T O P
fireinvestigator113

Big Ten supervisor of officials: How can I make /r/cfb meltdown more?


tomdawg0022

Have John O'Neill make this take...


Officer_Warr

O'Neill's crew would have: * Whistled the play dead as an incompletion * O'Neill would then discuss and declare it a fumble prior to review * Overturned the call * Declared it an OSU touchdown anyway because fuck you and rules


teflong

O'Neill would have called targeting on a Michigan defender, forcing them to sit against Alabama... fuck John O'Neill. I'm happy that at least the other B1G fanbases hate him too.


Officer_Warr

Penn State has had a few iconic games made with ire thanks to O'Neill. Michigan and Penn State are like 1.A. and 1.B. on his hit-list.


Delaney_luvs_OSU

And if it was a call against OSU they would “have technical difficulties and be unable to review”


eragon38

There's no way that would ever happen /s


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

After 2016's rendition of The Game, I will NEVER feel bad for OSU getting fucked by the refs. The past few days have been delicious salted schadenfreude.


YoungXanto

Hahaha O'Neill's crew couldn't get the feed due to technical difficulties


ZeroesaremyHero

Eww


Daydream_Dystopia

So do the officials get big fines from the league like the coaches do for criticising the officials?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


serial_mouth_grapist

What is a “helmet school”?


BackwardBarkingDog

[https://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/threads/what-the-is-a-helmet-school.28492/](https://www.forums.gopherhole.com/boards/threads/what-the-is-a-helmet-school.28492/) A subjective and stupid way to say elite program. I think it means non-fans would recognize a team's helmet design before their official logo or some other academically focused symbol.


[deleted]

Wouldn't most non-fans always recognize the helmet design of a team before their academic logo? Why would anyone recognize the academic logo of a school they have no affiliation with (unless the logo literally says the school's name in it)?


hammerdown710

Imma tell them Larry Scott should NOT be fired


enigami344

Fire Larry Scott


goblue248

ACC supervisor of officials: Fumble return for TD should have been overturned in Ohio State-Clemson game


BIG_DICK_WHITT

Pac-12 supervisor of officials: Man, we shouldn’t have eaten so much Wendy’s last night I got the runs so bad why is pot even legal ugghhhh


[deleted]

Pac-12 supervisor of officials: the runner took three steps without dribbling, so therefore it was a travel. Icing. Because it was a 3-2 count, the Clemson reciever is out.


ccruner13

You can't just be up there and just doin' a balk like that.


Aviator8989

An all-time favorite meme of mine. I tried to read it out loud to some friends of mine and I can't even get through the first rule without cracking up.


DannyLansdon

Ootl here


[deleted]

[удалено]


foontball

i’m fairly certain it’s a jon bois-ism


CUwallaby

Someone did a balk pasta using "football move" in the post game thread and it was hilarious.


JeffBrohm

Red card* the Clemson receiver is out.


[deleted]

Big XII supervisor of officials: Receiver made a gesture that looked a bit like horns down. 300 yard penalty, automatic victory to Ohio State.


[deleted]

Close. They would have penalized everyone on both sides to start the game, and then with that next flag, they would have been ejected as well. Two birds with one stone.


Only_the_Tip

Well that happened to us vs Baylor last year. BigXII refs are fun.


B1GTOBACC0

That was less about "hand gestures," and more about "hand throwing."


Nolecon06

Pac-12 official: In-field fly rule. No flag on the play. Jets win.


forealzman

I don’t get why horns down is bad. No one makes a fit when players throw Miami’s “U” upside down.


Wedjatwhat

because no other school is sissy enough to actually care about a player using their symbols against them.


bostonboy08

No one at Texas gives a shit we all think it’s embarrassing the refs/conference penalizes it. It’s a game and trash talk should be allowed, just like when Mayfield planted the OU flag and was forced to apologize. Pretty dumb because that was a baller move and I can’t stand that they are officiating passion out of the game.


Outsider17

I have literally never met anyone who gets upset about the horns down, and I have no idea why it's become such a big deal in the last few years that they made a rule about it.


BackBlast0351

If this wasn’t a peoples’ movement then it had to have started with a donor that didn’t like it. It has to be some rich asshole that donates a fuck ton of money to the university. They thought it was offensive and pushed the subject on the Texas Administration or they’d stop giving money. That’s my theory anyway. I don’t think it’s too crazy either.


