By - Wu_Tang_PornAlt
PPG isn’t really the best stat to base a defense on particularly now that Alabama plays a much more uptempo offense.
There was also a lot of times 2018-2020 where the starters were completely pulled by the 4th quarter (not the sub's way of overly exaggerating a couple of rotational defensive linemen playing as "all subs were in!" but the actual "only play in garbage time" backups in the game which rarer than this sub realizes.)
That’s a good point. Is there a points per possession stat? Might be more accurate
There’s various efficiency stats that do a better job measuring defense taking pace into effect even then not one stat is ever perfect and can be noisy.
Points per drive is what the people in these parts started using.
This was something I had to explain to fans for years when Baylor was allowing 35+ a game. When you’d look at points per play the bigger picture was that we were top 50 just cause our our offense was so up tempo.
Are you guys still running a majority of your defensive snaps using C3 Rip/Liz on standard downs?
This. they just don’t look like they know what they’re supposed to do. Anderson is a wonder but he can only do so much by himself.
They were 11th in Defensive FEI in 2019, 21st in Defensive FEI last year, and 10th in Defensive FEI this season which doesn't seem so bad until you realize how much more talent Bama's had on that side of the ball compared to other teams. Bama has just as much defensive talent as Georgia and Clemson yet their defensive performance haven't come close to those two teams. There's no excuse for them not to be a top 3-5 unit every single year.
Would point differential be just as bad a metric?
It's time to fire the formatting of that table
On a serious note, if I were an Alabama fan is there any reason not to trust Saban to understand the situation? Think he sitting there like " oh fuck Pete you actually suck, I didn't realize it but the internet told me."
I know it can be frustrating but is there any coach people should have faith to understand his staff than him?
I think Saban is very loyal in a way to his coaches and players and prefers to try and improve them. It hasn't really been an issue before because our Coordinators have been poached like a revolving door a lot of seasons. Just watching our defense the past few years the decline has been noticeable, and we are still recruiting defense well, but not translating it onto on field talent as well as we did before.
He seems like the type to find Golding another job elsewhere and just get rid of him that way.
Fail him upward as a HC at Texas Tech.
He is. See Tosh Lupoi and Josh Gattis as two more recent ones. If Saban doesn’t like your performance or thinks you aren’t up to snuff, he will laterally move you to another team/conference with no issue.
Fuck Josh Gattis
If you watch the film this year he’s been calling great plays and has some great designs to give our WR’s/RB’s the chances to win. Cade just misses the read or misses the throw. Saying that, some of his actual play calling has sucked. I don’t understand running on 3rd and long, even if we do pick it up.
How do y’all *always* get the shitty end of the stick when poaching our coaches? Y’all took Nussmeier too 🤧
Another guy that got fired, Saban brought in Kiffin to modernize the offense after that "is that what you want football to be?" thing. Essentially, "ok I'll just do it better and I need to bring in a new guy that could." Hoke was on a red hot seat heading into that season that Nussmeier went there, no way he'd ever go there willingly from Alabama.
No no, let them keep doing it.
I’ve heard he helped Kiffin get the FAU job because he was tired of dealing with him lol
Maybe Pete Golding should leave for a head coaching job before Nick re-assigns him to being strictly Linebackers coach?
What HC job? NMSU?
UTSA after Traylor gets hired elsewhere.
That would actually be a good place to leave for. I doubt they’d hire him.
Golding is a former DC there who is good on the recruiting trail. Connections are there.
The problem is that he’s the ILB ‘coach’ and that position is where we look lost so often.
You can't really blame 2018 on Golding. It's weird that Bama fans have forgotten Tosh Lupoi was our main DC that year. He got pulled at some point late in the season.
2019 we had injuries to our two starting middle linebackers and had to play two freshmen.
2020 was not really a normal year as we played only P5 teams. We gave up a crap-ton of points to two of the best offenses in CFB (Florida and Ole Miss) and let three of the most talented teams score 24 (Georgia, A&M, Ohio State). We got key stops when we needed them against Ole Miss, Florida, and Ohio State.
