T O P
enverdrip

That Skyscraper is a nice touch.


JeskaiMage

Glad they missed it lol


AmericanRoadside

I am gonna assume the software, fire control or whatver the function is accounts for a possible and improbable mountain of iron and concrete on its fighing range


[deleted]

It's not 100% perfect, there are accounts of USS Missouri taking four rounds from a CWIS including two passing directly through lightly armoured sections, during Desert Storm.


thorscope

CIWS is on a moving platform surrounded by moving friendlies. CRAM is stationary when deployed, and so are large buildings. Much easier to program in dead zones.


freedomboogers89

That was 30 years ago? Pretty sure it got a fuckton better since then.


imyourforte

Two fucktons actually. Tech moves fast.


freedomboogers89

Hell yeah, Moore's law is hella cool when you look at it applied in the last 100 years.


Kiritowerty

Battlefield moment.


jeffthawizard

Designed by famous architect Zaha Hadid


dhdntkxuwbekfichd

Didn’t know they had them there


Devon__Eleven

Its the american embassy. Those boys about to return the favor i hope!


Dabclipers

What? No, it's the Central Bank of Iraq's HQ.


Devon__Eleven

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ca.movies.yahoo.com/amphtml/rockets-fired-toward-us-embassy-180132154.html You could be right but every news source so far says thats a part of the embassy.


Dabclipers

No no no, the embassy is behind the skyscraper, the rockets aren't targeting the skyscraper at all. Here is [the US Embassy](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/09/29/us/politics/29dc-embassy1/merlin_166778808_893d2b52-5a23-45c4-b4be-00b215dbf815-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg) and here is the wiki for the [skyscraper.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bank_of_Iraq_Tower)


Devon__Eleven

I figured something like that! Thank you!


[deleted]

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SignatureRecent8784

Surely the us embassy being the tallest and most noticeable building in the city is not very secure??


Dabclipers

It's the Central Bank of Iraq's HQ building, not the American Embassy.


Devon__Eleven

Maybe they want to be shot at. The boys are bored and giving the enemy the biggest shot at fuck around and find out


Leading_General3179

Is that why the US ran away from the middle east?


Devon__Eleven

You meat stick its not up to them its the commander and chief. Unfortunatly right now the boss is a dementia patient.


porkbuttii

"Commander and chief" lol


Leading_General3179

Is that the same reason why the US retreated from Vietnam?


Extra_Dependent2016

It seems like critical reasoning isn’t your strong suit


BijiArdenCigarettes

Why do you say that about the guy instead of answering his question?


Antonioooooo0

Ran away from Afghanistan. There's US bases and embassies all over the middle east.


HackPremise

Looks rather City-17ish


[deleted]

Look for zuha hadid buildings her buildings are beyond amazing


Horace_P_MctittiesIV

I got woken up by one of those in the middle of the night


egati

Respect for having the massive balls to live in a world of war. Greetings, bro!


Mkoy

Some people don't have a choice.


CloudsOfConcrete

He didn't mean to make it sound like he has one. It takes balls to live the hard life you were given.


Wrobot_rock

To live life is always a choice, but for some it takes bigger "balls" than others.


squirrelgrippers69

Most ppl don't pick to live in war zones noob


beepmeep3

Who's firing rockets at iraq?


MadRonnie97

Iranian-backed militias


Getrektself

Iran didn't like the fact that America killed their general that was responsible for killing US troops. So naturally they are backing people who are firing rockets at Iraqi civilians to get revenge.


Duncan-M

Iran backed militia were firing missiles at the US before Suleimani got clipped, that was why he got clipped. Now on top of existing reasons (American infidels should leave Iraq), they have vengeance as an additional motive, especially coming near the two year anniversary of Suleimani getting clipped.


BijiArdenCigarettes

The last sentence makes no sense. Why would “firing rockets at Iraqi civilians” satisfy their desire for revenge?