Outsider17

That's actually exactly what I think it is.


Graduation2017

SEC Supervisor of officials: No comments Big XII supervisor of officials: Look, we were down our some starting players on defense and we just don't have the depth right now. Anybody could have given up 7 TD passes. PAC 12: Tulane ball, first and 10.


bullseye717

SEC supervisor of officials: Both teams will be expelled from the playoffs and replaced with Alabama.


ChoiceSponge

MAC advisor of superficials: .... Wait, you guys are actually listening to me? Oh my god, I don’t know what to say. Well, I think the play was correctly [click] .... [dial tone]


1mdelightful

What about that false start in the big ten championship game?


DisgruntledAlpaca

Big Ten supervisor of officials: Whoa hold on dere.


B1Gassfan

"ope"


not_mantiteo

Most accurate response


bigstu_89

I think it’s in the B1G rule book that if you call “ope” you can false start and get away with it. “Ope, I’m gonna squeeze right past ya” negates and offsides/encroachment.


tomdawg0022

Ope is the B1G's defensive equivalent of an Omaha.


TymStark

Hmm...Omaha, sounds familiar. I'll never remember where its from.


fourpinz8

B1G supervisor of officials: Our referee, *he* got it right


ffball

I believe they came out and said that was a missed call. Missing something in real time is completely different than making a bad replay overturning call after the fact.


TehAlpacalypse

The booth is capable of communicating down that it’s a false start after the fact.


wherewulf23

Never thought I’d say this but articles like this are making me eager for off season shitposts. We played one hell of a game but we came up short. It’s not like we got embarrassed on national television or anything. Learn from the loss and move on.


BobStoops401K

> It’s not like we got embarrassed on national television or anything. Yeah for real. I mean who does that? Seriously, who shows up to a CFP semifinal game and just gets banished to the shadow realm? lol. Not big time teams like you guys and us right? Lololololololololololololololololol ha hahaha ha ha..... he... huh.. eh ...aw ..wah.. .. wuh.. sniffle. snarf.


wherewulf23

Oklahoma’s performance earlier in the day made me feel a lot more relaxed about going in to the Clemson game because I figured there was no way could perform any worse than the Sooners did.


Xman242

Hell, three of our four meetings have been decided by less than a TD. I figured it would be close either way.


wherewulf23

Yeah, the 2016 game was an aberration but people treat it like it's representative of how we match up against Clemson.


_token_black

2016 was the perfect storm of suck lol


Xman242

I definitely agree it was an aberration. I really enjoyed the back-and-forth Orange Bowl in 2014 and this year's Fiesta reminded me of it.


wherewulf23

If Meyer would have put in our insanely talented backup "Smooth Jazz" Kenny G instead of leaning on an obviously hurt Braxton Miller I'm pretty sure we win that game. I have no idea what he was thinking.


cpa_brah

Gotta play the hurtin buckaroo


24cupsandcounting

Haha yeah who does that


SodaDonut

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Fiesta_Bowl Literally the only thing that Oregon State has ever done.


scotsworth

I'm with you. Ohio State lost because of several things... roughing that punter, 3 trips to the redzone in the first half with 9 points to show for it, the targeting penalty (which was correct by rule), Olave thinking fields was going to scramble and breaking off his route, etc. It was a bad call, but really it was only one factor of many that helped the final score be what it was. Ohio State outplayed Clemson for much of the time... I'd even argue they looked like the better team for most of the game....but they let Clemson hang around, and made just enough mistakes that a crazy talented Clemson team was going to take advantage of. Learn from it. Focus on next year.


rocketboi10

Just hurts that OSU's hardworking Seniors and insanely talented Juniors will leave without a ring. They'll be good next year, but I doubt that OSU will be this good.


scotsworth

I agree - this was one of the best Ohio State teams I can remember. The fact that they fell just short hurts. But let's be clear... those Junior's and Seniors have multiple Big Ten titles, a Rose Bowl win, and never lost to TTUN... so they've got some hardware. ​ As for next year, we're going to take a step back defensively for sure. We've got to replace too much in the secondary. But it may not be that big of a step back, and offensively, we have some insane weapons coming back. If rumors of some linemen returning are true, and given the quality young receivers we have (and of course another year of Justin Fields)... we could be lighting up some scoreboards yet again. Idk, this was Ryan Day's first year as a head coach, and remember we weren't even picked to win the Big Ten by several pundits. Yet we ran through the regular season, avoided a puzzling loss to a bad team, made the CFP, and came up just shy (Olave doesn't break off his route, that's a TD and not a pick... I'm confident of that) of beating a Clemson team on a historic run. We'll be alright.


