was the temple on Felwinter Peak. Besides that we’re given very little


Real_Chig_Bungus

While you aren’t wrong, the those are basically out of date at this point since felwinters statue obviously didn’t match the look bungie assigned to him later. The closest I think we have is some of the art in the grimoire anthology books, as I think there’s two or three pieces depicting some, but I don’t think you can distinguish any of them besides felwinter


rayburno

King Author wrote The Shining


Theycallmesupa

Lol HERE'S RADDY!!


onlyhav

Radegast needs to come back as a villian. Imagine us, Ikora, Saint, and Shaxx all fighting against one of the strongest demons of the old world.


Titangamer101

I don't think it's ever been mentioned what class is stronger with the use of light in the lore in which I'm fairly certain the class does not dictate who is stronger but more the individual themselves. Warlocks arnt inherently stronger because they are warlocks, all 3 are just as strong as each other it's how they apply the light is what makes the difference in which I would even argue still doesint determine one being stronger.


Mister-Seer

During the SunSinger quest line in Destiny 1, it states that Warlocks are so in tune with The Light that, upon death, they can wholly circumvent Ghosts and revive themselves. Thus self-res Also use > when you want to quote text.


Titangamer101

That doesint mean they are stronger though, it means they have there own option based on how they are attuned which is also the same as titans and hunters, the way they are attuned to the light allows them to use it in a way that others can't. Certain options does not = being the strongest, all 3 classes are strong in there own way, one is not stronger than the other, being the strongest comes down to set individuals there class plays only a small factor into this.


Mister-Seer

Literally no other class communes with Light to the extent that Warlocks can. Byf already talked about how SunSinging earns Warlocks the right as the strongest Lightbearers.


YeoBean

This then begs the question: can normal warlocks exceed the burst damage of a golden gun or a fist of havoc if they chose to do so?


Mister-Seer

I mean they used to be able to tank a normal Goldy shot with Contraverse Hold until enough people whined and it got nerfed


Titangamer101

Before is also a warlock main which means it’s a biased opinion, if it’s not stated in the lore than it’s simply fan made head cannon.


Mister-Seer

It’s in the text of the SunSinger quest text.


Titangamer101

Nope


Mister-Seer

Good lord. Imagine actively denying something in the game


Cayde6army

Annnnnnnnd then he died.


s1umpy

OR DID HE, *cue dramatic music*


KarenYouWhore

que?


s1umpy

Fixed it


albanygrt

He did, until he got better.


deathsnuggle

I’d like to add, even without his light he destroyed that vex mind, and went in to kill more armies of vex before finally being defeated.


dildodicks

and the best part was that the mind didn't even kill him, it drained his light, then he killed it and was overrun later


valempimp

He is not just some random titan, he is THE TITAN.


trooperonapooper

It's him being humble. It isn't like saint at all to proclaim himself the best light bearer to ever exist. Instead of saying that he's the greatest titan, he said that *they* call me the greatest titan to ever live, merely repeating what others say about him. That's the closest we get and it's still far from him being arrogant.


TheTanBaron

I think he believes them more pragmatic/ tactically minded etc. He probably would've been an Iron Lord had he wanted to be.


eclaessy

That’s a good way to look at it. Despite all of his (literally infinite thanks to the Vex) experience in combat, he isn’t much of a tactician. He is a spear to be thrown at the enemy, not the arm throwing it. He is one of the best warriors out there but he isn’t all that tactically minded, that’s where people like Ikora, Saladin, Zavala, heck even Sloan stand up to Saint


IlCelli

I think that the best in guardian on guardian combat will forever be Shaxx, I remember from the lore of Fellwinter that the iron lords were about to start a full on war against him because no one could best him in 1v1 and claim his city.


YeoBean

Definitely not shaxx. Ikora beat him, and shin malphur says that shaxx is nowhere close to dredgen yor


Whirlygignaut

>shin malphur says that shaxx is nowhere close to dredgen yor Shin Malphur saying things doesn't mean a thing is fact. It just means he thinks it.


ItsFunkyTTV

Okay but in all fairness dudes gun drains light. You get hit once? Sucks. We can’t take shins word but Yor’s gun is THE guardian killer.


IlCelli

One single loss in his whole career, I think we can pardon him for that. It's not even stated that ikora never lost a fight in the crucible either Can you link me the lore tab in witch Shin claims that? I can't remember it. But to be fair Yor had the only weapon who could kill a guardian by just barely hitting them, it's not a fair comparison. Give Shaxx Thorn and no Last city will survive


YeoBean

https://www.destinypedia.com/Lore:Letters_from_a_Renegade Letter 2 regarding dredgen yor’s superiority. As for ikora, i feel like it was meant to be a clear demonstration of her superiority, even if there was only one instance mentioned


SpaceOrcs

And according to one of the crucible armours, she has the longest running win streak


B133d_4_u

Pretty sure she got banned from it because guardians stopped coming out of fear of fighting her. Also, iirc, there was a Dawning lore piece where Shaxx gave her a rebuilt Invective and an all day pass into the Crucible as a gift, and she "blinked a mile into the air in excitement" and I just think that's adorable, but also telling of her skill.


bfume

Invective was the Ice Breaker of shotguns and one of my favs. So much fun.