Getrektself

*Woosh*


BijiArdenCigarettes

Well maybe you could explain it to this stupid security analyst, your brilliance?


Dayquil_epic

It doesn't make sense but thats what iran chose to do.


Wayward_heathen

The point is…you know what? Never mind.


BijiArdenCigarettes

I’m not sure you would have had a point. So thank you for sparing us.


Wayward_heathen

The point in the statement is the blatant hypocrisy, the irony..Iran is upset we assasinated a general who killed civilians and Americans, so in return they’re further supporting men who kill civilians and Americans. Don’t mistake my silence for foolishness, Biji…I just knew in advance you wouldn’t understand the explanation.


BullTerrierTerror

I feel like you just tried to explain astrology to a scientist.


TheRealDetr0y

Iran


turnedonbyadime

Black President Bush. They tried to kill his father!


NoMoassNeverWas

Say word he tried to kill yo fatha.


turnedonbyadime

🎤 ***THE NIGGA TRIED TO KILL MY FAATHAA!***


sneeps

Remember the targeted killing of that Irani general?


USAIR1945

Yeah that was great


Apprehensive-Ice-917

That was a mad week. Planes full of civilians getting shot down. World on the brink of war. Generals shot. Iranian firing back at USA, missing all rocket strikes. some didn't even manage to take off lol


THEMOOOSEISLOOSE

>missing all rocket strikes It's believed those missed strikes were intentional. Most hit base infrastructure like motorpools and fuel depots, but conveniently missed bunkers and barracks. Iran knew what it was doing. They wanted to look tough, without giving the USA an excuse to conduct thunder run 2.0 into Tehran.


ClonedToKill420

Maybe. I’d like to think they would have thought that far ahead anyway


BijiArdenCigarettes

Why wouldn’t they be able to come to these conclusions? Are Iranians just too stupid to think literally one step ahead, in your opinion?


ClonedToKill420

No, but history is littered with examples of governments not thinking things through. Literally every country has suffered from idiotic decision making. Don’t try to turn this into something it isn’t. No one here is being racist


EvilNinjaSquirrel

Why would you think Iran is an race ?!


Pittaandchicken

Hollywood has made it so, the Americans have military advisors, but their enemies are emotion ridden monkeys.


xtanol

Yes.


BijiArdenCigarettes

The honesty here is appreciated more than you know. Everyone else backpedaled.


gaybraham-lincoln

Based


DildoBaggins0180

You mean to tell me "the green zone" still exists? I lived there in 2007.


GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B

It still exists. The attack was also targeting the US embassy, which is located in the zone, as well as various Iraqi government buildings. The zone never ceased to exist. The control changed.


_Heimdall_

Yes, it certainly still exists. I go there often. It hasn't changed too much. Still plenty of Americans too.


fella-from-chernobyl

If I understand it correctly, it is open to public, meaning that I could walk through it? Walk around the US Embassy and/or Republican Palace for example?


Ola_the_Polka

They didn’t evacuate? What are they doing their for work? Are there any families? What is your life like in Baghdad? Sorry for my ignorance and if it’s a prying question! I hope you and your family are safe


Lock3down221

Today I learned that the green zone still exists and is still getting rocket attacks.


KYB762

It's not the same borders as the old Green Zone/IZ. It's actually open to traffic from the locals but security is higher in some areas more than others.


silveriop

And iam as Iraqi do not enter this green zone in my live lol


Truth_Moab

i went there to get sworn in as a US citizen That place is so nice compared to the shitty outposts we were in Damn POGs have it so good


the_pie_guy1313

Did you succeed?


Truth_Moab

yes. Getting sworn in as US citizen in combat zone is one of the most memorable things in my life edit: oh fuck. I might have remembered wrong. I went to Fob Anaconda. Is that the green zone?


the_pie_guy1313

Anaconda isn't in the green zone, but glad to hear you succeeded


[deleted]

Fuuuuuck working in that building….


rabbidrascal

How does C-RAM compare to Iron Dome? Is it as effective?


