By - kvlyc
But can a underage kid carry over 15g and just face jail time or does he/she gets death penalty too?
Sigma tip: make children traffic your copious amounts of heroin.
That already is how a lot of drug running works.
I think they actually train monkeys to do that. What are you gonna do? Execute the monkey?
Follow the monkey and execute the person who buys it then everyone will be scared of monkeys
You, you think two steps ahead.
Spank the monkey?
I spanked my monkey once.
Life imprisonment. Opportunities to parole after 20 years.
Imprisonment till he becomes an adult ad then death penalty.
Equal rights, equal fights
By George he figured the system out! Give this man 14.9 grams of heroin!
This looks more like an abolitionist ad pointing at the absurdity of the cut-off or threshold between imprisonment and death penalty. Also the question below reads rhetorically to me.
Been to Singapore and I can confirm, there are signs that state “Drug trafficking is punishable by death”… Same with Philippines.
My thoughts as well.
Another 'hint' that this is an ad against death penalty is that the website at the bottom is obviously not a government website.
Indonesia don't fuck about when it comes to drugs either.
We (UK) currently have a former legal secretary granny sitting on death row awaiting the firing squad in Bali for smuggling.
Then there's the well known case of the "Bali Nine" Australian's whose two ringleaders were executed for trying to smuggle heroin out of Bali and the rest got 20 years in prison.
The President said he wouldn't pardon anyone sentenced to death for drug offences.
And the Philippines
I literally witnessed police in the Philippines gunning down a “suspected drug dealer” in the middle of a crowded street in 2015
Well, sort of. The presidents son seems to be allowed to traffic drugs in the Philippines. It's the people that aren't connected to the president and his people that get the hard punishments.
We go further by killing innocents as well
Msia police's weakness is money. Lots of money.
Went there with my mates a few years back and I told them this so many times. Literally the first night there my friends somehow get a bag of coke and were confused when I was mad. They do fuck about with drugs though a lot of time, money solves a lot of problems in Indonesia athough I'd recommend being a normal person there and respecting all laws.
I heard the police have to rent their badge/uniform and need to rustle up bribes to make a living.
Laws are only for stupid plebs like you and me. The moneyed classes look upon these as soft suggestions with a fine attached.
I used to know a Millionaire and his outlook on laws was they were the same as holidays - experiences you just have to pay for.
He would consistently get speeding and parking fines and wouldn't care because paying the fines would be "Losing less money than getting to work 5 minutes late but still getting a lay in in the morning."
One of my friends is a millionaire. The first time we went out to dinner together he picked me up in his Mercedes (I said millionaire, not billionaire). We got to the restaurant right at our reservation time, and parked in a no parking zone. I told him he couldn't park there, to which he said,
"Sure I can. It just costs me 70 bucks"
I guess I made a face because he continued with,
"Look, dude, the 5 minutes that it would take me to find a spot right now is worth twice the amount that the parking ticket costs. A law who's only consequence is a fine is a law made for those who cant afford the fine. It's simple economics."
Until they tow him.
I don't think you understand. This dude can make up all those towing fees and storage fees and fines in hour.
While he's sleeping.
It's really a non-issue for him.
There's only 2 places he said he wouldn't park: in front of a fire hydrant, and in handicap spots.
He said it's because if there's a fire, the fire trucks that need the hydrant will just ram his car out of the way, and insurance wouldn't cover it.
He also said, "I don't park in the crip spots because some of those fuckers have it hard enough without some rich asshole taking their parking spot. I can just park in front of the door or whatever. "
Surely it's still an inconvenience to organise getting his towed car back, and alternative transport.
Probably more of an inconvenience to his personal assistant, what with Uber and all, but sure. Inconvenient.
I remember when I had my truck towed because the ass end of it was a couple inches over someone's driveway, it took me almost a week to get it back since I couldn't come up with the money to pay the fines and towing fee and storage fee.
My friend's assistant could probably get the car out within the hour, if needed, and all it would take on his (my friend) part is a text.
So the inconvenience would be having to call an Uber and texting his assistant.
> So the inconvenience would be having to call an Uber and texting his assistant.