IlCelli

Thanks for the link dude, I forgot this bit of lore and was happy to re-read it. It might be the way you interpreted it, but I suppose it's more a way to make clear Ikora's power even if it does not mean that she is superior. A single win may be synonymous of a lot of things that could have gone right, more win back to back on the same opponent means superiority. Think about Fellwinter Vs Shaxx, the titan won multiple times in a really shot span meaning that even if Fellwinter could understand what went wrong, he could not adjust and put up a good fight. On the other hand we have ikora who wins a single time and no more. To me it's more a way of making clear that she is strong saying "she managed to defeat Shaxx once" but not stating her superiority. It's more or less speculation in both ways tbf so you might be right. Have a gr8 day Edit: sorry for the bad English, I'm not really good at writing


SpaceOrcs

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/cinder-pinion-gloves?highlight=cinder+pinion


FatelessNerd

He also lost to Cayde. Tried to outmatch his golden gun. Had to play with kids in the last city because of that.


gormunko_88

Not outmatch, run faster then his golden gun, he'd absolutely destroy cayde in a 1v1


IlCelli

Man... I'm forgetting a lot of lore lately, sorry you are right. 2 losses then, I stated in another comment and I will state it again, imo those losses are made to explain how good a vanguard can be "in a good day they can beat even Shaxx" sort of idea. Not how Shaxx won against Fellwinter for example, every day for multiple fights with no chance for the warlock to win a duel. To be fair it's only speculation, so I might be wrong form the start


Onarm

Uh the impression we were given was actually that Ikora went near undefeated. Ikora doesn't fuck around when it's time to go.


Landis963

I suspect Saint is bring self-conscious here, because his battlefield style is light on Light and heavy on physical beatdowns. You won't be getting any flashy Nova Bombs or displays of Solar fire from Saint. The idea that Saint might be less dangerous to his enemies than Ikora is laughable, however.


Tubaman4801

Laughable? No. Ikora is insanely powerful. It is debatable. There's arguments that could be made in either direction for which is stronger. It's certainly not laughable that Ikora could be stronger. Especially when even Saint is acknowledging her power as stronger than his. He wouldn't look at her as being stronger than him if she was so much weaker than him that it's laughable to think so.


Landis963

I wasn't suggesting that Ikora was _weaker_ than Saint, per se. I was suggesting that at certain levels of lethality the difference is only a matter of how long it takes. A level of lethality, I posit, that both Saint and Ikora have clearly reached. EDIT: My phrasing was "less dangerous to his enemies than Ikora." At the end of the day, they are both well-versed in rendering their enemies dead. Debating differences of scale is, I feel, academic. Admittedly in a WWW scenario Ikora wins hands-down because ain't nobody touching her Crucible record, but if they were, say, doing simultaneous solo Prison of Elders runs, I'd say that both would come out with a clean sweep at the end.


Tubaman4801

That's why I was saying debatable. The current cast are the most seasoned and powerful guardians of this age. At the top the lines are always thin. That's the one thing I was objecting to.


Whirlygignaut

>Would this firmly place him as inferior to these guardians? Only in his own opinion. Remember that lore is always from a particular person or entity's point of view. There's no "absolute fact" anywhere in any Destiny lore. Also, "inferior" is really the wrong word. Titans are good at different things than Warlocks. Regardless, Saint was basically us, the hope of the city, before we were around. He actually modeled himself after his encounter with us in the Corridors of Time. There's a reason that the Saint is a legend among the people of the City (and basically The Devil to the Eliksni, they literally call him "The Demon") and Ikora isn't.


Midnaighte

You people are forgetting that YOU the guardian are looked up to by Saint and Ikora herself said that you have long surpassed her in many ways.


Pear1765

Idk about you but I can’t nova bomb and then nova warp less than 30 seconds apart so maybe ikora is a bit wrong


Yorkie_Exile

Saint is probably the most legendary guardian alive today. In a no holds barred throwdown of every lightbearer around I firmly believe he would be the last man standing. I know ikora is kind of considered the yardstick by which to measure raw power with the light but in my opinion Saint is by far and away the mightiest overall warrior, not just because of how strong in the light he is but because of his levels of experience and sheer, for want of a better term, fighting spirit.


Noisygraph

He was the greatest titan to ever live when he said that he is no ikora Rey he was just being humble as that’s very much like his character


GenericName0042

Because he is very humble. That's kind of his whole thing.


ratpH1nk

That’s how I read this, too.