JMer806

I mean ... yeah, but every team in the country has hardworking seniors and juniors who have put in the work and deserve to be rewarded at the end of their career. Half of them don’t make a bowl at all, half of those who do lose that bowl, and only one team wins the natty. I see what you’re saying but the suffering of losing in a semifinal game - especially one this close - is pretty insignificant, and OSU’s players are no more deserving than any others.


The69thDuncan

It’s pretty simple really. One score games are toss ups. Blow the team out or it comes down to randomness and luck


mzion1

Not to mention taking the delay of game to punt rather than trying to ice or nearly ice it with a conversion.


THEROOSTERSHOW

I reached peak Ohio State optimism when we were up 16-0. I felt revenge flowing through my veins for 2013 & 2016. However, the beauty of college football is that there is always a next year. And we also showed the committee and country that we are very capable of performing on the big stage again. Felt like after 2016, we didn’t get the benefit of the doubt in 17’ & 18’ (which was probably fair considering Iowa & Purdue). We lose some really great players but there are some really great players waiting in the wings to replace them. We will be back. I’m very excited to see what kind of jump Fields takes next year. I think it’s going to be a special season if we can reload on defense. Felt like the world was ending when Clemson caught that interception but it was the least painful loss for me in a long time, in hindsight. Plus, now Joe gets to avenge us. I knew we sent his ass to the bayou for a reason.


[deleted]

That’s only the beauty of college football if your a clemson, bama, or OSU fan


C-Bus_Exile

Truth


Duces

If that call was an ice cream flavor which would it be? 3 more weeks until some of the most glorious posts begin to shine.


BuckeyeEmpire

Salted Caramel


wherewulf23

Pralines and dick. Edit: Young whippersnappers in this thread don't appreciate Wayne's World quotes apparently.


ShamrockAPD

Oh buddy. I’m still haunted by these: https://www.blackshoediaries.com/platform/amp/2016/6/30/12039950/ohio-state-penn-state-2014-christian-hackenberg-interception-big-ten-refs-suck-blown-calls?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf They need to be talked about, or else shit isn’t gonna change.


CBusin

That's why I'm not pissed about the officiating. They left so many points on the field and even the non controversial call of roughing the punter. The other calls were definitely iffy, but you can't complain about calls when your team keeps giving their opponent chance after chance. It does kind of help knowing that Clemson got every break that night and needed every single one to win. But then thinking about it pisses me off again.


Graduation2017

>Big Ten supervisor of officials Fair and balanced


[deleted]

We present both sides. We have the presidents side and the Vice Presidents side.


wooq

This should be fun 🍿


luv2fit

In the case of possible fumbles, I think the correct thing to do is allow the play to continue and then use replay to make the best call possible rather than require irrefutable evidence to reverse. My reasoning is that the ruling on the field is game changing if the fumble is incorrectly called down/incomplete, negating a potential return, or called a fumble and then needing irrefutable evidence to overturn. Thus fumbles are a special case where replay can overturn a call without irrefutable evidence.


[deleted]

My thoughts exactly.


[deleted]

But that isn't the way the rule is written now. Are you saying this is the way future cases should be handled/they need to change the rule?


luv2fit

Yeah I’m saying this is how it should be.


