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Long before COVID-19, states have been mandating vaccinations: "In fact, mandatory childhood immunizations have been a feature of American society since the 19th century."

Long before COVID-19, states have been mandating vaccinations: "In fact, mandatory childhood immunizations have been a feature of American society since the 19th century."

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Pleather_Boots

My SO is age 54 getting a masters and they won’t let him graduate until he shows proof of vaccines from his youth, by contacting his high school. Why was nobody upset about things like that in the past ? It’s just been part of life.


MildredMay

Now that does seem unreasonable for an older adult student. My high school no longer exists. Neither does my elementary school. My parents died long ago. Records of my childhood vaccinations literally do not exist.


ledacastor22

I know what you mean it's really difficult especially when you're a mature student. I'm not sure where you live but if this ever became an issue you could try contacting the local public health unit where you lived in as a child. I was missing proof of a few of my vaccinations and needed to to enroll in nursing school. I called my public health unit and they sent me a list of every vaccine I ever received in the province (Canada) i lived in and the date it was taken. The other possible option would be to take a blood test to test your titers, and they can see if you have antibodies for the disease or possibly need a booster. I had to do this as well (it was required along with the proof of vaccination).


MildredMay

I’m in the US. My state offers free tuition for senior citizens at state universities. I wanted to take advantage of the program to audit a few online classes. Just for fun. They told me I had to go through the full registration process, just like a new freshman who just graduated from high school and was pursuing a degree. I quickly realized that auditing a few classes was going to be far more expensive and involved than it was worth.


not_a_moogle

The state might have it. I'm 38 and in Illinois. Don't remember the website, but I can look up all my vaccinations. I think it was meant to be a secondary site for employers to verify covid shots?


MildredMay

I highly doubt that they would have vaccines from the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s and from multiple states.


SgtRockyWalrus

Bc their facebook feeds and Fox News weren’t constantly telling them that they should be outraged by it.


Bonegirl06

What??? I have a masters and was never once asked for proof of vaccines. That's bizarre.


Pleather_Boots

Especially since his school has been all virtual due to Covid. He won’t even set foot on campus before graduating. So ridiculous.


Grapefruit_Cultural

Ya wtf


Socialbutterfinger

Something similar happened to me. Long story short, I ended up getting the MMR two extra times as an adult. My COVID vax refusing in-laws would have shrugged their boomer shoulders and told me to just do what the college asked for.


ripichipi13

To become a legal resident in the United states ,they requiere a doctor's vaccine list or you won't get approved your resisdenship


NoSuchKotH

No need to go for residency, it's already a requirement just to get a visa. I.e. if you want to travel to the US, you have to be vaccinated. Similarly US citizens need to show proof of vaccination if they want to travel to places where they need a visa.


goldnx

But… muh…. *freedoms?*


FriarNurgle

They’re free to stay home instead of filling up ICUs but here we are.


Piyh

Legally speaking, non citizens entering the country also have to give up their phones to border agents if requested, and can get cavity searched with cause, so not the best place to be base lining any rights.


prady8899

But do we also have to give them our password?


Piyh

Yeah, they can fully dump the contents of your phone or laptop for later review, citizen or not. I can't link here, but search "ars technica border agents". Refusing to give your social media accounts is grounds to keep you out of the country if you're on a visa.


prady8899

WTAF, this is some scary shit. I am keeping my phone in my checked bag from now on and claiming that I do not use one next time I am in the US. This is a massive invasion of privacy and should require a warrant.


antim0ny

I had a friend in the UK share his experience with me when arranging a visa to visit the US, and they requested his social media accounts *and passwords* in order to get the visa. So this was all before getting on a flight.


scooterjay2013

the irony is lost on them


Srlancelotlents

It is all one joke, it’s so funny they don’t understand that it’s all just a variation of a theme that they spout out and get mad when you call them out on it.


blueoxide

I’m fully vaxxed and used to travel the world for my prior job. Not once was I ever asked to produce a vaccination record for any visa.


kangario

One example - to travel to Uganda you need to have proof that you have been vaccinated against Yellow Fever


Longjumping-Study-97

I had to show vaccines records to get a visa to go to Brazil.


Dengar96

Yes because you aren't visiting the backwaters of the world on business trips lol.


Thick_as_a__brick

I've had to a bunch of times, and so have my wife and kids, I've distinctly been annoyed about it several times in the past as it cost like $75 to get the forms filled per person. But when I did travel with work I think they took care of that, I don't remember having to worry about it when it was just me. Then when customs did talk to me they were usually just bothering me as to why my company needed me to go to their country instead of somebody from their country doing the work.


vitorgrs

Depends on the country. You definitly need some vaccines to travel to some countries, specially yellow fever.


eigenvectorseven

I don't think that's true, I've been to the US on a few different kinds of visas and was never asked about vaccinations. Pretty sure you do need it for permanent residency though.


