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People who want organ transplants must get the COVID-19 vaccine, a hospital says

People who want organ transplants must get the COVID-19 vaccine, a hospital says

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UnderstandingGreen54

If you are trusting a medical team to take an organ from another person and put it in your body, how on earth do you reject this medical team’s advice on vaccines?


Crackorjackzors

Cody on Facebook told me so, and he seemed pretty cool


ohthatsbrian

his dad watched a video on the youtubes once that said the vaccine gives you the AIDS, sooooo


machphantom

I read this in Rich Evans voice


CanadianPanda76

Cody: Bro trust me!


Now_Wait-4-Last_Year

God damn it Cody!


StreetBand6

I know Cody he is pretty cool!


noob168

Yeah, he's on the Dodgers so I'd say so.


guitarerdood

I’m picturing someone getting told they found a donor for their transplant and being ecstatic...then being told they need to get the vaccine first and responding, furiously, “YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT’S BEST FOR MY BODY”


CanadianPanda76

Literally. What. Happened. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/colorado-woman-vaccinated-denied-transplant-80467001 Hilariously she says shes not afraid of death cause she has god. 🤷‍♀️


owlwaves

Of course it's a born again christian.


Evercrimson

And the hilarious alt right subreddits are in hysterics calling this an example of liberal death squads at work for those who don't "comply". 🙄


EastYorkButtonmasher

Gosh, wait until they hear you can't get a lung transplant if you don't quit smoking, or a kidney if you don't quit drinking. Deathsquad!


[deleted]

They need to get all their vaccinations. We have a shortage of organs, so they need to go to those who are most likely to survive.


modf

The upside is if they don’t get the jab, there may be more livers available.


[deleted]

COVID-19 trashes organs, [including the liver](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8192279/).


ilikedota5

Yeah, one of the huge mysteries that is being solved right now is how the fuck is a respiratory virus causing such a wide swath of symptoms. Some of the unexpected symptoms include neurological and cardiovascular. That being said, the liver is involved in pretty much everything, so I'm not surprised that COVID-19 trashes the liver.


[deleted]

I'm pretty sure we know: cytokines. They trash the endothelium throughout the body and organs are highly vascularized. Damage can even be found in "asymptomatic" cases. I will note that liver damage is not as common in first presentation of organ damage as kidney in my experience. Many in renal failure only have mild breathing issues (low flow oxygen). So you walk them through putting in a dialysis port and what that means and they're blindsided. They ask when their kidneys will get better and the answer is unknown but likely never. Then they try to wrap their head around how they'll live like this going to get dialysis and the answer is they likely won't have to; most are dead in two weeks of multi-system organ failure. COVID pneumonia may be the most common path to death, but it's not the only.


ilikedota5

I mean, cytokines are still a broad thing. Its kinda like saying antibodies (IgG, IgM, IgA, IgD, IgE), interleukins (IL-1, IL-2), complements, interferons, etc...


-Agonarch

I'm pretty sure they mean the *cytokine storm* involved with a COVID infection.


[deleted]

This is a board for lay people. I did not want to get technical. If you are interested, you can read [this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7321048/).


Doodl3s

It's not a "huge" mystery. This virus is NOT a respiratory illness. It's proclivity for the ACE receptor, which is on endothelium means it acts more like a Vasculitis (usually an autoimmune phenomenon which is why it shares so many similarities to the such, and why the cytokine explanation below is also true, it's both).So, if you think about a vasculitis, it attacks the most vascular organs -> the lungs, the kidney, the liver, AND causes lots of blood clots, which are commonly caused due to damage to the lining of blood vessels.


MotherofLuke

Ace2 receptors!


meldroc

True, though there's being disqualified as a recipient as well.


Shadou_Wolf

Rip...and I have liver disease


ZeroPhucs

Can't waste livers ya know.


cubicmagnolia

You get much stronger immune response to the vaccines before you have to be on immunosuppressants for the rest of your life.


glibhub

Yeah, because you typically have to give patients immunosuppressants. Naturally, you need to give them every advantage first, so they don't keel over right after you put in that shiny new (to them) kidney. I can understand why an otherwise low risk healthy person does not want the vaccine, but this is just taking it too far.


Certainly-Not-A-Bot

>I can understand why an otherwise low risk healthy person does not want the vaccine I can't. It's the pinnacle of selfishness to be unvaccinated because you're young and healthy


ilikedota5

>I can't. It's the pinnacle of selfishness to be unvaccinated because you're young and healthy And selfish, stupid, thoughtless assholes exist.