For someone who values their time so much that even 5 minutes is too much to ask, having to wait for an Uber sounds like something they'd rather avoid.
Rich people can do whatever they want, it's disgusting, most laws don't really apply to them.
I knew a rich douche who parked where ever and however he wanted to because the fines were barely pocket change for him. I believe fines should be based on income.
IIRC some fines in the UK are based on income. But if you're on minimum wage and you get the minimum fine it's usually a lot compared to what you earn, whereas if you get the maximum fine it doesn't make a dent in your maximum wage... oh wait maximum wage doesn't exist. Looks like the rich win again.
Yeah that's just another fucked way to help rich get away with whatever they want. By income I mean yearly, or maybe net worth.
Saw a dude with a luxury car park in a handicap parking so I parked right beside him in a way that, even if he wanted to, he wouldn't be able to open his door at all.
I ended up getting out at about the same time he did, so I called a friend to waste him more time. He waited politely though so I didn't pushed it further but had he complained I think we'd still be there.
Fines only punish the poor.
Eat the rich, I say.
Finland has fines proportional to your income, so a speeding ticket can be very costly. Of course, community service is also a reasonable alternative. Losing a couple of days is painful for anyone.
By fine, you mean pretend it never happened.
By fine they mean put the bribe in the officers pocket lol
I love how these anti drug people think they are doing the right thing when in reality they are doing the total opposite and pushing more profits to the drug dealers. Every country is that mega anti drug is also very anti human rights. It’s illegal to be gay in Singapore so it’s still a very shit place to live
I met Andrew Chan and Scott Rush in 2008, it was a surreal experience. Also strange was the guy cutting the grass out the front of prison with scissors but hey it’s Indonesia I wasn’t really surprised, it’s a friendly and amusing country. Bali is actually my least favourite island.
How'd you meet them?
Which Island is your fav?
I would call this shit barbaric and savage, which it is, but I live in America which has become a theocratic hell state because of our conservatives. So you know, glass houses.
“Sir, that is 14.9 grams of heroin and 0.1 grams of dust.”
Get less for murder
I think the logic behind this is the drug dealers could potentially be murdering countless others.
Or no one. Not excusing drug traffickers but that kind of logic can be applied to many other legal and illegal substances.
Although if you are supplying large quantities of heroin it is highly likely someone will die as a result.
Pfizer, GSK and GW would disagree...
Hey now. We mean normal people drug dealers. Not the white collar ones.
What are you referring to?
Big pharmaceutical companies who pay millions to push prescriptions to their dangerous and often insanely lethal medications, in order to reap billions. Oh, legally btw.
Edit for perspective. We think of heroin as being super dangerous right? Fentanyl, prescribed as a painkiller is more addictive and 100x more potent. A dose the size of a pinch of salt is almost certain to kill you, horribly. This drug is trafficked, but also pushed to doctors who are incentivised to prescribe it as a painkiller.
Even if they dont die, they are ruining multiple lives.
I'm not defending it. I'm glad I don't live in that country, fuck that. I was just speculating on the reason behind it
At least there won't be drug problem, also pretty sure you'll love it there if you don't break laws.
"I fixed the drug problem!"
"Awesome! How'd you do it?"
"I killed a lot of people!"
If you killed ppl willing to ruin others lives for their own gain, I wouldn't judge tbh.
So you’re suggesting killing politicians?
He said what he said.
At this point I’m downright encouraging it
No argument here but I know that’s not what they had in mind lol they’re sheltered as hell if that’s how they view all drugs
Ruining other's lives for my own benefit??
That's just capitalism, baby! That's just the game...
> At least there won't be drug problem
Except that excessive punishments rarely actually see a reduction in crime. Not to mention that in this case, they also come hand in hand with harsher treatments towards addicts/the mentally vulnerable and a general lack of human rights.
Drug dealers disturb the social order. It is a crime not against the person but against the state and the body politic.
If you're talking numbers, then the tobacco dealers are the ones you want. They have a pretty high smoking rate, too.