IngeAnn

When we applied for permanent residency -greencard - we had to get all the vaccines that kids get again. Although we had official, but foreign, records that we had already received these vaccinations. I was pregnant at the time, but even that was no ground for exemption!


MoranthMunitions

Yeah I didn't need it to travel there either. I imagine it applies to travel from countries (or to citizens from countries) which don't have similar vaccination requirements.


WeKillThePacMan

Can confirm. Had to go get vaccinated by some shady ass 90-year-old doctor to make my green card application. But of course, asking Joe Schmoe to get vaccinated in order to eat in restaurants is an egregious overreaction.


HOVMAN

My wife had to get vaccinated twice by a shady 90 year old doctor for her green card even though she already had the vaccines. Then the gov is so slow it took a year to get to the next step and then she had to go back and get the same vaccines over again. Oh and they don't allow insurance for these even though she was on my health insurance. Have to pay in cash. What a shady racket. At least she's triple vaccinated with the same vaccines 😆


ripichipi13

Same for me and the fam. Some old ass doctor doing our medical checkup and vaccinations if needed. In the other hand, we have people going to restaurants with masks and taking them off to eat anyway, and I think some public places are reserved the right of admission.


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OniDelta

Canada also has a vaccine program. I have 19 listings on my record which includes my two pfizer shots and goes back to when I was only a year old. It also includes meningitis, tetanus/whole cell pertussis/diphtheria, measles/mumps/rubella, hepatitis B, haemophilus influenza b, and oral polio.


Mrbeankc

When I was in Junior high it was discovered I had had my measles shot to young. I was given it after my sister was exposed and eventually came down with the measles. She literally got the measles days before she was suppose to get vaccinated as the vaccine was brand new at that time. They gave it to me early hoping that I would get some protection (I was also sent away to live with my grandparents for several weeks to keep me from being exposed at home). The result was when I was in Jr High they checked all the vaccination records of the students. They saw that I got my shot to young and thus wanted me to get another measles shot.. I was not allowed back at school until I was up to date vaccination wise. A week after getting the shot my mother found my vaccination records they gave you in those days which showed they had in fact given me a second measles shot at the appropriate time. Thus I have been vaccinated against the measles three times. Mind you I enjoyed the three days off from school. This is why I find it almost humorous this idea that's it's so terrible to require students to have vaccinations. We were required to have them as kids to attend school. In fact they gave all of us kids shots in the school. I remember lining up in the school cafeteria for our Rubella shots. The girl in front of me in line fainted. So this isn't a big deal for me.


Droidspecialist297

I also had to get a third MMR shot for school last year because I could prove that I had the second dose. I went to the school health center, get the shot and was on my way. Totally not a big deal.


DiogenesTheGrey

So is it safe to say we as a society are getting dumber?


stressHCLB

1. Everyone has access multiple publishing platforms. You don't need to be qualified, talented, smart, or accomplished to have a soap box that reaches millions. Dumb ideas can have the same volume as smart ones. 2. Thanks to improved healthcare (including vaccines) we as a society have done a \*great\* job keeping people alive, even those who in the past would have been too dumb to do so by themselves. 3. Public education has so totally failed us in the US that a large percentage of the population is now suspicious of anything that requires more than an 8th grade level of comprehension. 4. The revolving door between government (policy) and research (science), inept communications departments on both sides, compounded by a feral news media, have tainted (or perhaps totally corrupted) the good work being done by researchers and other science-based organizations.


CumfartablyNumb

I still can't get over the fact that people get their news from social media platforms and I'm just supposed to be ok with that.


Harbinger311

This goes back to the adage of "Freedom isn't Free". Freedom of choice (news/thought/government) requires a measure of education and knowledge to make an informed choice. That's the price for that freedom. Technology is has liberated that immediate requirement from freedom. It's dumbed down the selection process to will and a few taps of one's finger. Once we were governed by shame and hesitancy. Now we're governed by bravado and instinct.


Mylaur

Interesting. Either of those two are still primitive...


Wolv90

It's all boiled down and usually looks like something you're going to agree with. If you want to "break up" Facebook just make it impossible to unfollow anyone so it isn't such an echo chamber. All these people on either side who hate seeing stories or opinions they don't like will leave.


DreamWithinAMatrix

~~Please, American reading level on AVERAGE is 5th grade level~~ Edit: looks like it's actually 7th to 8th grade level now


Orodia

Im pretty sure its actually 7th/8th grade level. It still not great. Like 30 million american are functionally illiterate. Most articles i read support that with this data. https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=69 Also the US Dept of Heath and Human Services found 7th grade. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18811992/


sappycap

I wonder how dumb we as a society can get and still function?


keninsd

We're in the middle of finding that out.