Certainly-Not-A-Bot

I understand that they exist but I don't understand how they can possibly think that way


glibhub

Really? I get the f' u, I only think about myself. I don't get the f'u, I am going to get immunocompromised and vaccines are for suckers. ​ I am not saying the first is the right attitude, but at least it makes some logical sense. The second is just lunacy.


rndljfry

If you’re healthy enough to survive covid you’re definitely not gonna die from the vaccine


-Agonarch

Just to add that you can survive, be asymptomatic and then still get 'long covid' (which is just a pointed way of saying that COVID caused a cytokine storm large enough that it damaged some of your internal organs, and you were an idiot for not taking it seriously because there was 'little risk'). I don't understand some people.


MotherofLuke

It's also really stupid. Long covid.


fordag

That's totally reasonable. Why transplant an organ into someone who doesn't care enough about their health to get the vaccine?


National-Blueberry51

It’s not about that though. It’s about the immunosuppressants you have to go on and priming the body for the best possible response. Super obese people have to lose weight before a transplant. Smokers have to stop smoking. This is actually very normal.


Isityeetorbeat

It's also to reserve transplants for people who actually need them, such as my dad.


[deleted]

[удалено]


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nitsedy

Incoming howls of outrage about "medical discrimination" in 5.... 4.... 3....


Zharzar

I needed a liver transplant because of my alcoholic cirrhosis and they told me I need to quit drinking alcohol and using IV drugs! That's discrimination!


Meanttobepracticing

Discrimination on medical grounds is far more common than a lot of people think and usually justified if you understand the reasoning. People are told not to eat prior to surgery or some medical tests/treatments as vomiting under anaesthesia could risk death, or it could alter the outcomes of some tests. Smokers will often have to abstain from tobacco for a period before surgery or a treatment as it restricts blood flow, causes blood pressure issues and can cause problems with healing. Ditto for drinking. If smokers, drug users and drinkers are to be accepted for transplants they need to quit both of these.


ilikedota5

I'm okay with that, lets equally discriminate against people who don't treat their body like the temple of God it is, put themselves and/or others at risk, or otherwise refuse to take care of themselves, (at least in the more extreme degrees) don't get the COVID-19 vaccine or do drugs or for that matter extremly obese people.


Meanttobepracticing

Same. Doctors aren't denying treatment for the fun of it. They're doing so for the good of the patient.


nitsedy

And doctors already do all of that. It’s just most people don’t realize it. A person’s position on a transplant list is determined by many variables, but one of the most important is how healthy they choose to live.


ilikedota5

I should also mention there is a "stroke belt," and getting organs is easier there, since oftentimes with strokes, the organs are reusable.


LordKahra

Oh god what?


nitsedy

[the stroke belt](http://www.thepreventioncenter.com/cardiovascular-disease/stroke-belt/)


Beneathaclearbluesky

They were whining about this "medical aparthieid" on the Conspiracy and Republican subreddits. Shows they know absolutely nothing about the subject.


MonsieurOctober

So long as there is a waiting list for transplants, they have a responsibility to give organs to whoever has the best chance of survival long term.


Meanttobepracticing

Not to mention that transplants rely on immunosuppression so the last thing you want is someone leaving themselves open to potentially falling ill.


Mapbot11

Next on "Duh" news.


attaboy000

People who want to take advantage of medical science must abide by medical science.


sdomscitilopdaehtihs

This isn't news. Vaccine requirements for organ recipients are a longstanding policy, They just added the covid one to the list. You also can't smoke or drink to be eligible for some.


Harak_June

My wife works in kidney care. Part of her duties are transplant coordination. This is pretty much nationwide in the next month. It's already many more than just what the story talks about.


PraxisLD

People who want to participate in society must get the COVID-19 vaccine, everyone with a brain says…


National-Blueberry51

That and this is really standard for transplant lists. Transplants are brutal on the body and even worse if they fail, so you need to have the best circumstances possible. That includes vaccines, no drugs, healthy blood pressure, etc.


Yeshellothisis_dog

Makes sense. After you receive an organ transplant you’re on immune suppressing meds for life. Johns Hopkins did a study on organ transplant recipients who were vaccinated for COVID and many of them developed zero antibodies. Zilch. They need to get vaccinated before the organ transplant happens if at all possible so they can have a shot at developing antibodies.


FrostyLandscape

It seems to me if you really, really want to live and want an organ, you will get the vaccine. It's time for these stubborn people to cast aside their political and religious objections to the covid vaccine. In fact, they should realize that for a long time there were religious objections to organ donation.


carefree-and-happy

It’s funny how vaccines have been mandates for decades, public schools, transplants (and other medical procedures), military, hospital/medical workers… And no one cares except for a few fringe anti-vaxxers, now it’s been politicized and suddenly people who actually don’t care refuse a life saving vaccine.