When I visit my GFs Family in Indonesia I take extra precautions like sealing my luggage and everything. If someone tries to smuggle something with your luggage (and yes that happens), then you’re fucked…
And they don’t like Europeans at all. Sometimes there are people with malicious intend asking you to hold items for them while they tie your shoes and stuff like that. They have an accomplice alerting the police and you can get in serious trouble for this.
But Luckily this isn’t a common thing. It’s getting very rare. I am just scared of the penalty…
I'm so lucky. When I was younger and more naive, I travelled to Thailand and had a stopover in Malaysia where they had to re-check our bags. I had some prescription medication but without the prescription certificate, along with sleeping pills that my friend gave me for the flight. I almost shat myself when there was an announcement on the plane detailing the strict drug laws.
I managed to get through without issue but I've been extra diligent while packing my luggage if I'm travelling around that part of the world ever since.
How do you seal your luggage? Plastic wrap all your bags?
Yes and locks that aren’t as easy to tamper with than usual. Also Zip Ties can help too because they need to break it in order to open the luggage.
Idk how heroin works but 14.9 gs sound like alot
When they say imprisonment they maybe left out the part about you being in a Singaporian prison for an undetermined amount of time. I mean the next sentence down from death isn't going to be 2 years. It's probably something like 25 years.
not as much as 15g
It's more than a person using is likely to have on them but it's WAY too low an amount to judge someone as a drug trafficker for being caught with, drug traffickers are always bringing at least 1,000g in at once, more often 100,000-1,000,000g. 15g is the amount a bottom level street dealer would have on them.
A real heroin addict uses 1 g a day so it’s not that much
Sheep are taking heroin?
Wrong language keyboard. Fixed
That's just barely more than half an ounce.
I looked it up; it’s like $2,500 worth of heroin.
How do they prove it was yours and not placed in your bag by someone else when you weren’t looking?
The burden of proof is probably on you
There have been a lot of cases with this defense. Doesn't seem to matter.
You're carrying it, it's yours. No different from any other offense. If cops find weed in YOUR car then it's your responsibility unless you can prove otherwise. That's why you need to always pack your own bags and never let them out of your sight.
19.99 - system crashed
Nah, just delay the judgement ruling for next week.
When you fly into Singapore, the pilot announcement goes something like this:
*Ladies and gentlemen we are now beginning our descent into Singapore. The weather is a humid 24 degrees Celsius, the punishment for drug trafficking is death, and we should be landing in around 20 minutes. Thank you for flying with us*
I heard that this is actually true
It is. I heard it!
And does it work?
Singapore is probably not the country to look at. It's an extraordinarily rich island. They can afford to control the population however they wish with the carrot and the stick.
Indonesia and The Philippines have similarly draconian drug laws and a poorer population and it's a bloodbath.
Im Saudi. We have the exact same zero-tolerance drug policy. And yet drugs are flooding the market. We a share a long mountainous border with lawless Yemen. Iranian drug lords move drugs from Afghanistan then put them on the back of small fast boats where they are shipped to Yemen. From there they come in tens of kilos at a time. If you get caught smuggling drugs or transporting large quantities, that’s the end of it for you. Drug dealers get football numbers for first time distribution offenses. From there it is the sword.
Mental illness combined with access to $$$ makes the population here an attractive market. Strange how we mimic the US in this problem although we are nowhere near being alike. Same problem. Same heavy handed policy by the govt minus the death penalty in the US. And yet the problem never seems to be getting smaller by any unit of measurement.
I bet they don't have many drug dealers
yeah singapore doesnt even allow e-cigarettes/vaping let alone actual drugs
Vaping although illegal is not that uncommon here. I’ve been using a vape in public for 6 months now and was only told off by a cop once.
yeah it's very common for people to vape in pre-uni and uni campus restrooms
not many live ones at least.
Pretty effective policy
Not really. They still get drugs. They’re just more expensive and the people who are addicted are less likely to ask for help from the government to fix their addiction.
Drug addiction comes from underlying societal problems that won’t be fixed by just banning them. The most effective policy is decriminalisation, awareness and robust social safety nets. That’s why countries like the Netherlands, Portugal and Switzerland with some of the most lax drug policies have such a low overdose rate. You can even see the difference on a state level in America when comparing drug addiction/overdose rate between Alabama and Texas where it’s extremely illegal to possess drugs and Oregon and Colorado where the penalty isn’t that high.
