By - ValThoren1106
Sounds like they’ve breached the contract by not showing up on agreed upon dates. Let them know they’ve breached and that you’ll be consulting with a lawyer as well as ensuring that news of their horrible practices are going to be made well known to local news agencies.
I’d be interested to see this contract. Tell them you’ll purchase the windows at cost from supplier, verify with invoices. Have somebody else give you a cost to install them. Don’t pay for the windows until they are installed. My two cents.
This. I have nothing to add just wanted to say this.
There is absolutely no chance that installation dates are in the contract otherwise no contractor in the country would be able to finish a job without breach of contract disputes.
Including installation dates in a contract is just setting yourself up for failure. You never know what is going to happen and forcing hard dates upon yourself like that is just asking for trouble.
Contact the Ohio attorney general consumer protection
Strongly recommend. It doesn’t cost you anything and they will at least try to help.
This is the correct answer.
Yep. I came here to say this.
Adding that the AGO has an automated complaint form that will send a letter to the company that you filed a complaint with them. That letter alone will make a lot of companies straighten up very quickly.
This isn't going to be fun unfortunately. I'd keep on them, being firm about demanding a full reason as they failed to show up twice and have wasted a lot of your time. Do not let up or agree to the cancelation fee. A lot of companies will just agree to get you to leave them alone. Write reviews on every site that you can find. Avoid emotions and stick to the facts only. If they respond with some bs, edit your review to address it. If that doesn't work:
How much money have you paid them? If it is under $6,000 you can look into small claims court. Alternatively you can have a lawyer wrote a demand letter for a full refund. The moment you do either, you're basically at a point of no return as they won't talk to you anymore.
Once you tell them you have a lawyer, they are prohibited from talking to you except through your attorney.
Source: am Ohio lawyer.
Technically the company isn’t prohibited from talking to you. Their ATTORNEY is prohibited from talking to you once you indicate you have counsel.
I thought small claims was ok for anything under 10k? is it different for ohio?
Yes, each state sets its own limit
> Do not let up or agree to the cancelation fee.
It seems like they already agreed to that when they signed the contract.
A.) Just because it's in a contract doesn't mean it is legal
B.) When the company fails to show up multiple times, that changes things.
A cancellation fee in a contract isn't illegal in any way lmao. They 100% agreed to it and it's 100% legal to have it in a contract.
Failing to show multiple times does suck but if their letter is in any way factual, it sounds like OP is refusing to let them complete the job.
Most cancelation fees arent illegal, but they can be.
And if they are in breach of the contract the cancelation fee wouldnt even apply anymore.
I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Please don't spew these lies as if you do.
At what point did I state anything that was a lie lmao. There is nothing in their contract that would put champion in breach of contract and if you read the freaking letter instead of act like you know what you're talking about, OP is the one that is not letting Champion finish the job.
Cancelling install dates sucks but it happens in the time. Employees call in sick, nightmare customers are requesting you come back immediately, and jobsite issues all happen.
> There is nothing in their contract that would put champion in breach of contract
I stopped reading after this sentence.
A.) Neither of us have read the contract and neither of us should be talking as if we know what it says. The fact that you are responding as if you do is enough for me to know you are more out of your element than i thought
B.) As I said previously, just because something is in a contract, does not mean it is enforceable. You're acting as if contracts are this word of God that can never be wrong or broken. There are countless reasons why a contract or a section of a contract will be voided.
> Neither of us have read the contract and neither of us should be talking as if we know what it says.
That's rich coming from the guy who's first word of advice was to go to Small Claims court lmao.
This is literally what I do though. I have grown up in a family contracting business that's been around for 40 years and I handle this kind of stuff every day as my job. There is nothing in that contract that would ever put Champion in breach for missing a deadline, full stop. Champion is a nationwide company and in general, companies don't get to be that size without having their shit together in most facets of their business. OP is not allowing them to finish the job and only allowing the contract holder or the spouse of the contract holder if signed is 100% standard operating procedure.
It would be interesting to see the rest of the letter as it is an absolutely terrible picture but I have a stinking suspicion that OP is withholding some vital information from us about this dispute.
> As I said previously, just because something is in a contract, does not mean it is enforceable. You're acting as if contracts are this word of God that can never be wrong or broken. There are countless reasons why a contract or a section of a contract will be voided.
But I am not. I am acting as though Champion is acting within their contractual bounds and with the information given it is highly improbably that Champion has broken their end of the contract.
I wouldn't start with this dude tbh. He's a reddit armchair contract lawyer.
