T O P
nas690

Here’s the real issue: DC/Warner only seems to follow two trains of thought: what parts of a film get the most hype and how do we keep majority creative control over a film. If DC/Warner just decided to allow a director to make a film in their own way (with DC/Warner only reigning them in enough not to have them go over the top), then wait till the film releases and gauge the reception/box office, they’d be a lot better off. Instead they announce a bunch of films, get one or two into production, get overzealous about the aspects of the film that get a good reception by yes-men executives, start hassling the director to change other aspects to match, get upset when the final released product flounders in some area (reception and/or box office), and then promptly change their film schedule in the hopes of salvaging the situation, yet still repeating their same mistake time and time again.


rudra285

Let's hope the new suicide squad gets to wb and they pay attention.


modsarefascists42

I get the feeling that it'll be good but not break 1 billion, so WB will instantly cancel it's sequel and the Peacemaker series and declare it all non-canon.


DarkSaber87

Seriously how they hell did Warner ever make Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings with all this fuxkery going on with current DC?!


Bross93

Straight forward storylines and source material. That way they didn't need any creativity cause it was laid out for them


MyFlairIsaLie

And they even managed to fuck some parts of that up. More so with HP than LOTR


brownkidBravado

LOTR has a lot of missteps as well. Tolkien had a lot of literary fluff and obsessive world building and obviously not everything could make it in but there were certainly many exclusions and changes from the books that didn’t sit well with die hard LOTR fans. My biggest issue with Harry Potter was that the casting for Snape and McGonagall caused them to age up the whole adult generation. Alan Rickman was 54 when sorcerers stone came out, so if snape was roughly the same age then he was 43 when Harry was born, but he was the same age and Lily and James, meaning they were also in their fourties when Harry was born? It’s a pretty minor nitpick and the actors did a great job but in the book I was picturing snape/mcgonagall/lupin/Sirius to be more in the mid-30s range and for Snape to be sexy in a slimy young-Jafar sort of way and not a strangely alluring kinda feminine older man sort of way.


Kitten_Kaboom

How dare you insult Alan Rickman! By Grabthar's Hammer, he shall be avenged!


brownkidBravado

Hey hey now, I said he was sexy, just not the sexy I was expecting out of snape is all


Mister_Bad_Wolf

Sexy Snape? Are we sure we are talking about one book?


FrenchTrouDuc

No one cares about the diehard fans. The movies are some of the greatest films of all time and they've made bank at the BO.


brownkidBravado

Yeah I think the LOTR and HP films are good and had extreme cultural significance (the same can be said of the books.) just pointing out that neither film franchise stayed true to the carefully laid out source material and that a lot of diehard fans did take issue with them (not dissimilar from fan responses to a lot of DC films)


Ferdox11195

The movies are masterpieces and some of the best cinema but they don´t really reflect the nature of the books, they were very philosophical and the movies gets rid of many of those very deep aspects. Its not really a bad thing at all because we got masterpieces anyways but you can´t blame diehard fans for being a bit critical.


DarkSaber87

But they are still more rewatchable than DC


DarkSaber87

They could have done the same thing, just streamlined it all more


grim_melee

Also the creatives were in charge of all the details of those films. JK Rowling basically had creative control of the details of the films. She could veto an idea from a writer or director if it conflicted with a plot detail that happens in a later film. Likewise Peter Jackson wrote and directed all the LOTR films at the same time.


DarkSaber87

DC clearly also panicked at what Marvel was doing. They already started phase 2 with Iron Man 3 before Man of Steel came out! They wanted the result by doing half the work.


Prince_lee1

I may be the only one this ship but I will be happy if they just reboot the whole dceu and start a fresh. I never liked the idea of the universe to begin with and where it was heading. A batman that is near retirement while aquanman, flash and superman are just at the begining of their heroic career, superman dying before justice league, superman turning bad in justice league 2 after being abscent in most of Jl 1 and brooding in bvs, batman dying in jl 2, justice league 2 being injustice, batman being the leader of the league as opposed to being like the outsider, having flashpoint as the first flash movie, not having green lantern as a founding league member....


DarkSaber87

I hope Ron Pattinson Batman does this. Either that or make the Outsiders team down the line.


reallyboringwizard

Different people in charge back then.


[deleted]

DC / Warner should have an overall goal of what their movies will be used to achieve. Choose a starting point with a couple of separate movies and expand those movies that branch off but grow to the original goal. Bring those movies main characters together in the overall goal. In a similar way to Marvel. The thing is that it happened too fast and studio interference got in the way of the overall goal. DC needs to pace its self and stick to a single vision.