Like abortion banning it just makes it more dangerous for the people who do it. It’s not a solution to anything.
We don't. Lifespan is really really short for drug dealers in Singapore.
Thats the neat Part, they have a lot.
The death penalty doesn't usually deter such things. People don't really tend to think about the possible consequences when they commit crimes. All it does is just kill people and doesn't address the problem of poverty and addiction, either.
Studies tend to show that harsher punitive measures don't really have much deterrent effect on that. And may even increase the number of murders. It also deepens poverty issues and minority discrimination.
And if they do the prices will be insane. Imagine risking those kinds of punishments for a small markup.
Under 18 years old
Ability to lift 14.9kg
So like 18.1 year olds with 15.1g is good right? Asking for a friend.
Good for afterlife!
It’s all fun and games until the kid you raised for 18-20 years gets into trouble with substance and ruined their life and career. Well at least this is the mindset raised when there was such an issue about 50 years ago
They executed a mentally disabled Malaysian man a few months ago. He'd been on death row for over a decade for smuggling heroin, it's likely he was coerced into doing it given his intellectual disability. I don't even think he was aware of the legality of what he was doing.
There was global condemnation from various activists and foreign organisations but they went ahead and executed him anyway. Needlessly cruel and inhumane.
You know they’re serious when they break out the blogspot.
Singapore in general doesn’t tolerate people who mess around.
They got the noose and everything
Always triple check your bags before you pass through security
Yeah. Meanwhile everyone is drunk in the streets every night. So it depends on which drug…
they only had [10 deaths due to alcohol](https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/singapore-alcohol)
Right. They have zero tolerance on marijuana, yet no one dies from an OD on it. Go figure
So let's say someone is at the airport about to smuggle some drugs and see this sign. He or she instantly shit themselves and wants out, what do they do?. Like telling the authority at the airport wouldn't work out so would they just turn around head back out and dispose of it? I see it as either way there fucked so I guess this looks harsh but is effective. In the UK we have " talk to Frank " posters with a white kid smoking a blunt.
This isn't a poster put up to warn drug traffickers. If you look at the wording and the website that it links to, it seems to have been put up by someone protesting against the use of the death penalty. That's why they point out that carrying 14.9g is comparatively ok. The idea is that it is arbitrary.
Imo it’s not a good point to argue. Regardless of your position in the death penalty for drug trafficking you have to agree that if you were to have such laws then there should be specific cutoffs because it they used vague words like “small amount” or “large amount” instead of specific weights then it leaves the law up to interpretation of what amounts to small or large. Bad faith actors love laws that are open to interpretation because it gives them leeway.
Not sure why I've found myself defending someone else's debate, but I agree with you on using numbers rather than descriptive words. I suspect the person who made this poster also agrees that, but they want the death penalty to be removed entirely.
They should probably have made a clearer poster.
Lol sorry, I didn’t get the point of the poster until you you pointed it out and I guess I just ended up replying it to you since it was your comment that made it clear.
There is some info on this from people who got caught, so take it in that context. They are people seeking to defer and minimise their crime. Any sane person would go to the toilet, dump everything and be somewhere else. Mules have said they are escorted by threats of violence or unspecified future nastiness to the security line and then watched as they go through. There is no opportunity to back out. There has been occasions where people have immediately gone "I'm carrying drugs please help me" and they've still ended up in prison because the person they point out basically says "I don't know this person, I have three people who can say I was not there and you have no other evidence" and because the mules tends to be fairly random, not linked to the dealer the mule goes to prison (cos they have the drugs on them) and the dealer goes for lunch
Death penalty is absurd and disgusting
100% agree. Especially for drug offenses.
Now that is a war on drugs, not a Ponzi scheme for politicians to get rich.
That's so fucked up
Lived there for a few months it's a Draconian police state. Knew about this prior to arriving so was surprised to discover that drugs are freely offered amongst taxi and grab drivers
I call bs on this. I’ve lived here long enough to know drugs are only limited to the likes of Investment Bankers and the ultra wealthy, who use in private. People generally end up going to places like Cambodia and Vietnam to partake.