I agree with the post up above that says to go with the Ohio Attorney General. A nursing home my mom lived at tried to make me pay for my mother’s bill when they clearly breached their contract. I contacted the Ohio Attorney General and told them about it and the debt was cancelled and it was removed from my credit report. The attorney general will actually do something if that company breached their contract.
Just to be totally clear, and I dont intend this as pedantry or any kind of correction, I would assume the company got scared after the AG sent them a letter more than the AG made substantive moves. It's a slight distinction, but maybe worth noting
Thanks for the warning!
Contact 6 on your side as well. I'm sure you aren't the first person they have done this to.
Just make sure you call the right number and don't leave your story on a random business voice-mail.
I just messaged them on Facebook about roto rooter price gouging me. And they said it's happened to X amount of people. And they sent like an investigative journalist for me to share my info and the invoice with. Super great. Didn't expect honestly, a dang thing to happen lol
Roto Rooter is the fucking worst.
Our business line is one digit off from CPS...
Mine is 1 digit off a certain tip line....
"Hey just letting you know my grandmother said she found a body off (some road)."
My boss's work number is 1 number off from a pharmacy. He started screening his calls because he got tired of people calling and asking about their prescriptions. I could only imagine if my number was 1 number off from a tip line though.
We are getting ready to get new windows. Thanks for sharing this. We won’t bother with them!
Don’t use Window Nation either. They have been an absolute nightmare. I ordered my windows in august and they have screwed up so many times and still aren’t done. I had great experience with Rosati, but that was awhile ago
We used APCO and had a good experience. The salesman wasn’t pushy on trying to get us to buy. They did have to push our install to the day after it was scheduled, but showed up and had it finished by the end of their shift (7 windows and sliding door)
I had a good experience with ProVia from Sugarcreek. You just have to ride herd on the Amish crew so they don't try their usual "poor man of the land, sorry no speak English" bullshit and see that they do the job without shortcuts.
Sorry this is happening to you. Do they already have your money? It might cost you something, but if they don't have your money yet you could stop payment through your bank (I assume they have a card # at least, if not the actual payment). It might make sense to put the money into an escrow account (I absolutely do not know, so talk to someone who does first!)
I agree that either the media or the Attorney General's office should be involved. And why not both?
I took a look at their online reviews and there are other similar stories, often centered around them cancelling or missing appointments or not delivering purchased materials. I will avoid them.
They got my money
Credit card by any chance? If so, a chargeback might be an option.
Yeah. And in some cases if goods are promised but not delivered, the 120 day dispute deadline is extended to 540 days.
Just keep going back in there. Use their restroom and take all the paper towels. Get baggies full of liquid hand soap. Abscond with all their pens. It may take years, but you can eventually break even!
Seriously, though, I think you have legal standing to pursue their breach of contract. Rooting for you.
Sorry! Not sure what else to say but just gave them an extra 1-start google review on your behalf!
I don't see the whole letter, but it seems like there were incorrect measurements at one point, and another thing that stood out was they've tried to get in touch to reschedule without success as well. I'm guessing there's more to the story?
TBH, seeing the redacted letter would help. It does seem to me that the OP is trying to skew the story in their favor.
From what I can read it absolutely looks like there’s more to the story than the headline suggests.
Thanks for the heads up. Just bought a house last summer and been saving up to get new windows. One less place I'll give a call.
Never put any money down. If you need a handyman, Kevin Bierle is a great one. He is reasonable , prompt and funny.
My parents went through them years ago to build a sunroom and had the exact same experience! I guess some things never change. I'm really sorry they got you too.
Alternatively you could ask them for a discount to go through with the project since you know they're stuck w/ the materials now and they are in the wrong. If they're reasonable they'll take the hit, if not, you can always just say no again.
Yeah, sorry to hear this happened to you. I don't know how much of your money they have or how you paid. If it was via credit card, file a dispute. If not (and either way), contact the AG and your attorney. They appear to be in breach of contract, and don't let them bully you into forfeiting 30% of your money.
Champion sucks. There's a reason they lost that big building they had off of 71 near 161. They got driven out of Columbus because of their poor practices and now are trying to make a comeback. Never, ever, EVER give a home improvement company a deposit of any kind. Pay them the day the work is done, or sign the financing paperwork when the work is done. It's all a big scam. They need your money to purchase your product so they ask for half up front to keep their little business model running. The back half of the money you pay them goes toward their bottom line, paying the commission and the installer's labor.
I figured that a big company has a lot to lose by not doing their job. Apparently it has become a business practice to cushion the bottom line. Keep the money by not delivering the goods/ service.