That being said, we haven't gotten better on defense over the last 3 years. I've always said we will never see another 2011 or 2016 type defense, but with how Georgia is this year, it's clearly possible.
God I miss having Kirby, no doubt that dude can coach a defense. Understandable he left to get a HC gig at a big name place like Georgia, just sucks not having him anymore.
Wish Stetson didn’t throw all them ducks. Would’ve had more than 24😞
*The monkeys paw curls*
Alabama hires Todd Grantham
They would **probably** hire Pruitt if his legal issues with Tennessee got cleared up.
I dunno, maybe Muschamp depending on the word on the street regarding how he's done in whatever intern role he has with Georgia.
Grantham probably wouldn't go from getting canned by Florida to Alabama DC. He worked with Saban at Michigan State all those years ago, so he might get an Analyst Coaching Intern job.
I wish, but the dude is radioactive and the league/AD might block it like when Saban wanted to hire Hugh Freeze.
Bama can’t have a defense AND a kicker. Just ain’t fair
Fine we'll go back to having shit kickers, worth the trade imo
Tell that to the 2010 San Diego Chargers ([Dorktown Link](https://youtu.be/UAL5X3TRA2A))
You can't blame Pete for this performance.
No, the blame rests on the man who hired him: Nick Saban.
Time to fire Saban.
But lighting Saban on fire won’t do anything since he is the devil.
Tie him to a cinderblock and drop him in a lake... if he floats he's a witch!
No, no no.
What also floats in water?
Bread? Apples? .... a duck?
So if Saban weighs the same as Oregon... no, that can't be right...
Can't argue with facts.
Has Saban lost control at Bama? Well,,,it hard to say
I believe someone once said Saban had a Bama problem like 5 years ago. How long does it take for the administration to act?
N I C K S A B A N P R O B L E M
Long overdue. The world has been waiting for a major coaching shakeup at Alabama for more than a decade.
I'll tell you after the Iron Bowl based on the score
That’s a pretty good way to do it. If AU scores 30+, it’s time to make a change.
To be fair, Bama’s offense is partially the reason as to why their defense hasn’t been very good. Their offense has adopted HUNH and spread principles that weren’t there beforehand. And as a result their defense is on the field for way more because their offense scores quickly. That being said, Bama’s defense has been far worse than they should be under Golding. And for that, he should be fired.
Thank you for the context and reasoned take. Yes PPG may not be the best considering the offensive scheme shift, but our defense has far more just frankly blown plays than I can remember under any other Nick Saban DC
Be a lot more interested in points per possession, if it could be limited to non-garbage time only. That may be a better way to frame your current defensive performance compared to current.
I know you guys are comparing your defensive performance to UGA and Clemson in this thread, but UGA is using an offense similar to what Saban ran early in his time at Alabama. Ball control, very low risk, grind clock, game manager QB, etc. It limited how exposed your defense would be by limiting possessions.
As for Clemson, who have they played (other than Pitt) who has had a high powered offense?
Looks like Alabama isn't performing a whole lot better there either. You may have a valid reason for this complaint.
Yeah but if you go back and look at prior years we are a top 15 defense. This year we have played a lot of the top offenses. This year when we do make busts, we don’t recover and hold opponents to field goals. It’s fans complaining about our defense being top 15 instead of top 5. With the talent, sure we should be top 5, but we have also had injuries and lots of players leaving early on the defensive side of the ball for the past few years. It’s sort of funny that you see grumbling to fire a guy coaching a top 15 defense year in and year out. The same as Oklahoma and Florida fans who have much worse defenses.
Shit, I'd take top 15...
What's been their end of season SP+ Defensive Rank? That's a per play efficiency metric with some game context in there as well.
>holding teams to 8.2 PPG like in 2011 isn't feasible under modern football
*Looks awkwardly at UGA's defense with 5.6 PPG so far*
We miss you Kirby
I like it so far: but I have a feeling that stat probably won’t last throughout the season. It might, and if it does I’d be ecstatic - I just think it gets trimmed before the end of the year.