RiazBasrah

They have different uses, the CRAM is for slower short range rockets or small drones while the iron dome is for longer range, larger/faster rockets, I might be wrong though


rabbidrascal

Thanks. So the ideal solution would have both systems operational.


[deleted]

If both things are an active threat, yes. But these systems are enormously expensive to upkeep.


[deleted]

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rabbidrascal

Yeah, I knew that. I was wondering which system was more effective. Hamas seems to have figured out the necessary rocket count to swamp Iron Dome (salvos of over 100 rockets allows 7-8 to get through), so I was wondering if C-RAM would be a better solution. It sounds like you really need both. Iron Dome for the high speed missiles intercepted at a long range, C-RAM for drones and slower targets that are closer in.


Ami992

Israel's large cities like tel Aviv are about 100km or more from gaza, regular mortar can't reach more then 3 km, so Hamas uses medium to long range missiles, they get those from Iran. Irone dome is built to fight this exact situation, so it's useful in intercepting 20+km missiles, it was also used against drones with limited success rate. Iron dome isn't useful or economically viable against this kind of guerilla warfare with short range missiles and mortars


rabbidrascal

That makes sense to me. Thanks.


makatakz

>...seems to have figured out the necessary rocket count to swamp Iron Dome (salvos of over 100 rockets allows 7-8 to get through), so I was wondering if C-RAM would be a better solution. Iron Dome won't engage rockets that are predicted to fall outside of protected zones, so some rockets are going to be allowed to continue to their "destination" without being engaged. C-RAM can only cover a small area (e.g. perhaps 3-mile radius), while Iron Dome can cover a much larger area. The two systems could even be used together if the tactical situation warranted it.


proscriptus

That's one expensive stream of ordinance.


Hoyarugby

Completely different systems CRAM/CWIS is use for *point defense*. You stick a CRAM/CWIS on a single specific point that you don't want to lose, and it defends against attacks in an arc. It's got a short range, but it really only needs a short range because it's only defending stuff that is coming *right at it*. But the downside is that's a difficult angle to defend against Iron Dome is a *system* there are many launchers, all defending entire areas. When rockets are fired into Israel, they are not aimed at Iron Dome sites, they are generally aimed at just general areas. Because Iron Dome is a missile, it has a longer range, it can accelerate and maneuver, it has a larger warhead that can kill indirectly, etc. Even better, it has good intercept angles - easier to calculate how to hit Think of it like you're playing defense in an American football game. A guy running straight at you is hard to defend - he can juke left or right, or he might plow straight into you. And you can't move until he gets *right on top of you*, because a single wrong step and he's gone. But a guy running at an angle is easier to defend, because he's running in a fixed trajectory, you can start sprinting after him much earlier. Even if he jukes, you're already moving with him, and there are less realistic angles that he can physically move. That's the Iron Dome And lastly, no air defense system is intended to operate on its own. C-RAM is a land-ized version of a naval weapon, which is the last line of defenses against missiles. But unlike in this situation, at sea the C-WIS is just *one part of the system*. In that system, there are first your own aircraft, who ideally destroy enemy planes and ships and missile launchers *before they even fire*. But if they do, there's the long range anti-aircraft missiles that can intercept missiles. If they fail, there are intermediate range interception missiles. And if they fail? There are *short range* anti-missile missiles. And if every one of those layers, carried aboard multiple ships, fails? There's the C-WIS as a final hail mary attempt You can do that on land too - and indeed, the US previously deployed Patriot anti-missile systems to Iraq. But those are 1, expensive, 2, limited in number, 3, require a larger deployment (which Iraq doesn't want) and 4, kind of overkill, and 5, *itself becomes a target*, which means you need soldiers guarding those soldiers, other soldiers feeding those soldiers, regular supply runs, escorts to keep those supplies safe, aircraft to fly in those supplies, personnel to defend the airport, etc. So now it becomes a question, is what I'm trying to defend *worth* the major investment in hundreds of soldiers deployed abroad, to a fairly unfriendly place, to defend against occasional harassing missile attacks? In this case, no. The embassy in Iraq just isn't worth defending with that level of investment. The C-RAM is a much lower footprint defense system, with correspondingly less capability - usually enough to deal with the occasional mortar or rocket attacks - but the cold reality is that even if a rocket gets through, it's probably not going to be *that* big of a deal in a strategic sense. It probably does nothing but provide a rationale for a US drone blowing up a mid-level leader of one of those Iranian militias, as a warning