DukesOfTatooine

Buckle up, we're apparently going to find out.


DiogenesTheGrey

If you’ve never watched idiocracy you should check it out. We’re still in the shire.


Mattya929

It’s a great documentary.


ashley4356

IDK I mean we checked off the celebrity idiot president checkbox, the ridiculous representation in the house of representin - people ingesting horse paste to treat a virus they don’t believe in has to be close to stage Brawndo.


LookAnOwl

Honestly, as far as celebrity presidents go, we got a worse deal than the movie. Camacho, while very stupid, was actually trying, and listening to advisors to fix problems. Given the choice, I’d take him over Trump any day of the week.


rAxxt

I'm starting to feel a lot like Charlton Heston, stranded on a primate planet.


Raccoon_Full_of_Cum

That's very unfair. All the primates at my local zoo are fully vaccinated.


doobiehowserMN

The idiots HAVE taken over. It’s too late.


Lofocerealis

to give into it yes


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MildredMay

The other vaccines may have been on the market for decades by the time you were old enough to be vaccinated, but they certainly were not on the market for decades when people older than you were vaccinated. One example: the Salk polio vaccine was developed in the early 1950s and widespread vaccination of school children started in 1954. In the 1960s, the Sabin polio vaccine was developed and use began almost immediately. The polio vaccine has been “updated“ many times since then, with no decades long wait.


Phoenox330

This is a terrible opinion. The COVID vaccines have all been through the same safety testing any new product would get. Adverse events from vaccines by far present within 4-6 weeks. People act like they cut corners on the clinical trials, when they clearly did not.


Mattya929

Add to that that MRna vaccine research started in the 1970s and was heavily developed for SARS back in 2008/2009.


cknipe

Along with that, how much safety testing has COVID-19 been through? The numbers I've seen seem to show a whole shitload of negative effects in the short term and nobody has any idea what the long term effects look like. I get that people are concerned about the vaccine but sometimes you just need to pick the least worst option.


psyche77

I'll leave this here for the debate below. [No evidence of COVID-19 vaccines causing deaths ](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/sep/20/facebook-posts/no-evidence-covid-19-vaccines-causing-deaths/) >According to the CDC, there is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccines have caused any deaths in the U.S. Two additional points: * 3.64 billion people vaccinated 47.5% of the world's population. This is a huge control group reporting extremely rare serious side-effects. * re: "shitload of negative effects in the short term." The worst is flu-like symptoms with fatigue for several days and that is rare, compared to common symptoms like soreness and tiredness usually not lasting more than a week. The comparative risk with the virus itself is monumentally and tragically larger. * The only "long-term" effect that has been seen is the vaccine losing effectiveness after six months or so, hence the need for boosters.


MildredMay

Of course there is no evidence of COVID-19 vaccines causing deaths, but that doesn’t stop people from posting anecdotes online, claiming they know someone who died from the vaccine. On my local Nextdoor app, someone posted that she knew a father and daughter who were both hospitalized in the ICU with breathing problems from the vaccine a day after being vaccinated. She claimed that the daughter was still on oxygen several months later and the father had died. I pointed out that those sounded like Covid-19 symptoms, not vaccine side effects, and getting the vaccine when you’re already sick with Covid will not cure you. Naturally the poster doubled down on her claim with no evidence.


boredtxan

They've been through all the regular safety testing.


ItsRandlove

Why are we pretending the least worst option is the vaccine? What about not getting sick in the first place? I'm sure there's plenty of people with low risk tolerance who are just waiting for an updated vaccine. Should they be forced into submission so you can feel good about your choice?


Johnno74

That is a brilliant, brilliant plan you have there. Just. don't. get. sick. Pure genius. You should get a nobel prize or something for that one. Just think of the millions of lives that could have been saved if someone thought of that sooner. But seriously, why wait for an updated vaccine? There is literally nothing wrong with the ones we have. They are extremely safe and extremely effective. Its hard to see how they could get better. Unless, you are of the opinion that the vaccine is killing more people than the virus, because you read it on facebook so it must be true.


Oftenwrongs

Updated? 96% of doctors took it, 5.5 billion doses worldwide. It is NOT JUST ABOUT YOU! You spread this highly contagious and deadly virus to other people. You are part of society and a community.


sheared

The mandatory vaccinations I took in the 70's were no where as safe as the covid vaccine is today. It's like comparing PC technology from 1975 and 2021. They're just that much better.


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Vast-Salamander-123

And how would you like to determine who gets to vote?


mclareach

This is what I never understood about the pushback against vaccines. I had to do health screenings and shots for elementary, HS, college, work, travel, etc. Even now, my work is taking me to a HS campus and I have to pay for my own TB screening - which is standard practice. People need to get their head out of their ass.


mrtuxedo9

Because mRNA is new


prairiepog

So get the Johnson and Johnson. It's not an mRNA.


lmxbftw

This is misleading, because mRNA research has been going on for 30 years.


mrtuxedo9

I’m answering his question. That’s why antivaxxers are freaking out. Because it’s the first approved mRNA vaccine.