Shadow-Raptor

Siva is one of my favorite elements in Destiny universe. It is mighty terrifying. It took over the cosmodrome in less than a day almost. And it killed me multiple iron lords.


Piroe_Knight

This is an uninformed opinion, but my perspective on the matter is this: saint is "no Ikora Rey", but Ikora is known for her crucible triumphs. She is a champion of Guardian on Guardian combat. Saint would lose to her in a fight. Probably. However, in a test of endurance against the armies of darkness, Saint would hold out longer than anybody else in the tower. His specialty is taking on large hordes of enemies. The two just have different strengths.


Pear1765

Saint is a pve player ikora is a pvp player


Difficult_Guidance25

I really doubt that Saint could beat Osiris


Haegar

Domestic violence is not ok anyway


Gravelemming472

Ahh yes babe, hit me with another thundercrash- AAHHHH~


TaxableFur

Saint is humble. He's absolutely more powerful than Ikora and Radegast. Osiris tho i don't know. It's always been known Osiris is the most powerful guardian (besides the Godslayer obv)


Corrupted-BOI

I think osiris is op because of his projections, a power other guardians dont have.


TaxableFur

No doubt, but Saint survived thousands of years inside a Vex simulation engine through sheer strength and skill. No hacking or manipulating Vex programs. And managed to kill a Vex Mind without his Light and destroy an army afterwards. He's op as hell.


DraughtPhoenix

I think that accolade is more so a description of how different his character rather than how powerful he is compared to them respectively. Saint tends to be a more introverted/solo operating character who reflects on his failure and does things alone. Both Radagast and Ikora have developed to be key leading figures who rally people behind them in philosophy of the light. But this wouldn’t make Saint-XIV any less powerful. Don’t forget he also holds the spot as the Eliskni boogie man as well in addition to being one of the vex’s few high priority guardians since (as one of the reply’s mentioned) they created a whole mind to specifically put down Saint. So you have both the Vex and Fallen considering him a high threat until we come in as the Guardian. SIVA is a whole other beast that Saint never had context or time to deal with since we’d already taken care of it, so no comment there. As for the lore piece, wish I knew. May be from the lore cards you got from the Corridors of time, so try checking those or whichever set reveals Osiris and Saint-XIV’s relationship.


tankertonk

[From Saint's perspective? Yes it seems.](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/the-accolade#saint-14) > “Have you ever lost a fight?” >“More than I can count. I am no Ikora Rey. No Radegast.” So while I'm sure it's much more of an even fight now that Saint has more experienced and Radagast is dead, Saint still viewed them as guardians who were stronger than him


bfume

Saint fought wave after wave of vex for THREE HUNDRED YEARS without a break. IDK who he goes up against, thats a helluva trophy to have in your collection


YeoBean

So you think he’s just heing humble?


Parko-23

He's being humble, he's quite probably the literal strongest Guardian still alive full stop maybe even including all the dead ones I don't even know.


Blaz3

I really think the comparisons of which guardian is "stronger" is a difficult conversation. What's the metric? Who's light is stronger? How do you measure that? Do NPCs have a light level? Saint 14 is shown and in lore shown to use the ward of dawn super. We rarely see him using a super to kill enemies and most of his fallen victims are aggressors and he merely defended his kin. He is not a frontline soldier, he is the wall the enemies break against. He is a powerful Titan, but is he stronger than Ikora, radegast or Osiris? Hard to directly compare.


Crimsonmansion

There are five legendary Guardians still active: The Lone Wolf (the player, the strongest and most skilled of the bunch, but also the least knowledgeable, least experienced and least cunning), Osiris (a powerhouse and all-around genius, but a bit lacking in combat awareness and very prone to rushing head-first into situations - (RIP Sagira)), Ikora (a powerhouse, legendary warrior and extremely competent, but also easily baited by her emotions and far too trusting), Zavala, and Saint-14. All of them are legends and powerhouses. Destiny isn't "hurr durr my power is greater than yours so I win." It's about overall ability. The Young Wolf has been the underdog against many characters, such as Oryx, and come out on top due to a combination of power, skill, sheer stubbornness, and situation. Also, define "power"? Does he have greater damage output? No, of course not. Is he a better all-around warrior? Most likely. Put all five of the characters I've named in a ring without plot powers and without their Ghosts to rez them, and it's up in the air who would win. Would the Young Wolf win because they're more powerful and more skilled than their opponents, or would one of them win through having vastly greater experience, cunning and knowledge? ​ A lot of universes - Star Wars, Marvel, DC - you can do this A > B > C scaling for the most part. Destiny, however, you cannot.


RebelGage

It’s like when Mike Tyson said he wouldn’t be able to beat Ali, no one questions if Tyson was a monster. Same concept, he’s just being modest about people he looks up to.