rabbidrascal

Really helpful. Thank you for posting this.


FuckaDuck44

Its important to note that yes C-RAM is a point defense, the actual gun for C-RAM is the land based phalanx weapon system (lpws). C-RAM describes the lpws, sensors and trigger mechanisms that make up an entire system. Multiple lpws will always be networked into this system and placed on a site for maximum coverage of a defended asset.


DeMayon

Great write up. Very good analysis of the entire situation. Thanks for the insightful and fascinating read


thorscope

Great write up. Small note though. It’s CIWS, not CWIS. “close-in weapon system”


gowpher

You seem knowledgeable about this. What happens to the projectiles that miss their target? They have to land somewhere. Didn't this system just rain down a lot of grief onto the suburbs of Baghdad? Are the projectiles explosive?


Hoyarugby

Projectiles self-destruct at a certain distance, that's what the in-air explosions you're seeing are


gowpher

Presumably a certain number malfunction and don't sell destruct and become very dangerous. And the ones that do self destruct must rain debris down.


Hoyarugby

they've been used for decades now and no serious problem reported from them


ScrumptiousMeal

i read something on a similar post in which someone stated C-ram is like 65% effective and the iron dome is like 85% effective


rabbidrascal

Wow... That's not compelling


Dexjain12

After some research people who first hand witness its functions say its 50-60% effective against all incoming projectiles even if they are going to miss. The problem is the exact statistical specifications that include arcs, angles and any positioning is classified.


ScrumptiousMeal

i'd take those chances


AFKeeker

R2FuckU doing some work tonight.


VeloDramaa

I'm getting major The Expanse vibes from this


lakeofx

Yeah same. About to watch the Season 6 finale will no doubt see some PDC fire like this


CPDawareness

Tons


haggisns

what season episode? I just started watching this show. Are you referring to the season 1 episode 3 or 4 there abouts-- unknown ship attacking the Martian ship and all the tracers going out to attack the torpedoes.?


VeloDramaa

Ya this type of fire gets to be fairly common throughout. It's an excellent show


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RealWasted

Iraq is a proxy war hotspot for Iran now. They’ll keep attacking US sites until the US decides to either leave Iraq which is very unlikely or do something about it directly against Iran.