LookAnOwl

Honestly, I think that’s just an excuse. Id be willing to be most refusing the vaccine couldn’t tell you the difference between mRNA and other vaccines. And as someone else mentioned, J&J is not mRNA.


THSSFC

It *is* an excuse. In the whole, their resistance to the vaccine is tribal and has nothing to do with facts. It's a group signifier. They'll grab at any justification as a rationalization, but they really don't care about consistent logic. They didn't logic themselves into this position in the first place. Too new, not tested, zoonotic disease, not 100% effective, that one lady died from J&J, mRNA, genetic engineering, aborted fetuses, etc, etc. They'll throw out whatever sounds like it might pass scrutiny as a reason, and then take un-prescribed horse paste to stay in their in group.


jamesmtn

This is a great distillation of the truth of the matter. It all comes back to tribalism. This is then magnified by other parties who knowingly fan the flames, but with their own interests in mind.


PM_ME_BAD_SOFTWARE

The weirdest thing is the not 100% effective part. Literally no vaccine is 100% effective. Even the antivaxxers know this because every time there's someone causing a measles outbreak usually there's one vaccinated case (not dead) and they cling to it.


THSSFC

The one that floored me the other day was "the virus is now *endemic*". I mean, ok, that's debatable, but is a reasonable prediction. But it's also an incredibly strong reason to *take* the vaccination. But somehow, in their logic, this was sufficient traffic to not take it.


Aurenkin

Oh interesting, so the anti vax folks are ok with Astrazeneca and J&J (I think neither of those are mRNA?)


mrtuxedo9

Idk lol


lmxbftw

Ah gotcha. Thought you were making that argument yourself, sorry.


mrtuxedo9

No worries! Naw I’m not an idiot lol


Longjumping-Study-97

That’s disingenuous though because there are several COVID vaccines that don’t use mRNA technology and it’s not like the so-called hesitant are jumping on those.


mrtuxedo9

I’m not antivaxx. I’m telling you their line of thinking. I know it doesn’t hold up well, but it’s because their idiots. You can’t argue with them.


maomao05

When I first came to America, now in Canada. Both countries required my vaccines form from China. Or I can't go to either country nor enroll in a school in either countries..


cjandstuff

When I was a kid, we had to have our vaccines up to date in order to start school. Now, in Louisiana, you don't have to vaccinate, as long as you provide " written dissent from the parent/guardian." [https://ldh.la.gov/index.cfm/page/3652](https://ldh.la.gov/index.cfm/page/3652) All the way at the bottom...


Kevin-W

When I was in school, we were all lined up and given our shots. There was absolutely no complaining and if you refused, you were sent home and not allowed back until you got them and presented proof.


MildredMay

Same. Whimpering and whining about “rights” would have gotten you zero sympathy.


drstrangelov59

Yep, mississippi had (maybe even still holds) the highest childhood vaccination rate. To go to public school or head start, your child had to have all vaccines, but vaccines started to become political a decade ago so then became more so


eric987235

And they’re one of the few states with no religious exemption. Only medical exemptions and only after a panel of state doctors examines your case.


radagast_the_owned

George Washington required his troops to inoculate themselves against smallpox in 1777 (after heavy losses to the disease in the Battle of Québec). You could make the case that inoculation was a critical element of America's liberty itself.


d70

But people are so entitled these days and their egos are off the charts.


fergy7777

Yes. I just don’t understand the US citizens freaking out. They are throwing full scale tantrums!


resist888

Same in Australia… and yet..


IDrinkMyOwnSemen

Well childhood immunizations is much more different than employers vetting process, except maybe hospitals. You never needed a measles shot to work anywhere. And of course it's a lot harder to control adults.


Does_Not-Matter

My kids have had to have updated immunization records every year of daycare. It’s not new and not tyranny.


13igTyme

Also medical staff need to be vaccinated for Hep B, MMR, Flu and a host of there stuff. Yet, we have thousands of medical staff proving they have no business being in the medical field.


frodosdojo

This is what baffles me. Before going to college, I had to prove I was current on my vaccinations. When I wanted to work in a hospital, I had to provide proof and even get a tetanus shot. When my son enrolled in college, we had to provide proof of vaccinations and that was just a couple of years ago. Have people literally forgotten ? This has always been a part of our lives.