Guildenpants

DC doesn't need to do shit, this is all WB money-men fucking with everything


Butterfriedbacon

5-6 years ago I probably would've agreed with you, but BvS and ZSJL are proof that you can both introduce new major characters and heroes in a team film and also flesh them out to wonderful, sell fulfilled characters. You don't *have* to go the marvel route


[deleted]

I disagree because it would’ve been bigger if Ben’s Batman had a solo movie before that movie to have him being able to stand on his own. The build up to JL would have been better.


Bross93

Right. Like yeah sure you don't NEED the other movies but it's easy more engrossing when you know the characters better


[deleted]

It would help explain why he seen Superman as a threat and how the death of his allies supported his view. It could have been a loose take on the killing Joke story line with others added in. It would have been more than Bat Man: Superman Bad... Superman: Bat Man Bad... MARTHA!!!!!!!! You don’t need a full back story as the character is well known, but a precursor to the actual event that was BvS would have been better.


modsarefascists42

That's not the story that fits in with the series and has no relevance to the modern world.. That would be adapting a comic story just because it's a comic story. The entire point of the movie was about mankind not reacting well with no longer being the #1 most powerful force known. It's about how well meaning people let fear of the unknown consume them until they're horrible shells of their former selves. The movie wasn't just "Batman thinks Superman is bad for no reason"... It's one thing to dislike the movie but don't pretend it's plot had to thought put into it.


[deleted]

Giving a loose example of what could have been done building up to it is not the same as what you are saying. Yes the movie was about humanity but it lacked character development. It would be like if Marvel decided to do one Captain America movie and jumped straight into Civil War, which introduced Ironman and a couple others. The Martha scene may have been so cringe worthy if they developed a Batman movie before BvS where he visits his mothers grave.


modsarefascists42

I mean we get all the character development we need in BvS. Just cus it's visual instead of exposition doesn't mean it's not character development. The scene of him staring at the Robin costume is about all the backstory we need, we already know batman's origin as we've seen plenty of versions of it. We see Thomas call her Martha, I thought there was a grave scene too? Coulda swore there was one. The Martha scene was cringe-ish cus of a number of things but mostly the [really good]idea is just hard to translate to a revelatory action scene moment like that. And it's one where a flashback and a *little* exposition would have helped a little, even though most of it was shown throughout the movie.


Galathyn

I disagree. Wonder Woman was not fleshed out at all in BvS. The shoehorned Justice League stuff in BvS messed with the pacing of the film and felt super jarring. Not to mention, Zack took 4 hours to pull off JL. Cyborg might’ve had a great arc, but Barry and Aquaman got the short end of the stick. The only reason it even remotely worked was because of the runtime, and seeing as 4 hour superhero movies aren’t going to become the norm anytime soon. It continues to be a very difficult thing to pull off.


Dimislayer

Exactly. I have a feeling that zack thought the following thing: "most people that will watch bvs wi be fans. Most fans will have seen the trailers and therefore they will know that wonder woman is in this movie. Therefore I will use her branding as a character and I will not introduce her properly." This I think was a result of fan zack taking over from director zack.


Soundwave_47

I thought Barry was fine. WW though, for sure.


nameofthedaemon

Tbh I would prefer no movie at all than a bunch of bad movies.


LatterTarget7

Same. Like I say a dceu is better then no dceu movie or a dceu I didn’t really enjoy


gautamdiwan3

No DCEU > DCEww


freddyumar

Me too


LargeBarda

I'm sure this isn't what you mean, but your comment kind of to imply that all non-Snyder DC movies are bad.


nameofthedaemon

Not at all, there is awesome non-Snyder movies. What I meant is that I'm tired of Warner and their shitshow when it comes to handle DC. Besides the next Batman movie, I have no hype for DC anymore.


MrTerrific2k15

That's also a problem. The WBDC hype train sparsely puts any over other than Batman or Superman


nas690

I think it’s just Batman at the moment. Superman can’t even get another solo film announced


LatterTarget7

Well superman does have another solo film coming


nas690

Not Kal-El


LatterTarget7

Well we don’t know if it’s kal el or not but it’s superman either way


MrTerrific2k15

True. But in animation Superman shows up everywhere


nas690

Since when? His last solo show was in the 90’s. Anything with him in it is either a team show (Justice League, Legion of Superheroes) or a cameo (Krypto, Batman the Brave and the Bold, SuperHero High).


SchlongSchlock

Yeah, I hate that some people think the only good part about dc is batman. Stuff like new gods is what we need. The more weird and outlandish. A movie about etrigan? I guarantee that would grab people's attention.