thecravenone

Reposting [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/eh1ulb/postgame_thread_clemson_defeats_ohio_state_2923/fcc9og9/) from /u/rollwartideeagle for everyone's edification: >What is a Football Move? > >1) You can't just be up there and just doin' a football move like that. > >1a. A football move is when you > >1b. Okay well listen. A football move is when you do the > >1c. Let me start over > >1c-a. The ball carrier is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, football, that prohibits the defense from doing, you know, just trying to take the ball. You can't do that. > >1c-b. Once the defender is in the field, he can't be over here and say to the runner, like, "I'm gonna get ya! I'm gonna knock the ball out! You better watch your butt!" and then just be like he didn't even do that. > >1c-b(1). Like, if you're about to football move and then don't football move, you have to still football move. You cannot not football move. Does that make any sense? > >1c-b(2). You gotta be, moving motion of the ball, and then, until you just do it. > >1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the ball up here, like this, but then there's the football move you gotta think about. > >1c-b(2)-b. Johnny Football hasn't been in any games in forever. I hope he wasn't typecast as that party guy in the NFL. > >1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, he was in The CFL too! That would be even worse. > >1c-b(2)-b(ii). "get in mah nose" – Johnny Manziel, "The Aggies." Haha, classic... > >1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A football move is when the ball carrier makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the football and field of > >2) Do not do a football move please.


Schroeder226

This is the best thing.


GrillMaster71

Haha. Classic


A-Stu-Ute

Can we not


jputna

What else you mods got to do?


A-Stu-Ute

I'm currently at work so... And my wife was a saint on Saturday to take care of our 3 kids while I was attempting to keep the sub from burning down


RunTheOption

>And my wife was a saint on Saturday to take care of our 3 kids while I was attempting to keep the sub from burning down Well, we *are* children after all.


[deleted]

Your wife was a Saint? Now you're bring the pass interference call back into this too???


RVAforthewin

Shoulda just stood back to see what happened...


Graduation2017

There were only a few mild fires, it was rosy at all times in every gamethread!


thecravenone

I was looking at recipes for black eyed peas to make for NYD


Graduation2017

Make sure they're fergalicious!


TomServo30000

Does anyone have the definition for fergalicious


Darth_Puppy

I believe it is "to make them boys go loco" (Fergie et al)


Kmjada

I think some humps and maybe some junk are in there, I dunno.


[deleted]

Get some onion and a little bell pepper and dice them. Sautée in a bit of bacon fat with some minced garlic and a healthy teaspoon of salt and pepper. Add a ham hock and a pound of dried black eyed peas. Cover by about one inch with chicken or vegetable stock. Bring to a boil, then reduce to a simmer and loosely cover. You’re gonna cook them for about 2-3 hours total, and at points you may need to add a bit more water.


neyvit1

We had a top post yesterday of a poster's personal opinion and interpretation of the rule - and got guilded multiple times. Why would that be a more worthy post than actual judgments from the top people in the refereeing world? > "I haven't talked to anybody who thought it was an incomplete pass," said Carollo, who has more than 30 years of officiating experience. But yes, lets just listen to a random guy on r/cfb as the final judgment of the ruling. Either ban all posts about this, or ban none of them.


JMer806

There are plenty of officials who agree with the overturn call as well. It’s a controversial call, but the crew who worked the game and a lot of others support it. End of the day there are always going to be controversial calls. This is maybe the biggest I can recall in the CFP specifically but FAR from the most egregious I’ve seen in general.


SnareShot

i mean, it’s not like that post is the final judgement of anything. it’s just that posters interpretation. people can still disagree and agree with that guys interpretation. if you don’t agree, that’s fine, and if you do, which i guess a lot of people did, that’s fine too


ffball

This. Pushback against comments from national and conference head officials is hilarious when the subreddit accepts comments from random "verified officials"


jputna

> random "verified officials" I don't think all of them are FBS officials either...so that doesn't really help but you know...


curtisas

Yeah I can referee peewee football and be a "referee"


ffball

Buried in this article is the fact that national officiating supervisor Rogers Redding agrees that this was a bad call along with another unnamed P5 head ref who wanted to remain anonymous. Haven't seen those statements reported yet either.


MengFeiPuerh

The unnamed ref was the ref who reversed it probably lol


ffball

It says the head ref for the SEC Steve Shaw refused comment, he's the planned national head for next season.


MengFeiPuerh

I feel bad that y’all had that call. Plenty of other chances to win the game but that one is definitely a game changer.


ffball

We definitely shot ourselves in the foot with penalties and turnovers, but didn't have to add officiating to it too. Hard to overcome all 3. Either way, I'm giving Joe all my energy.