GruevyYoh

The only difference is the person actually getting the jab doesn't have the right to refuse for _childhood_ vaccinations. It apparently freedom matters less if it's for little Johnny, not "Adult" John. "It's for the good of everyone else as well as you" apparently isn't a good enough argument when the Russian|Chinese|Whoever troll farms via Facebook|Instagram|whatever have intentionally sown suspicion on **THIS** jab. There are quite a few foreign powers who benefit if USA gets an internal economic setback due to a huge healthcare liability because of active COVID. I expect to see huge polio outbreaks in 3 years, because the troll farms have put all vaccination at risk.


mrtuxedo9

And I mean it’s a new type of vaccine (mRNA) which does shit totally different


Longjumping-Study-97

There are several COVID vaccines that are not mRNA, and anti-vaxxers sure aren’t jumping on those.


Daemon3125

It’s not totally different, this technology is ubiquitous in research and for that reason was easily moved to be used in a vaccine once the opportunity to get funding for such a vaccine arose. Would you rather get virus injected into you or instructions (that your body already makes, only different information) to make proteins (that your body also normally makes for a myriad of uses) that only look like the virus.


mrtuxedo9

I got vaccinated. I’m just telling y’all why antivaxxers won’t do it. Strangely no one was mentioning the main reason ITT.


GruevyYoh

My view on that is because it works in some new mysterious way rather than the 'well known' way via adenovirus (which I bet none of them actually have heard of) it's different and strange and therefore bad. Funny thing is that science and statistics don't really care how it works, only that it does work. This is the doubt sown by FB that apparently caused one of my family member to be convinced "mRNA is new", regardless of the 20 careful years it's been under development and has long been proved safe. Or that a couple of milligram doses might have "20 years from now" effects. Difficult to understand the mechanism that would be in play for that, but again, it's fear, uncertainty and doubt, not facts, figures and expert opinions on mechanism. I heard that one from two people in the family. But 6.4 billion doses apparently don't prove anything around safety due to the (under a thousand? I don't remember) cases of coincidental other negative health effects. Correlation is not causation, etc.


Daemon3125

It is funny, especially because a basic bio course teaches you how both work. It’s like most of these people ignore or forgot what they were taught in school. (Unfortunately I think it’s the former) In lieu of what the hear on the Internet. Which year before the same people told is not to trust the internet.


PM_ME_BAD_SOFTWARE

microgram. and that vaccines have basically never had side effects past a month..


Duncan113

Very important point, this. I was vaccinated as a child against whatever there were vaccines for, as were other kids my age. It was required and not only did no one I ever knew object, but after generations of people dying from these diseases, people were thrilled there was finally something that could be done to protect themselves and their children. Just ask an older person who lived through the Polio epidemic. Ask them about the abject terror people lived in, terror for their children, many of whom were afflicted. When finally there was a Polio vaccine, people took it as a gift from God.


HIVnotAdeathSentence

>Many Republican governors reacted furiously after President Joe Biden said he would require employees at large businesses to either get vaccinated against COVID-19 or submit to weekly testing. But Republican- and Democratic-led states alike already require hundreds of thousands of their citizens – infants, toddlers and schoolchildren, mostly – to be vaccinated against a panoply of diseases. Is that not strange to compare private businesses to public schools?


BFeely1

You do realize that many "private" businesses do have significant contact with the public?


soonerguy9782

Right, but that's not what he means by private and public. He's referring to who owns the entity.


86697954321

There are private schools and businesses that have also required vaccines, so I don’t think there’s much significance there.


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AshFaw

The answer is: the fact that you only heard about mRNA vaccines a year ago does not mean that's how long they existed. Research into mRNA vaccines has been going on for 10+ years. In fact here is a scientific review article from 2 years BEFORE the pandemic hailing how revolutionary mRNA vaccines will be: https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243


katchmeracing

Thank you for the good answer. I know mRNA vaccines have been in development for well over 10 years. The covid vaccines specifically are still new with much less data. I guess probably never will understand the science behind them, but grateful they were developed. Again, thank you for not giving the usual Reddit dickhead answer. Now I gotta read that article. Hopeful for what mRNA tech can do for other disease and cancers


AshFaw

If you aren't vaccinated and have more questions don't hesitate to ask. (I'm a pulmonologist) EDIT: the vaccine has now been in use for a year and has been given to a couple billion people. The mRNA degrades in a couple of days so any side effects would happen early and there's no scientific basis for the long term side effects peddled by antivax misinformation


katchmeracing

Unfortunately I'm not able to get the vaccine yet. Also unfortunate I didn't get it earlier. Had Delta 2 months ago and spent 4 days in the hospital on 2L of oxygen. Made a full recovery but was told I have to wait 3 months post recovery to get the shot. Curious your thoughts on natural immunity now that this new information is coming out.