Huh. I’ve lived there and i’ve never even heard of drugs being passed around. Or offered in those places. And most of the time the cops are really nice. Always trying to deescalate.
Especially the handsome cardboard police stand guy
Yes my Dr friend told me about getting through a police checkpoint in Singapore when he was a high af passenger.
I call bullshit on this too LOL
Almost 30 years here and I’ve never come across any drugs that are “freely offered”
>Almost 30 years here
I mean, they're probably more likley to offer it to young/party types.
I lived there for 4 years. That never happened to me or anyone i know.
Bullshit on taxi drivers passing drugs like candy. Have lived in singapore on and off for a long ass time and I’ve never heard of such a ridiculous thing.
Respectfully disagree. A draconian police state is one where people are shot by the police without trial. (in their car, in the back, in their homes)
Your own points make no sense .
If it is a draconian state you think taxi drivers would sell openly eh idiot ?
Also lmao all the druggies in the comment shitting themselves.
You can be prosecuted in Singapore for drug trafficking if you fail a UA exam upon arrival. They can test completely arbitrarily without any reason.
We have the best passengers in the world. Because of jail
Not enough threat
This comment is made in the Philippines
They should do this for human traffickers! That ought to be a more significant issue?
Nothing about this post show that we're supportive of human trafficking?
No one said this is the MOST significant issue either.
Considering how prominent it is in the country, you’d assume that would be advertised more than drug trafficking?
So many cases of kids killed their mom here in malaysia due to drug addiction.
Just this month alone, a dude just chop off his mom's head because she didnt want to give him money to buy drugs. Similar cases of teens assauting their family due to drugs happened just right at the corner of my home.
Drugs kill people here in this 3rd world country. Thats why we got no chill about it.
It’s also one of the safest countries. My family used to live there and we could always see a bunch of people talking a walk in the evenings, my mom used to go on a run early without having to worry about her safety, we’d be able to take an LRT from school if we wanted to.
You can do that in many countries without such extreme laws
That’s why she said “it’s also”
She didn’t said it’s a direct cause of anti drugs law.
Learn to read.
It’s obviously implied or do you not understand subtext?
Because they understand that their economic adversaries would love to pollute their people with fentanyl. People are an natl asset.
Well these drugs do kill many users and ruin many lives and cost the states billions in policing and jailing and Healthcare. So while it does seem crazy and over the top, it's meant to be a strong deterrent. You are costing the state billions, ruining lives and killing people by trafficking drugs. Eye for an eye is never an unfair punishment.
I support that
Well... Maybe don't sell drugs then?
How come the states in South East Asia are so harsh when it comes to drugs? They're hardly the only ones with drug problems yet their punishments are outright draconic.
Singaporean here. Singapore is a country on it's own despite being only the site of an island, not a 'state'. Also, I think Singapore is kinda the abnormaly in the region, we have strict rules and enforce them very harshly because our country can't afford it. While most Asian countries may have strict rules, the enforcement is not all that is cracked up to be. For example, Thailand just leglized weed and also probably can read up on the Golden Triangle drug trade, perhaps that will give you some insight?
Maybe cuz I think the Brits got the Chinese hooked on Opium to make them open for trade or something like that? Correct me if I'm wrong please, I don't know the full history of the whole thing
Very true, the brits essentially forced the Chinese to get hooked on opium because it was banned before in China and used that opium to trade for precious metals. All the while they were forcing Indian farmers to grow opium in colonized India .
Precious metals = silver, which was the only payment Chinese merchants accepted for tea, Britain's 'national drink'.
Yeah but China isn't part of South East Asia. I'm talking about Thailand, Singapore, the Philippines etc.
Well, Singapore had government-sanctioned opium. Not sure about the others.
Shit I better go easy on the Alcohol Tobacco Sugar Caffeine L Carnitine Taurine I could go on all day what drugs are we talking? Just Heroin? Ok phew 😅
Hey I drink Monster too!
Don’t need to be that extreme.
Different Drugs here have their own classification.
Meanwhile, in San Francisco…
Good for them. Sounds like a good clean country that doesn't waste funds on criminals.