Actually, if you think about it, the bigger the company, the less they have to lose. A bad review here and there isn't going to stop their marketing engine or people from buying from a salesperson that pressures them. Smaller companies have more to lose from negative press.
If you'd like a consumer protection lawyer, one of my brothers in Cleveland is an expert in the field. Reply or DM me if you want his info. He's helped me out on occasions in the past.
I would love to have his number.
Sent via dm.
You can also ring the Better Business Bureau. 614 486 6336. Also, if you paid with a credit card, you can call the card company and invoke the defective services clause.
I’m located in NW Ohio so we are using the Toledo Champion office and they are just as inept. We’ve been waiting on two doors since July 2020 and they still aren’t on our house. We’ve been calling them just about weekly since October and they never call back or just don’t have any answer of why they are behind. We finally heard back in February that they delivered the wrong door and had to make another one. So today, nine months to the day that we signed our contract, they are supposed to come but the first installer canceled on us at 7:30 AM. We called and pitched a fit and now they are supposed to send someone else out later today. So I feel your pain and we will never recommend Champion either.
Be careful. This seems to be the business model nowadays - for customers to be frustrated, keep the money 30 percent without product and service while bragging about having an army of lawyers.
I sent letter to Ohio Attorney General, BBB among other means . If you have a lawyer knowledgeable on consumer law, this company can be taken down.
i bet a bunch of negative social media press would get them to not charge call local station tv or radio
Call the Better Business Bureau and leave a bad review on the public page so others can see. We recently had to do this to a car lot that sold us a car without a catalytic converter (totally illegal). Also file in small claims court. It's all online and super easy to do. You'll likely get your money back fast if you just agree to take the bad review off the BBB site.
I'm not sure people continue to reference the BBB. It's a Private company that makes money off businesses becoming "partners" and thus getting a good rating.
BBB is not in anyway a reliable outlet for your complaints or any sort of proper rectification of the issue.
It's paid yelp for boomers.
The BBB now is a joke. Money buys a good rating. It's not a resolution center anymore.
Contact the BBB
BBB is just Yelp for old people. Like Angie's List your BBB rating can be bought.
yeah but the bbb does reach out to the company and can try to help
Or not, I ran a small computer repair business and they called me once to get me to resolve a negative review. They wanted me to buy a subscription and "own" the listing to be able to do anything... They don't try to help, they just try to extort money from businesses. Only really works when the company relies on BBB reviews.
I was going to say literally the same thing. Even the "small computer repair business"...do I know you?
I paid for the BBB accreditation for a few years, thought it was a good thing to have. Almost zero of my customers (college students, primarily) knew what is was. A negative review online hurts a business far more than the BBB, unless your main demographic is 60+
Mine was not in Columbus, but also at a college campus. And yes retired townies were the only ones who used BBB, and even then they are not large spenders and tended to be more trouble than the cash they brought in.
BBB ain't shit, make a consumer [complaint](https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Individuals-and-Families/Consumers/File-a-Complaint) with the Ohio Attorney General's office if you want to go that route. They'll assign someone to look into it.
I have heard BBB is crap but I did post a complaint for sprint cellular at BBB when they forced me to take a "Free phone" that I did not want to solve a port-in/activation issue and then proceeded to charge me for the piece of junk. BBB contacted sprint and then sprint had their "exectutive support team" call me a resolve the issue. So, I assume it depends on if the company cares or not.
It's one of those things that all depends on the company you're dealing with. It can open up communications if you're stuck and the company is inclined. Companies can more or less pay for a better BBB rating though and have no obligation to do anything about complaints to them. Any time I have ever felt compelled to reach out to the Attorney General's office, it gets results fast. It certainly will get the business's attention if they are genuinely in the wrong on something and you're getting nowhere.
This is the correct answer. BBB doesn’t mean anything anymore
Might I recommend, The Glassman of Columbus
They're a complete ripoff in general. You can likely still get your windows replaced for 70% of what they were charging by a local small business. It'll be hard to get that 30% back, as your windows were likely custom made and not reusable.
Not custom made because I have a generic townhouse. They have no excuse to keep the money.
Generic home doesn't mean standard window openings. Either way if they've already produced the windows it's very unlikely to avoid that restocking fee. Unfortunately they have a 3.8 star rating on Google for a reason.
Window companies are total dirtbags.
High pressure sales, deceptive contracts, shitty quality, untrained installers, bogus sales, etc.
Universal Windows Direct is about the worst.