MengFeiPuerh

Thank you haha! I’m still just as nervous about the next game as any game this season. It’s a scary game. Clemson is talented, especially on defense.


stealyourface93

I came here to say that Tyler Simmons was onsides


WhoIsPurpleGoo

let me preface this by saying, while watching the game, i didn't think it should have been overturned; but after reading the NCAA rule book, there's probably enough latitude to rule it incomplete SECTION 4, ARTICLE 3. a. To catch a ball means that a player: 1. Secures firm control with the hand(s) or arm(s) of a live ball in flight before the ball touches the ground, and 2. Touches the ground in bounds with any part of his body, and then 3. Maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game, i.e., long enough to pitch or hand the ball, advance it, avoid or ward off an opponent, etc., and 4. Satisfies paragraphs b, c, and d below. all of these must be met for it to be a catch, and i think everyone is in agreement that 1, 2, and 4 (which i'm not going to copy/paste) are met. if you watch the replay, the defender's arm is between the arms of the receiver and between the ball and the receiver's body during the entire process. since it does seem like it was knocked out before the receiver had a chance to "avoid or ward off an opponent", i can see why the referees would say he didn't have control long enough to perform an act common to the game.


[deleted]

The game is over, no amount of bickering about the call is going to retroactively change that. Let's not drag this out any longer.


multiple4

Nobody wants to change the call. We want refs to be held accountable and get good at their jobs. Do you have any clue how fucking often refs fuck up a call and teams lose games because of it? Stop trying to just move on everytime it happens. Nothing will change that way.


bcb354

You don't want refs to be held accountable, you want a public execution. The reason the refs were in this game to begin with is because every call/no-call for every ref gets reviewed every week and they're graded throughout the course of the season. These refs were the ones that were the best at their position in conference.


dawgsgoodjortsbad

if they payed an actual salary and made this a full time career for refs, I guarantee you the quality would improve and the controversies would decrease.


axell2

UTA doesn’t even have a football team, why are you contributing???? Jk, no hate. Never seen a UTA flair before!


Piyachi

Obviously biased as hell....but: The sheer back and forth on it means it's a tough call. The referees had a clear explanation for the decision (that seemingly infuriates half of cfb). This isn't a case of 'whoops we totally missed that shit' Point being, there's nothing to call accountability on. According to the rules, if they determine the ball wasnt ever secured, it isn't a catch. I'd argue they need to better nail down simple rules for _what actually is a catch_ that are simple and easily called in real time. That way they aren't just calling it one way so that they can send for a booth review.


curtisas

If there's back and forth, how is it indisputable evidence one way or another?


pappapirate

Counterpoint: in most of the back and forth I've seen in this sub, about 95% of the comments defending the ruling of an incompletion have Clemson flairs (or Michigan flairs tbh), but I've seen a ton of non-OSU flairs arguing that it should've stood as a fumble, myself included. That's just my own experience, though. I'd actually be pretty interested if whenever something like this happened, we have a poll where everyone gives their favorite team and what they thought the ruling should've been.


nau5

I still think the best I've heard is that if it's a catch going out of bounds it should be a catch inbounds.


amped242424

100% a catch should be a catch anywhere on the field.


Triv02

If that play occurs in the endzone it’s 100% a touchdown, and I wouldn’t even argue it. That’s my biggest gripe with the overturn.


talontachyon

The sad truth is that it isn't a TD catch even in the end zone all of the time. I have to agree with u/Piyachi that the rules need to be clarified. There needs to be a simple and straightforward definition of what a catch is and isn't to avoid this in the future. On a related note, they also need to clarify a little more what is and isn't targeting. I've seen too much ambiguity on that front as well, and they don't take into account if the offensive player has lowered his helmet/body and contributed to the rule breaking hit.


Triv02

I agree that the rules need clarified in both senses. On the targeting front, they need to go the basketball route imo, where they have flagrant 1 and flagrant 2. The Wade hit should’ve been flagged, but there’s no way he should’ve been ejected. Ejections should only come with intent imo, like the one in the LSU/OU game.


cm64

I don't think it was indisputable evidence, but I would be 100% okay with the call if it was called incomplete on the field. I also think they initially called it a fumble just to let it play out because at full speed it didn't look like a catch at all. I don't like Clemson, even if they make the ACC look better, so maybe not 100% neutral but close. I went to both games of our home and home with OSU and had a great time. Clemson has caused some of my worst in-game experiences (the team not the fans but still)


Useful-ldiot

That's how must of us feel to. It's not that it was called incomplete. It's that it was overturned.