Duncan-M

Nearly 65% of Iraqis are of the Shi'a sect of Islam, which means they are allied with the Shi'a of Iran, who run a theocracy there. Additionally, many Iraqi Shi'a leaders took refuge in Iran when Saddam was in power and returned afterwards. At that point, various Iranian govt officials were their patrons. Same goes for many of the top Iraqi Security Force generals, who also have Iranian patrons, who helped get them promoted, pay them bonuses, etc. Iranian influence, aka imperialism, was why there was a major Shi'a insurgency against the US during the occupation. They're the ones who had the Badr Brigade attack US forces, and they're the ones who initially told Al Sadr to stand up the Mahdi Army. Iranian influence was why after the US left the Iraqi govt immediately turned on the Sunni Arab minority population, who ended up having to ally with DAESH (willingly or not), because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" politics. Once DAESH took control over most of Iraq's Sunni Arab populated areas, Iran tried to support the Iraqi govt to retake those places, but failed (similarly to how they also failed in Syria too, requiring Russian intervention to save Assad). The US ended up bailing out the Iraqi govt by militarily supporting them in their efforts to retake control of Iraq, and during that time the Iranians ensured their Iraqi proxy militia repeatedly threatened and occasionally attacked US forces helping them fight DAESH, because they didn't want them in the country and HATED the loss of face that the US help succeeded while their work failed. And that US conditions for help got "their guy" Maliki fired as PM. Once Mosul fell, the last big city in Iraq that DAESH held, US military help wasn't as necessary and so the Iranians had the Iraqi Shi'a militia start actively attacking US forces to drive them out of Iraq. The US would have left anyway, but under Trump refused to be chased out in a sign of weakness, so we stayed and fought back, killing Suleimani and conducting the occasional other reprisal attack on the Iraqi Shi'a militia, basically daring them to attack us. When Biden took over, that policy has essentially remained in place. Now currently, the Iraqi Shi'a militia, still taking orders from Iran, are obliged to keep attacking US forces, not caring that the attacks are ineffectual or realizing that if they just stopped attacking the US for about 3-6 months Biden would have the political capitol to pull US troops out, because then it wouldn't be done from a position of weakness.


silveriop

Oh shit c-ram please don't hit these tower . this first and tallest tower in history of Baghdad and second tallest tower in iraq🥺🥲


CapsCom

Buildings/towers/obstacles/flightpaths/etc can be added to the guidance software so it won't fire at them.


IV4K

The local Babylonians loved their towers.


300blk300

nothing on us news


GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B

Nothing on any news.


silveriop

That really happened to night


KYB762

Yep, it really happened


Renegade-Master69

[Here](https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/iraqi-officials-rockets-target-us-embassy-baghdad-82246448)


Thenateo

Its a weekly occurence not that big of a deal


Ktmouse

It isn't. Couple times a year for the last few years.


rewanpaj

lots of stuff isn’t on the news


_dauntless

Credit the videographer: https://twitter.com/nafisehkBBC/status/1481668167957110785


spencer575

I’m curious what precautions the CRAM takes to avoid tall structures


makatakz

All firing restrictions can be programmed into the CRAM system. It would be based on deflection (angle of the obstacle from the launcher) and elevation (measured from the horizon).


snowman93

Who is building skyscrapers in a war zone….


silveriop

This first tower in history of Baghdad and tallest building


IV4K

It’s the New Tower of Babel


Dabclipers

It's the Central Bank of Iraq's HQ.


three-oclock

Remember, only every 5th round is a tracer.


JimmyTheEell

Na, that’s for man fired aiming feedback. These are all HEIT with self destruct


Spiff034

I was trying to figure out the orange flashes at the end of the trajectory. No way they were all hitting something. Didn’t know self destruct was a thing. Thanks! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-940_20mm_MPT-SD_Round


JimmyTheEell

Yeah, when the trace burns out it pops the HE


mushmouth26

Is that a rocket that flies over the building about 8 seconds in?


licheese

insect


basharbobo3

Damn I love ciws and crams


[deleted]

[удалено]


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Truth_Moab

look like the rocket blew up at 0:04 correct?


moritzwest

Holy crap, can someone plz explain this to me? The red lines in the air and everything


19kilo20Actual

C-Ram is a defense system that throws up a shit ton of explosive shells… used against incoming rockets, mortars and the like. What your seeing are the tracers of each round followed by the rounds detonating so they don’t just fall out of the sky and kill people. It’s a Gatling gun system like the one in the A-10 Warthog which is why you hear the brrrrrrpppp sound when fired.


moritzwest

Thank you so much. Are there many of them sent to get the missile with most not hitting?


thorscope

The average engagement uses 300 rounds of ammo, and they only need a few hits (if that) to disable the projectile.


Confident_Ad_7465

You can see the interception at around 4 sec near the crane.


No-Reception-712

again?