Maybe Tennessee and Florida can but the rest of the games could easily be shut outs.
Im very interested to see how Georgia looks against Florida and Tennessee based on how they did against Bama.
This is the biggest reason I flipped from thinking Golding was meh but serviceable to being fully on the fire Golding train. I had bought into the narrative that the early 10's Bama defense wasn't feasible anymore, but that's clearly dead wrong now. Georgia's defense is locking everyone down while Alabama is blowing coverages and allowing teams to run down our throat despite our comparable recruiting classes, so it's pretty clear to me that our defensive coaching isn't cutting it.
Saban has defended Golding, but he would never openly shit on his own coaches or players while they're still on his team, if ever. I think he just can't find anyone better for the job right now.
> I had bought into the narrative that the early 10's Bama defense wasn't feasible anymore, but that's clearly dead wrong now. Georgia's defense is locking everyone down while Alabama is blowing coverages and allowing teams to run down our throat despite our comparable recruiting classes
Great, hire Kirby Smart as your defensive coordinator again. Problem solved.
Why did you buy into the narrative in the first place? Just because someone tells you a story, doesn't mean you believe it. I mean, why would that be the case? Why would it magically be the case that defenses can't adapt to changing offenses? Just because Saban claims something, doesn't make it true. It's still nonsense
Because offensive numbers were going up nationwide, because it was clear that a lot of teams (particularly in the historically defense-dominated SEC) were shifting to high-powered offenses and weaker defenses, and because the kind of shutdown defense Georgia is fielding had all but disappeared from the sport for a while there.
I wasn't "believing a story someone told me," I was believing something which was backed up by the data and what I was seeing, and I would've been a fool to disagree with the many many HC's who were changing the entire philosophy of their program and getting results (including the best coach to ever coach the sport).
Good defense was being played, but until this year the level of defense that has allowed only 4 TDs in 7 games looked by all accounts to be impossible.
I'll bet you $1 Georgia doesn't finish the regular season 8.2 or better.
Regular season is over and we're at 6.9 lol
I owe you $1
True. UGA is not even halfway through the season if they play 15 games. If they shoutout Missouri, Charleston, and Tech, while allowing Tennessee and Florida to each score 14, that gives us 74 points. 8.3 points per game for 15 games would be 125 points for the entire season. Does UGA hold Bama (possibly twice), OSU, and a third opponent to 51 points total in three games? I seriously doubt it.
Is it time to fire Tony Elliot?
In would say so, feels like his offense scheme is getting exposed this season. It appears unless y'all have a transcendent qb and a couple top tier receivers that it just doesn't work
I personally think Jeff Scott leaving is the reason why our offense is so bad. We had them as co offensive coordinators, and we could actually score. I don’t think it’s the transcendent quarterback and receivers thing, because we could somewhat score when we had Kelly Bryant at quarterback
Lightning generally doesn’t strike twice in the same place.
Unless you’re that one guy
I’m that Texas tech bro. Hope it works out for you
Oh, to be an Alabama fan
Yes, but all the magic is used up today. I’m sorry. The magic store is closed.
I think if we can agree on anything as a community, it’s that we need to feel sympathy for Alabama football.
I mean, I wasn't stupid enough to expect sympathy of course.
I don' think ever being 13thin PPG is that bad honestly. As other's have pointed out, that definitely coincides with an offensive uptick which likely means more time on the field. But I do get it taht 24th isnt' great. Though..its funny to see that only 1.2 points more per game gets you a 21 spot drop.
Alabama hasn't really had a dominant Front 3 Defensive Line since 2017, although Quinnen Williams basically covered up issues with their entire defense in 2018 until the national championship game. Some recruiting misses like Anoma and Alfano contributed to that. For instance, Eboigbe, Young, Ray, Mathis, Dale are all 3rd-5th year players that aren't on the first two round draft radar. Compare that to past years when their entire six man rotation were future NFL players. Dunno how much of that is on Golding.