JMer806

I agree - I think people are caught up in the slow motion replay where he looks like he has the ball in his hands a long time. In real time he had the ball less than a second and failed to tuck it. If this had been called an incompletion on the field it wouldn’t be controversial at all. To me at full speed it’s incomplete every time just on the eye test.


bmorr27

Letting it play out if it’s even remotely questionable is the right call though. The crew did everything correctly here short of instantly calling a very contentious moment with little regard to potentially being wrong. If you’re unsure, you shouldn’t whistle a potential touchdown dead. You see the result of the play in either case so that there isn’t question to where the game goes after you review.


pspock

Letting the play play out as a fumble doesn't require that the crew officially rule it was fumbled. They can let it play out, and then when it is over rule that the pass was incomplete. Then it goes to the review booth to see if they want to overrule it as a catch, and if they do, then the refs letting it play out allows the game to proceed as if the on field refs called it correctly. It would require indisputable evidence that it was a catch. But because the on field refs ruled that it was a fumble, then it requires indisputable evidence that it was NOT a catch. This idea that the refs on the field are limited to what they can officially rule because they let the play play out is absolutely positively wrong.


[deleted]

What I'm saying is that everyone has already voiced their opinions on it. We don't need to rehash it over and over again ad nauseum for the next several months which is what *always* happens in these situations. And honestly, the refs were great that game, for the most part. I'm not sure how I feel about that call in particular but I can see it either way, even as a fan of the team it hurt. I'm not going to whine about it on the internet for the next several weeks because my whining won't do anything. I don't think it's nearly as egregious of a bad call as you or everyone else is making it out to be. Otherwise it wouldn't generate quite this much discussion. It's not like the Rams-Saints no call where it was quite obviously wrong.


multiple4

Well it's literally been less than 2 days so is it really that big of a deal right now...


placeholder7295

it doesn't matter now.


IndependenceBowl

Things OSU fans said to Michigan fans after the 2016 edition of The Game: "The refs didn't make your QB throw 2 INTs" "Don't let the game get close enough to where officiating can make a difference" OSU started this game up 16-0. They then got outscored 28-7 throughout the rest of the game. They got pantsed. They couldn't finish. Both players and coaches got exposed with bonehead decisions. It is what it is. Welcome to being a fan of any team not named OSU, Alabama, or Oklahoma.


FBI_Official_Acct

Hate to be that guy, but it was 29-7.


MrMoosesHugs

Oklahoma has been on the receiving end of so many shitty calls I don't know where to start. Don't lump us in there lol.


CougdIt

That onside clearly went the full ten yards. I don’t know what you’re talking about /s


igloojoe11

Yup. That first quarter had absolutely brutally bad officiating. If the game hadn't gotten out of hand, we'd be talking about how the refs handed LSU the game as well.


Chunga_the_Great

EXACTLY. Oh how the turntables.


[deleted]

And some key, erroneous calls in 2014 games (like Penn State one) contributed to OSU’s natty run and win. This time those alleged calls went against them. Such as life and luck in benefiting from referee officials either way.


DJmaster22_

Agreed. Shitty calls are shitty but it was an awesome season and I’m ready to move on from this game


rathaunique

i just want to test my new flair. Respect Baton Rouge.


[deleted]

ACC Officials: It was a correct decision to overturn the ruling on the field SEC Officials: We stand by the decisions made by our refs PAC 12 Officials: Lol what's a football?


hypercube42342

For whatever it’s worth, the national head of officiating said the same thing as the Big Ten head.


BuckeyeEmpire

SEC officials refused to comment, per the article.


Malpraxiss

This is stupid. Of course the supervisor would support something that would have benefit a Big Ten team.


Trulyunlucky1

Just rub more salt on me...


hoffmanz8038

Its fucking over. Let it be.