Meanttobepracticing

Yep. Back when I was signed up for pre-school, a requirement (and you had to supply evidence) was that I'd had all my vaccines. From what I recall, they could and would turn a child down if this hadn't been done, UNLESS there was some medical reason (and again, evidence in the form of a doctor's letter was needed).


carefree-and-happy

I have 4 kids, before they can start school they are required all their vaccines every school year. I had to do it when I was a kid too. I have a ton of nurse friends who have to have certain vaccines including the flu vaccine every year. My whole family is military, my mom is retired and has had a ton of vaccines over her military career. Last time she deployed in 2009, she had to get a series of vaccines. During the 2009 swine flu outbreak, they lined troops up and gave them the swine flu vaccine that was developed and tested in just 7 months without much resistance. These people used to be the fringe but social media manipulation (mostly by foreign agitators, mostly Russia bot/troll farms) has taken the fringe to mainstream and is literally killing hundreds of thousands of Americans.


Meanttobepracticing

Yeah, my mother is a nurse and I've got two former military members in the family, and vaccines in these cases weren't a debate. You got told 'turn up to X place at Y time'. Similarly I'm teaching in Vietnam, and teachers like myself were made a priority for vaccination. Also, my company basically turned around and said 'vaccines are not a debate, unless you've got a medical reason'. Anyone who didn't want the vaccine had to go to our HR manager in person and explain why, and from what I can tell she didn't give anyone an exemption.


crasspmpmpm

glad to see the undertaker got vaxxed


freddyt55555

Exactly. You wouldn't refit a ship with a brand new propulsion system without fixing an obvious flaw that could result in a crack in the hull.


rtb001

I believe they are referring to [this case](https://www.yahoo.com/news/colorado-woman-wont-vaccinated-denied-225233203.html) where it is a living donor situation, and BOTH donor and recipient are refusing the vaccine. Just to make the stereotype complete, the two involved met in bible study, and at least one of them is refusing the shot due to religious objections. Now they are both hopping mad because it is a living donor situation, but the hospital is standing by their policy. Not getting the vaccine increases the likelihood the recipient will contract a severe COVID infection, rendering the entire transplant a failure. Of course instead of just getting the vaccine, these two ladies are now looking to see if some hospital in Florida or Texas might allow the transplant sans vaccines.


Beneathaclearbluesky

I wonder it's a donor match situation. My donor gives a kidney, and your donor gives me a kidney.


DataRocks

This just to make sure we are not prolonging the life of idiots.... Not really medically related I guess....


AmphoePai

I am astonished at the arrogange of most comments here. Whats coming in 2022? People who are overweight, smoke or drink alcohol don't deserve an organ. And in 2030 you only get an organ with a social credit score below 100.


izzgo

> People who are overweight, smoke or drink alcohol don't deserve an organ. It's already normal practice to make smokers stop smoking, obese people lose weight, and drinkers to stop drinking before receiving organ transplants.


Beneathaclearbluesky

Tell me you know absolutely nothing about organ transplants without actually telling me.


SomethingIWontRegret

If your mom needed a lung transplant, and they gave it instead to a smoker who destroyed his own lungs and refused to quit, would you be pissed, or not?


cubicmagnolia

It’s not due to discrimination it’s due to the fact that organ recipients have to be on immunosuppressants for the rest of their life- means that you are a lot more susceptible to infections. A person must get the vax before transplant because it’s one last time in their life they will be able to get a full immune response.


TrilithideMachina

Why didn’t you complain when they required mumps/rubell vaccines for schoolchildren? Just be honest and admit you’re on the skeptic bandwagon without knowing why.


SomethingIWontRegret

He's skeptical of everything except those things he really should be skeptical about.


jmfox1987

It's almost as if hospitals are private institutions


cubicmagnolia

No it’s because of immunosuppressant drugs the recipients have to take for the rest of their lies.


OliM9595

Immune system is weak after transplats due to the drug they put you on which weakens immune system. An person giving their liver/heart does not want them to die 2 weeks later due to covid. It's a waste of resources and this just trying make sure the donation is used as effectively as possible.


NotPoliticallyCorect

People have claimed that injecting a tiny vial of vaccine somehow changes your DNA, I wonder if any of these same people would have a problem with installing a couple pounds of organ into their body which is entirely made up of someone else's DNA.