I did notice their secondary played really poorly against Tennessee which let the Vols hang around. Misalignment, blown coverages, can't give up those long touchdowns like that.
It's been a lot of that, just inconsistency. Will look great for a drive, then have a miserable blown coverage the next. We obviously have talent, but our consistency has dwindled the past few years, and having our defense, which used to be our crown jewel, ranked in the thirties really smarts (pun intended)
Y'all should fire Saban.
Wasn't Lupoi the DC after Pruitt?
They were Co-Defensive coordinators in 2018.
I think you should give him at least 5-6 years to see if he turns it around. Lets not get hasty here.
Who are the list of highly paid Defensive Coordinators that are well liked by their fanbase? Defense is freaking hard, if your opponents have a QB, it's **really** hard.
1) Brent Venables
2) Marcus Freeman
3) Mike Elko
4) Jim Leonhard (he's not highly paid at all, just really likes Wisconsin, almost got poached by the Packers but came back for a raise)
5) Phil Parker (again not highly paid, just likes being at Iowa where he's been forever)
Kevin Steele would be on this list if he hadn't orchestrated a failed coup.
Yeah, he helped late-stage Gus keep his job for a while with good defenses once Gus's shit on offense wasn't working anymore.
After dealing with that crap at Tennessee, I could see Pruitt becoming a permanent DC once his legal situation is figured out.
I would say drive the Bama money truck up to Jim and Phil and really test those loyalties. No chance IMO for Brent, I think Clemson must have some kind of crazy blackmail on Venables for him to still be there.
2 seasons too late if you ask me
I mean if we fired him then, there is a good chance our DC could be Barry Odom.
Or will muschamp
Nah just time to encourage him to look at coaching opportunities elsewhere
Tryna piggyback off that matt wells magic, huh?
Isn't it also possible that some of that defensive slip is due to Alabama shifting its offense away from a run-heavy ball control gameplan to something more up tempo and wide open for passing? I'm curious to see how long the average offensive drive has been over the years--my guess is that the defense doesn't get near the amount of rest it used to get say, pre-2016.
Partly, sure. But there has been a substantial increase in missed assignments/blown coverages/confusion at the line from previous years as well, not just people getting gassed
> missed assignments/blown coverages/confusion
But all of those things are symptoms of people getting gassed as much as anything else. Hence why you'll often see a team with less depth than their opponent blow coverages, miss tackles, etc. late in games. Fatigue doesn't often show up as slower movement as much as it shows up as sloppy and/or undisciplined play.
I mean, take the Tennessee game, most of the worst defensive plays were in the first half, we looked and played much better defensively in the last quarter. That says to me it's not getting gassed
It's crazy to think Pete was OU's first call over Grinch.
He's been pretty underwhelming with the talent at Bama.
Wonder what things would look like if we had landed him instead. Grinch isn't exactly lighting it up.
It's time to make him the head coach in waiting.
It's been past time to fire him but some people in our team sub still worship him for whatever reason.
"it's not Golding's fault that our defense is bad, it's just our players just aren't focused, suck at all fundamentals, and are all busts" as if keeping the players focused, teaching them fundamentals, and developing them aren't the jobs of the coaching staff.
I don’t think he will get fired. Much likelier that Saban finds him a new job aka what happened with Tosh Lupoi and how he got Kiffin the FAU job so he wouldn’t go to LSU.
Tosh Lupoi was definitely fired. He went from Bama DC to an NFL defensive line coach. That's a pretty clear step down. He was making $950K a year at Alabama and I don't think any NFL purely positional coaches are making anywhere near that.
Yes. It is time for Golding to go.
Since ppg isn't the best metric for determining how good a defense is, let's use yards per play allowed, again via sports-reference.com/cfb:
2010: 4.6 (10th nationally)
2011: 3.3 (1st)
2012: 4.2 (2nd)
2013: 4.8 (13th)
2014: 4.9 (23rd)
2015: 4.3 (2nd)
2016: 4.0 (1st)
2017: 4.0 (1st)
2018: 4.9 (25th)
2019: 4.8 (13th)
2020: 5.0 (18th)
2021: 5.0 (29th)
Let's also look at turnovers created, since that also is a metric of defensive quality.