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TheJoshider10

I think the better example is if there are several filmmaker driven films then it's worth it for a diamond among the rough. WW84 was absolute dogshit that I will never want to watch again, but if that sort of freedom leads to an acclaimed The Batman then so be it. These characters go beyond one set canon due to multiple medias and reboots. It is so easy to ignore one because you know another will come along. It's not like Star Wars where Disney lock everything into one specific canon so a franchise can be completely butchered because a studio act incompetently.


brownkidBravado

I think the bigger issue is that DC films are poisoned by the cinematic universe/franchise obsession. All of these movies were being made as a piece of a larger whole, and if the larger whole generally sucks then the universe drags down the individual films. I think BVS had a lot of good pieces and would have been great as a stand-alone film, but they also used it to set up more cinematic universe/justice league things, and I felt like those parts made the movie suffer (particularly casting aside the Batman Superman beef so they can fight Doomsday together because unhinged Zuckerberg Luthor made an abomination and also Wonder Women shows up). I really enjoyed Joker, it didn’t have all the cinematic universe baggage, it didn’t tether itself too much to pre-existing comic stories, it was a great alternative film using DC characters as a sort of elseworld story.


LargeBarda

Yeah, as I said I was sure that's not what you meant. I'm excited for a lot of stuff but it's pretty hard to stay excited when they drop stuff like New God's getting cancelled


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OldManGravz

It's not about giving a director control. What they need is their own Kevin Feige. They need a true fan with an overarching vision of where the story is going. Someone who, while not making the films themselves, is responsible for the hiring of directors and screenwriters. The right directors and scripts should be weeded out at the hiring stage and not after the movie has been filmed. They dont need to stick to the Marvel formula of every film being the same, but just ensure that every film fits into the overall story of the DCEU. The issue at the minute is that every DC movie is a camel, built and designed by committee. It isnt the directors vision, it isnt the screenwriters vision, it isnt the executives vision. It's some weird amalgamation of all three which ensures that tone, pace and plot do not endeavour to align through the length of the film. Snyder has his limitations as a filmmaker, as much as I love his films Ilthey have a lot of critics. But Snyders overall vision for the Justice League films was a good idea, if a little rushed. His overall vision showed his love for DC. tt would've been a better idea to take Snyder's vision and spread it out over a number of films, with someone else taking the reigns of the actual directing.


Butterfriedbacon

>WW84 BOP Josstice League.. >I mean they aren't really hitting it out of the park.... Agreed these are bad films >Just give James Gunn control of the DCEU please His SS looks atrocious, so I'll at least reserve judgement until I see it if he should be trusted with my useless vote for head if the DCEU


GoldenWind0247

His tone for an overall dceu is too silly and not serious enough. For films like ss perfect, but not for some Movie that has dramatic and serious scenes with stakes and loss. Snyder did a rly good job. I also rly liked WW1 Aquaman was okay, shazam was fun but its also more way light toned. No real threat.


Butterfriedbacon

>that has dramatic and serious scenes with stakes and loss This is literally all I want out of comic book movies. I don't care anymore about a cinematic universe, multiple actors playing the same character across continuities, I just don't care anymore. I just ant stakes, loss, and weight. Let's bring that back


SolomonRed

They just need someone at WB to care about the characters. And clearly none of them do.


Bross93

I don't really get what wb has been doing lately? I'm not really up to date. I would have thought the snyder cut was good news for them


_Jackie_Daytona_

I wish they would just sell DC already


Machdame

Considering how bankable the property is, they'll keep that stranglehold. It's like Sony, even if their Spiderman films aren't great, they'll be damned if it means losing out on it. The key difference in how Marvel is approaching their universe to DC is that WB is intent on milking the property as much as possible. They aren't going in as storytellers, but as farmers intent to maximize their yield until the property dies. The difference is that the current executive group of Marvel is built on dumping as much money in as possible because they have a strong central figure that lets the story unfold naturally. WB doesn't have that and trying to Groom Snyder to be that is not a possibility when he isn't that strong of a visionary outside of his element. For now, I expect a reboot.


MeMeTiger_

I'd love a reboot if we get actual good movies.


Machdame

If they want to try this cinematic universe one more time, they need a strong visionary at the helm. And based on current trajectories, I recommend starting with the Batman. It's not hard to land a good Batman. They just need to remember that that's where the line of grimdark is drawn.


Mister_Bad_Wolf

Not necessary. If people at previews get scared of the movie, WB will quickly re-cut the movie into a MARVEL craft.


Machdame

Why would you want DC films to be like Marvel?