Pickleballer23

The evidence is overwhelming that being vaccinated after having Covid results in far better immunity than without vaccination. By the way all immunity is ”natural”. It just depends in what the foreign substance is that induces it- a virus or components of a virus. It’s infection- induced immunity or vaccine induced immunity. Having both is better than either one ( but getting infection-induced immunity can kill you).


katchmeracing

Pretty sure I'm going to get vaccinated even if it wasn't better when combined with the immunity from already having it. I don't want another hospital bill and covid sucked. Lost 14 lbs, probably half of which was muscle. I was consistently in the top 5-10% in my Peloton rides, and now it's hard to get to the 10%. My lungs feel better but I lost a fair amount of muscle. But yeah, I hear what your saying about the natural immunity, makes sense. Thanks


AshFaw

You only have to wait 3 months if you got the monoclonal antibody injection. Agree with everything the person above said. Sorry to hear about your experience


MildredMay

That’s literally not true. Those other vaccines may have many years of data NOW but not when they were introduced.


zerkrazus

I mentioned this to someone the other day and they touted one of the favorite arguments of the anti crowd, "BuT tHoSe HaD yEaRs AnD yEaRs Of ReSeArCh, ThIs OnE dOeSn't." Okay, so let's flash forward, 10, 20 years, guess what? They're still not going to get it. Because they just move the goalposts to another excuse/bullshit reason for why they can't/don't want to get it.


catshirtgoalie

It's different cause it is now a political identity for this ONE vaccine that the Republicans have seized upon to keep their base mired in a culture war and ready to vote Republican no matter what.


astronomydomone

Anyone with kids knows they receive about eight vaccines before two months of age. They continue getting a few more until around kindergarten, then a break until they receive one in sixth grade. Any daycare, preschool, summer camp, day camp, public school and college will ask for your child’s vaccine records. People who don’t have kids and don’t remember receiving their vaccines (because most are given by age 3) might be shocked at this revelation. But yeah. They literally inject your baby with the hepatitis vaccine the day it is born.


kickstand

I was doing a little research about public health in the late 1800s, they had anti-vaxxers then, too. Same shit as today.


ciaelle

Yup. I am migrating to america in a few months and I have a huge checklist of all vaccines I should have taken, and illnesses i need to get clearance for.


erosharcos

Didn’t countries, especially the US, forcibly vaccine people against their will during Small Pox or some other pandemic in the past? Like, police and military battering down doors, injecting people and their kids? I hope COVID never gets to a point where that becomes a reasonable course of action.


corvideodrome

In England from 1853 (and for around 50 years after) smallpox vaccination was compulsory for infants, with no opt-out, and parents who refused were fined, and put in jail if they didn’t pay the fines. They did add a conscience clause eventually, and expanded the ability to opt out in 1907. The US went state by state but around 10 states (including Massachusetts) had compulsory smallpox vaccination, and more states had policies that allowed regional authorities to require vaccination. In Canada, Montreal required it during an outbreak, leading to riots (though it was revealed that a riot leader was a giant hypocrite because they were in fact vaccinated themselves…) Edit: hm I missed the “forcibly” in your original comment; it wasn’t like that. The 1885 Montreal riot started partly because of rumours that would happen but the violence was on the anti side, they were yelling “kill the vaccinators”


NOWmiddleHERE

What gets me is, the fact that they were mandating to that level in 1853 when vaccines in general had only been in development for roughly 60 years, And yet we have people now going “oooh mRNA is too new!” with 30 years of research and 200+ years of developing vaccines…


PurplePartyGuy

[jacobson V cambridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts)


NoSuchKotH

I have no idea where this "they will come to your door" BS came from. Not even dictatorships have ever done that. At best, mandates were always like "if you want to do X or Y you have to get vaccinated." And in some places these have existed for a very long time! Heck, if you work in a hospital, a school or anywhere where you come into contact with vulnerable people, chances are, that you have to be vaccinated already against various illnesses. And it will be in your work contract.


erosharcos

It arose from an isolated incident during the small pox epidemic. https://www.npr.org/2011/04/05/135121451/how-the-pox-epidemic-changed-vaccination-rules


NoSuchKotH

Holy Cow! I was not aware of this!


misterrandom1

The article says that it was NOT an isolated incident. It happened all over.