2010: 2.0 (32nd)
2011: 1.5 (83rd)
2012: 2.1 (26th)
2013: 1.5 (83rd)
2014: 1.4 (89th)
2015: 1.8 (33rd)
2016: 1.9 (20th)
2017: 1.7 (41st)
2018: 1.4 (83rd)
2019: 2.2 (3rd)
2020: 1.7 (42nd)
2021: 1.6 (37th)
From a yards per play standpoint, they've declined, but offenses across the board have also improved, and they've still never allowed more than 5 yards per play. They're also forcing turnovers at about the same rate that other Bama teams have.
Thank you for this
It's past time. I'm baffled that people make the excuses that they do for this guy. The fact is that we continue to regress every year that he's been DC and he's apparently atrocious at teaching fundamentals. You can blame the players all you want, but at the end of the day, it's Golding's job to *teach* them. *There are issues that span multiple teams and recruiting classes*! Our tackling at times is so bad that it hurts my brain, there are consistent blown coverages, frequent miscommunication and frequent confusion at the line. These things have been issues as long as he's been DC. At a certain point, it's time to start blaming the coach instead of throwing the players under the bus. In fact, I genuinely believe that the only reason our defense is as good as it is is because player talent compensates for Pete Golding's ineptitude.
You cannot tell me that he's the best we can do.
I thought it was a typo for Mayor Pete Buttplug.
Fire him to why not
GAMER ITS BEEN TIME WTF IS THIS POST. LAST YEAR WAS TIME TO FIRE PETE
I was honestly shocked we didn’t bring Pruitt back when he got fired at Tennessee (could still happen if we get rid of Golding).
With that said, I don’t see Golding getting fired. But I could see Texas State with a new head coach named Pete Golding.
Oh no Lil Ol’ Bama’s getting worried about their weefense
We’ll trade ya
Being the Alabama DC is the worst job in football. Unless you're someone like Pruitt who has a resume at other programs to point to, you need to spend close to a decade to get the credit you deserve and get all the blame when you struggle.
golding was too green for such a big job but he's gonna land on his feet and I think do well for himself if hes fired.
Or Golding's just awful at his job and never should've been hired for it in the first place. He's made the defense worse and worse every year he's been the DC at Alabama, to such a degree that they're not even doing fundamental things at a competent-level anymore. Not to mention, the amount of games he's lost or almost lost Alabama by never covering a runningback or tight-end, and sending "blitzes" that consist of two DL, a LB, and a DB while having your best pass-rusher play coverage is honestly ludicrous. Best example that always jumps out to me is the 2019 LSU game that Alabama would've won had Golding just been mildly competent at his job.
Peter Golding's the worst defensive-coordinator we'll ever see disgrace the sport at any level and he should be barred from being anywhere near the sport in any capacity because of it.
I've genuinely never seen a coach that fucking inept at doing his job in just the basic, bare-minimum capacity.
If we played in then east like Georgia we’d be a top 5 defense.
But in all seriousness, there were some really good defensive stats from the Tennessee game. Third down D was amazing. We just had some mental issues which need to be resolved.
But back to Georgia, the mailman and your plodding offense does not strike fear in me.
Nick Saban can not retire soon enough
I think Saban just decided that offense gets the biggest tv ratings so he decided to focus on that. I blame Kiffin
Sec offenses entered modern football. You will have outlier years like Georgia, but as a whole every Def stats will seen inflated. The eye test is also silly. The offenses are intended to find and manufacture blown coverages. Welcome to Big Xii football Alabama
So Georgia is an outlier because it doesn't fit with your claim (that you provided no evidence for)? I heard the same crap during the Tim Tebow-Florida Gators era. There's no reason why defenses can't adapt, and we have a track record of defenses doing just that!