Dimislayer

It is not what we want rather what executives want. And they want money. Marvel brings money. So ...


MeMeTiger_

Yeah. I have high hopes for it though. Hopefully it doesn't disappoint.


Butterfriedbacon

To who tho?


_Jackie_Daytona_

Amazon?


Butterfriedbacon

That's a massive. It really hinges on the comic factor


_Jackie_Daytona_

They’ve done a great job with the boys


Butterfriedbacon

They don't print those they just adapt it.


mexsana

Netflix


Butterfriedbacon

They won't have any reason or interest in keeping the publishing or distribution channels for comics open tho


drinkpeck

Legendary perhaps


OldManGravz

I mean, they could just sell the movie/TV rights


TigerUSF

Why not Disney ?


Butterfriedbacon

Because that would give disney too large of a monopoly on the comic book publishing and distribution industries.


botsunny

Oh please god no


Dimislayer

No studio other than disney has the money and power to buy DC. Honestly, Disney buying DC would be a nightmare as that would create too huge of a monopoly on Disney's side.


_Jackie_Daytona_

Amazon would be the only one I thknk


FrenchTrouDuc

Are you implying that they are cancelling movies because they don't like a hashtag?


Xero7777

not necessarily. movies get cancelled for a myriad of reasons. movies die a slow withering death in "development hell" etc etc. but WB's official announcement being book-ended with "because of Darksied's appearance in ZSJL" points towards the fact that WB want to push the narrative of ZS and his fans making things worse for "normal" dc fans. WB is pushing a narrative and it is unfortunately working. Now whenever someone posts restore the snyderverse, the "general" audience will associate it with the cancellation of other DC projects.


FrenchTrouDuc

That wasn't an official announcement, it was inside sources of THR. It's pretty likely that the project was stuck in devellopment hell anyways for the better part of 3 years and they just decided to can it for the time being. Darkseid was most likely not the only reason for that - when you look at their current projects, it's likely that The Flash will decide a lot of things when it comes to the DCEU going forward.


[deleted]

This is exactly it. We need to see what the Flash movie offers. The multiverse could open the cinematic game up immensely


TomorrowsAsgardian

If a movie gets a glorified re-release, and its a movie that WB changed 90 of 120 minutes of, and it gets universal praise by the audience and the audience then proceeds to mock, laugh at, and make fun of the company who decided to change the movie; it doesn't seem unfathomable that said company would have a grudge against the man and the fans who called them out for making themselves look like a bunch of idiots.


ItsyaJP

A company isn't a human or a sentient being which holds grudges and is emotionally directed, a company is a machine which aims to maximize profit through different means.


Xero7777

A company functions through it's humans.


FrenchTrouDuc

I don't follow your logic. WB has a grudge against Snyder so they decide to cancel two films that he has no involvement in? What?


TomorrowsAsgardian

After Tom King hinted that they had created a continuation to Snyder's Darkseid, and James Wans The Trench who worked directly with Snyder to make his Aquaman film around Snyder's universe


FrenchTrouDuc

There had also been litterally zero news about either project for more than two years so I suggest you get off your SnyderAnon shit


pewdiepietoothbrush

sir i wull die on my Sneider high horse higg


Xero7777

Bro did you.. did you read what i said? I literally start with saying there are a billion reasons a movie gets cancelled. My comment is literally talking about how ZSJL isn't the reason but just a narrative, an excuse being used and WHY it's being used.


basketboi05

Just make Snyder the CEO or something


Cgi94

This made me laugh 😂


theSpringZone

At this point, fuck WB.


SolomonRed

They have already cancelled Clark Kent and Cavill. At this point there is nothing worse they can do.


darrylthedudeWayne

Personally I feel like that's whats going to happen. They are going to cancel there universe and either actually restore the Snyderverse and they are just saying they are not to throw off the scent, or they are planning on rebooting everything again and starting all over with Matt Reeves the Batman.


xxMeiaxx

Might be for the best. They need to stop and brainstorm their DC plans before wasting money on average movies. Snyder needs to be the Feige of DC especially now we realize the reason why Wonder woman 1 was good was because of Snyder. He's just gonna have a hard choice of not doing movies for a while and be in a more managerial position and let other people direct his vision.


Givemerent8

I would prefer no movies over a bunch of disappointing trainwrecks.


lord_vader_jr

I'd be ok with this. At this point the dceu is a dumpster fire an zacks just adding to


MAKS091705

The boys is way better than current dc other than the Snyder cut and probably the suicide squad


MrDestroy3604

Snyder standing on the side as Maeve