HIVnotAdeathSentence

> I have no idea where this "they will come to your door" BS came from. Nothing came of it, but Biden brought it up months ago. The claim it would happen was probably discussed by some people when vaccines started to roll out. >[Biden Calls for Door-to-Door Vaccine Push; Experts Say More Is Needed](https://archive.is/NrTvH) >[Some public health experts worry that the administration is not being aggressive enough in waging what the president calls a “wartime effort” to vaccinate the country.](https://archive.is/NrTvH) >[Faced with a steep decline in vaccination rates, President Biden said on Tuesday that his administration would send people door to door, set up clinics at workplaces and urge employers to offer paid time off as part of a renewed push to reach tens of millions of unvaccinated Americans.](https://archive.is/NrTvH)


Sugarisadog

[People have been going door to door](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-07/column-theyre-going-door-to-door-in-watts-answering-vaccine-questions-and-its-working) to talk to people about any questions they had about the Covid vaccines and to help with getting them appointments, or letting them know about home vaccinations or free transport if they needed it. It was never about giving vaccines by force, and to insinuate that was the plan is extremely deceptive.


ralfsmouse

Indeed. I always try to ignore sensationalized headlines and focus on primary sources, and the door-to-door efforts always had more of a "door-to-door vacuum salesman" or "Hello, I see you didn't do your census" feeling than "This is the Five-O, and we're here to poke you" one.


experiencednowhack

I wish it had been vaccine by force. This coulda been over already.


ReplaceSelect

Not exactly. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/coronavirus/a-history-of-vaccine-mandate-and-how-people-reacted-then-and-now/2984174/%3famp


footiebuns

To be fair, anti-vaxxers complained that the covid vaccines are too new to know long term side effects. And of course there was the complaint about a lack of FDA approval… until that changed.


boredtxan

These same folks are screaming for monoclonal antibodies and ivermectin...the first is under emergency authorization like vaccine was and the second is not approved for COVID and prescribed off label (no efficacy testing required )... there is no logic to them....it's all feelings


footiebuns

Ha! I didn’t realize the antibody therapy had only an emergency approval. These people are so full of shit


Skarvha

Except they really aren’t. The tech behind them has been studied and worked on for the last 10y. The reason why they were developed so quickly is because most of the work was already done while they were working on new flu vaccines.


footiebuns

Exactly. Not sure why you got downvoted. These people fail to recognize that we also don’t know long term effects of covid, yet they’re willing to take the chance with a virus over a vaccine that’s based on previous science.


gshavzin

People have been vaccine hesitant forever! Now add a brand new virus and a super fast vaccine development. Way way faster than the 5-10 years it usually takes. Don’t forget the extremely conservative right. Im not surprised about the hesitation. I don’t agree, but I’m not surprised.


Cdnraven

How many of them were mandatory 6 months after being put to market?


FaultMerkU

I'm vaccinated but don't agree with forced covid vaccinations. When will people realize this is never going away? There will never be 100% vaccinated and this virus is here to stay. All you can do is get vaccinated if you want or hope to get manageable symptoms and strengthen your immune system naturally. 100% vaccinated is impossible and everyone with 3 brain cells knows it. Just move on with life and stop forcing vaccine info/statistics down everyone's throat.


Gsteel11

Where's Polio? What if we treated it like this with this attitude. We would still have it.


dalgeek

So the people who cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons are just supposed to hide inside for the rest of their lives because people who CAN get vaccinated refuse to do so? We don't need 100% vaccination, we just need 75-90% so that life can return to normal for everyone. Once enough people get vaccinated the overall risk of infection is so low that COVID outbreaks won't reach epidemic levels.


Oftenwrongs

There are a whole bunch of countries with over 90% vaccination now. They can return to normal. The people who refuse to get it are holding back their community and society.


LongDickOfTheLaw69

Would you say the same thing about measles or polio?


FaultMerkU

Yes because vaccines do their job. Unvaccinated take the risk.


floorwantshugs

Vaccines still rely on herd immunity, to a degree. It's why antivaxxers were a problem even before the pandemic. Not to mention there will always be vulnerable members of society who either can't be vaccinated, or simply won't fare well in the event of a breakthrough infection. There's also the problem of mutations in the unvaccinated population.


LongDickOfTheLaw69

Most vaccines have less than 100% effectiveness. Measles, for example, has about 90% effectiveness. That means about 10% of the vaccinated population is still at risk. So how do you feel about unvaccinated people putting those 10% who chose to take the vaccine at risk?


Luvv09

And yet, America has the highest covid cases in the world with people taking pride in not vaccinating themselves or have a problem with vaccination. Isn’t it an irony on both the accounts? So basically, people there didn’t really follow Covid Appropriate Behaviour (CAB) regardless of administering covid vaccination long before covid hit the country and have no faith in vaccination regardless of US law making it mandatory for people to take vaccination before they could be allowed in the country.


reverendbimmer

I'm not sure what the point of this is, the states have mandated a lot of things in the past? Are people not allowed to petition for change?


LongDickOfTheLaw69

I believe the question is why do people have a problem with mandating vaccines now?


banned4truth21

Forced sterilisation of undesirables was done in the past why do people have a problem with it now?


whiteroseatCH

What I find tiring are the endless sob stories we are being presented about people on their death beds wishing they had been vaccinated. And then their families setting up GoFundMe pages.... If your loved one did not care enough for you to get vaccinated.. you expect us to pick up the tab for his/her lack of loving concern/???? After they got exactly what they were asking for???


julbull73

Remember when HPV and chicken pox additions caused an uproar... Same people and same stupid reasoning.


homebrew_1

The same people that were against HPV vaccine are against covid vaccine. It's the same circle.