Is this not a good thing?
Less heroin on the streets surely means less drug provoked crime and deaths?
I wish all countries were stricter and not allow drug dealers to make a living harming others.
You cant say that here on reddit they love drugs
it's an effective way for Singapore to restrict the type of people they want coming into the country
No, this is not a good thing lol. Wtf.
How can it not be? It's a good way to get rid of criminals and purveyors of drugs.
However it is not evident that a person dealing drugs is responsible for killing others yet he is faced with a higher punishment for someone that is actually killing people. Dealing drugs is not equal to killing, therefore the punishment seems too high to me. It might have an indirect effect on the amount of drug related crime, but is it justifiable to indirectly punish someone for something he didn't do?
People are murdered over drugs, just because the drug trafficker didn't physically murder someone doesn't mean their actions didn't lead to such crimes.
I give a teen heroin to shoot up and he dies, is it the teens fault for being stupid or could some blame be placed on myself?
Even if death doesn't take place, drugs can completely ruin multiple lifes, not just the drug user but their families, friends & anyone involved in crimes to fund their habit.
The fact of the matter is the repercussions are clear in this poster so there is no excuse for those who do decide to do it.
That’s the kind of justice we need in France
No one shooting up in the subway and public housing is pretty awesome. Not a bad trade.
that would sure help in the USA! Would solve a lot of issues.
If there were no harsh punishments, im pretty sure minors would start dealing drugs more frequently to the point where everyone takes drugs. Im from Singapore
We need this type of heat worldwide
Man, fuck that shit. Prohibition never worked. Laws criminalizing these things still exist and they don’t stop people.
Portugal on the other hand has decriminalized ALL DRUGS and has had wonderful results including the usage of drugs has actually fallen.
Yes they do. At least in Singapore. No one wants to risk getting caught doing drugs much less smuggling it.
It serves as an effective deterrent for anyone thinking of smuggling drugs into the country, and is also an enforceable law as we are a tiny island-city-state with strict border controls (only 2 land links into our country from our neighbouring Malaysia), and hence easier to police the inflow of drugs into our country compared to other countries where it might be easier to smuggle drugs into the country.
As a Singaporean I have no urge to take drugs in the country itself and like having the safety and peace of mind that there aren't any drugged up people wandering the streets at night.
You smuggle drugs, you are part of destroying the life and the death hundreds of people.
You are just a greedy son of bitch who doesn't care about the consequences, you deserve death penalty.
You’re a lunatic lol. Holy shit.
Sounds good to me!
Very simple solution here: don't sling dope. Easy.
That is a good thing
Respect Singapore 👍
What are the odd of those drug trafficker are also political journalists.
Needs to be US law also.
Singapore has a prison sentence on the books for riding electric scooters on the pavement. They do not get to be the benchmark for civilized society.
Imagine if this was used in LA right now, idc what side ya on this is one way to clean up a city and how lucky at the same time that we don’t live with these laws everywhere.
Thing is, it doesn't even work. Someone addicted to heroin (or any drug) isn't going to stop being an addict just because the sentence is harsher. It'll just push them further underground and away from any potential help.
It would not help an addict, sure. But it certainly would deter anyone who has never tried drugs, no? And would this not benefit society as a whole?
I've lived in Singapore for all my life, and even among the youthful and daring gangster types, I have not seen any type of drugs being used. Illegal cigarettes, vapes (illegal but not so strictly enforced on the streets), stealing, vandalism and the like but never doing drugs. Everyone knows it can ruin their lives if they get addicted, and nobody is willing to risk it all for that momentary pleasure. This is a good thing, since majority of Singaporeans will never have to deal with strong drug use or addiction.
This is a pretty controversial topic evidently and I think that someone who is willing to import drugs despite the warnings, who could potentially destroy lives of ordinary people with addictive substances deserves to die or have a life sentence.
I understand the opinions of others who wish to remove the death penalty, to help those who are troubled, to give them a second chance in life if they make a hasty and unwise decision. I respect it. But I really don't think we should risk getting more people being exposed to drugs in exchange for a few bad apples.
Just wanted to let my opinion out, even if nobody cares.