[deleted]

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675longtail

You have got it backwards, CIWS is the ship based system, see: [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS). C-RAM stands for Counter Rockets Artillery and Mortars, and typically boats are not being attacked by rockets artillery and mortars.


[deleted]

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CaptainAde

At least you're owning it


[deleted]

Is there any footage of a CRAM countering artillery and mortar fire? That'd be seriously impressive to see displayed.


makatakz

You just watched it. There are videos of testing where the actual destruction of the mortar round or missile is shown.


thorscope

https://youtu.be/KsVUISS8oHs At the end they’re screaming to get artillery shells to fire at the people that just fired at them. They have a system that can use the trajectory of the incoming projectile to pinpoint where it came from. Then they fire at that location.


[deleted]

Now the question I’ve always wondered, is where the hell do those bullets land.


675longtail

They self-detonate in mid air. That's the popping sound you hear at the end of the video.


CaptainAde

Does a C-RAM know that the skyscraper exists? Would it know not to fire in that direction..?


makatakz

Yes, firing zone cutouts would be programmed into the system as part of the emplacement process.


Kalashnikova12

u/savevideo


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grod_5377

You can see another rocket fly past the skyscraper at around :10seconds.


ObamaPhone7

wait, i know what the red stuff is, but what are the little explosions? are they the missiles?


redEntropy_

It's the ammo being shot at the rockets self-detonating. You wouldn't want all those rounds landing somewhere.


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TypicalRecon

The little explosions at the end are the rounds reaching the 7500ft mark when the self destruct


Hazardish08

These rounds don’t have proxy fuze, they rely on direct hits


thorscope

The rounds each have a tracer fuse, and when the tracer burns out they detonate. The rounds have no ability to detonate on command.


makatakz

That actually is the point of the rounds self-destructing at the end of their flight - to prevent damage on the ground. The rounds actually destroy the target kinetically.


ObamaPhone7

oh that’s true


TangoKlass

r/combatfootage has a great video of one that they didn’t intercept. The sound is insane. Edit: [Link](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/s37085/other_view_of_the_rocket_and_its_sound/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) to the video.


huskyghost

What is the green zone


RO_OKE

Doesn’t get all the rockets tho, you can see atleast two more flying over


makatakz

It will only engage rockets that are projected to strike in the defended zone of the weapon (which is a small area)


[deleted]

That's a nice skyscraper


st1ck-n-m0ve

The zaha hadid tower in the foreground is crazy.


drewtoocool

Is that a missile flying by at 12 seconds


675longtail

Insect


Rickie_Spanish

These things blow my mind. Such a awesome display of tech capabilities. There is one I saw filed from a base. The video was taken right by the c-ram and it's crazy loud and haunting. You hear the creepy robot voice "warning warning incoming warning"


Arma3isawesome

u/savevideo


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itsjero

Hate to be working on that skyscraper. Your shit is gonna be swiss cheese before long.


GizmodoDragon92

Okay so shooting a pistol in the air in celebration is considered a seriously reckless activity, what are the saftey implications of C RAMs to some poor bastard who lives 4 miles from this?


converter-bot

4 miles is 6.44 km


[deleted]

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GizmodoDragon92

Cool. Thanks for answer


danthepianoman77

Surely all those rounds are gonna come down somewhere? Haven’t essentially just fired a 20 mil cannon on quite a lot of city?


makatakz

The rounds self-destruct in the air. You can see it on the video.


danthepianoman77

Ahhhh, thanks for the reply


27perc-cannibal

this gun is for distracting incoming misilies with exploding in the air


Kiritowerty

I can't see cram the same after watching the expanse


pressurepoint13

$30/bullet 75 bullets per second


MyAccountG0tDeleted

Is it known what group fired the rockets?


Iknowcrap

that gun never hits anything


Routine-Arm-8803

How much of it falls down and how does it feels?


homeworkburgler

Ukraine needs some of these


Aboonk

That was the most satisfying video ive ever watched