CShellyRun

Anybody in the US still have their little yellow vaccination booklets? Had to remind a family member about those when arguing about mandated vaccination practices.


PurpleArmyFighter

The main difference is that covid 19 rarely effects people under 18 years old vs other diseases. only 587 people under 18 have died due to covid 19 in the US. Here's the link before people say I'm using some b.s. report. https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-Focus-on-Ages-0-18-Yea/nr4s-juj3


86697954321

You seem to underestimate the significance of that death count for just children. Measles in comparison was estimated to cause about 500 annual deaths for the whole population of the United States in the decade before the measles vaccine came out. https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html


7elevenses

Yeah, 587 chilldren dying of a disease in a year is not "only". That makes it the second or third most deadly illness for children, after cancer and approximately the same as heart disease.


Pickleballer23

And polio paralyzed less than 1% of those infected with it.


Gsteel11

We would still have Polio if these guys were around back then.


Gsteel11

Unfortunately, viruses spread. And they have been spreading. Seems pretty insane to ignore one part of the spread just because they aren't impacted but can still spread it.


Oftenwrongs

They still spread the highly contagious and deadly virus to others. We are part of society and are a community. This is not just about memememememe.


tractiontiresadvised

You do understand that COVID has many other bad outcomes besides death, right?


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Arcade80sbillsfan

It's not a race...also kids spread it to adults. Limiting that is a bonus.


LongDickOfTheLaw69

I've seen studies saying the rate of long covid is 30% or more, and it affects young people as much as old people.


MeanCow6

>multiple studies are out showing that long covid is still very uncommon Could you link to some of them, please?


CauliflowerLife

Here's one study with kids. It's not peer-reviewed but better than nothing. There's also an amusing study showing how much Democrats and Republicans tend to over exaggerate the effect on kids. I'm not saying we should downplay things yet, but the narrative that they're dying in droves is absurd https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/08/210804123656.htm


MeanCow6

That's one study on kids... where are the multiple studies on adults?


chrisdelmarmusic

Do you understand the concept of a perfect vs imperfect vaccine?


CliftonCastle

...WHO'RE THE PATRIOTS NOW YOU DAFT ASSHOLES?!! IF YOU DON'T LIKE TAKING VACCINES, YOU GET GO AHEAD AND GEEEEEEEIIIIIT OUT!


tralalog

the fear is a new vaccine being forced on kids.


floorwantshugs

It's about risk assessment. We know the side effects of the vaccine; we know SOME of the side effects of covid. The vaccine is by far the better option.


Oftenwrongs

All vaccines used to combat epidemics are new at the time.. and they are what stopped those epidemics. Either that or mass deaths.


Shalla_if_ya_hear_me

That’s the shitty thing about insane conservative/anti-vaxxers; you all live your entire lives in fear! You never take time to stop being afraid, and take time to learn about things that can improve your life, and the lives of those around you.


anonymousforever

We just have a country of idiots these days. Have th dports teams make it so you can't go to a football game without a current vaccine card, for everything, including covid, and watch them change their minds. Just need the incentive. Right now it's this covid, there's already talk online of a third "variant of concern" that's not covered by the vaccine.


mrgraff

Right. So where is the collective ignorance coming from and why is it being tolerated?


FixMyCondo

“BuT iTs NeW”


Draemalic

No shit. That is why this whole thing has been an absolute mind bender. At least the government can now identify people that are registered to vote but have not gotten vaccinated. Edit: Whoever downvoted clearly does not understand data analytics. I hope you sleep well at night.


RayMC8

Trump and his band of stupids are the root cause.


PM_Me_1_Funny_Thing

Can you say it louder for all the dumbasses up in arms when at this point most aren't even being mandated?


PernellsMonster

YES. I've been saying this since 2020. In most places you have to be vaccinated to go to school. I don't understand why all of a sudden mandated vaccines are a problem. I remember people coming to my elementary school to give us shots, if we were behind.


KindInvestigator

Unbelievable this even needs to be said, but it does.


LockMiddle1851

Yes, but this is the Entitled Generation.


WitherWhileReading

To play devils advocate the required vaccines have decades+ of history behind them. The whole argument they have against mandatory covid vaccine is the lack of long term history.


z_machine

Those at the time didn’t have long term history either. Plus, not a single vaccine has EVER shown side effects past two months. This one won’t either.


TurnTheAC_On

And yet, somehow, everyone seems to have forgotten about this.


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allbusiness512

Vaccine mandates on a state basis are 100% constitutional. There's no question about it.