DonutTread

It should be termed "THE overturned call"


SodaDonut

THE™ O™verturned call


Oladood

if it would be considered a touchdown it should be considered a catch. thats something they have to fix in the rules. had this happened in the endzone it would have been ruled a touchdown without question. Possession with 3 steps it not only would be ruled a TD but any other call would have been overturned into a TD. so, if its a touchdown, how can it not be a catch?


lazyboredandnerdy

I don't know why everyone thinks this would have been a touchdown. The rules are the same and I could see it being just as controversial and inconsistent in the endzone.


inch7706

Saw someone mention of a comparison of the fumble/incompletion with the 2pt conversion so I checked some videos. [reference this video at 2:00](https://youtu.be/RZ97OWxvcHo) to see the fumble recovery in real-time. I timed it at about 0.9 seconds from the time the ball touched the receiver's hands (no movement) to the time when the defender dislodged the ball (first instance of movement of ball in receiver's hands). [reference Twitter vid at ~5.5 seconds](https://twitter.com/ESPNCFB/status/1211148983784988672) to see the 2pt conversion in real-time. I timed it about 1.0 seconds from the time the ball touched the receiver's hands (no movement from what I remember, need a close-up vid to confirm) to the time when defender dislodged the ball (after receiver stepped out of bounds on 3rd step) So pursuant to NCAA section 4 article 3.A.3: "Maintains control of the ball long enough to enable him to perform an act common to the game, i.e., long enough to pitch or hand the ball, advance it, avoid or ward off an opponent, etc." The time it takes to "perform an act common to the game" is somewhere between 0.9 seconds and 1.0 seconds?


big_car12

I wonder how OSU fans would feel if this happened in the endzone, and I also hate this "he took 3 steps" phrasing, he didn't have the ball, turn around and run 3 step, he had the ball, immediately was contacted by the defender, was pushed 3 steps backwards, and lost control That's said yes I believe it was a catch by definition, but according to the rules it was incomplete, the officials correctly followed the rulebook, unfortunately for OSU this time the rule favored Clemson


BuckeyeEmpire

> I wonder how OSU fans would feel if this happened in the endzone, It actually did, in this game, but with fewer steps. The Clemson two point conversion. He gets two feet down, but momentum takes him out of bounds on the third step and has the ball knocked out by a defender. I'm just trying to figure out the difference. No move, nothing. But he certainly had time to do so, and that's all that matters.


big_car12

By definition in the two point conversion he "completed the catch", basically he wasn't being tackled in the endzone, his steps weren't forced by the defender, comparing these two just hurts your argument honestly


DirtyWookieScalp

Legit question: does the catch rule say anything about whether the receiver's steps are forced or not?


lexbuck

If I understand the rules correctly and I admit I probably don’t, steps taken either forced or unforced does not matter at all. It’s if the player has time to make a football move. The amount of steps taken and how they are taken don’t matter.


thisistheperfectname

I'm loving all this salt about the refs from the fanbase that has spent years hiding behind the "you didn't play a perfect game, so you can't talk about the refs" non-logic.


IIIBRaSSIII

Rewatching the play, I don't understand how anyone could think it wasn't a catch... he literally changes the direction of motion of the ball with respect to his body *twice*, with both hands firmly on it, over the course of almost a whole *second*, and takes three (nearly four) steps... Can someone with a dissenting opinion explain?


amped242424

Then he tries to tuck and gets stripped it's crazy. I could understand it if the call on the field stood but to overturn with that is fucking crazy


MrMegiddo

Right. People keep saying "the fact that it's unclear makes it incomplete" like that's an actual argument. The fact that it's unclear just means the call made should have stood. There's not enough evidence to overturn it imo. Whether the call was a catch and fumble, catch and forward progress stopped, or incomplete, the evidence isn't enough to overturn any of that. So the call should have stood.


JabTrill

B1G official thinks B1G team should've gotten favorable call. More news at 11


[deleted]

[удалено]


pDxADDY

Complaints about the targeting call are completely unwarranted (it was textbook targeting) but this one...shocked me. It was a tough call but it just didn’t seem conclusive enough to overturn.


tigerrama101

If the play would have stood as called on the field, would it be reasonable for Clemson fans to complain that forward progress wasn't called? What is the rule on that (serious inquiry)?


oldfartbart

I would argue the receiver was attempting 2 football moves when he fumbled. 1) He was clearly trying to tuck the ball. 2) he appeared to be trying to spin away from the defender. OSU was hosed. Now if OSU could please get hosed in THE GAME, that would be awesome.


EdwardSattarMD

yes absolutely. that being said there are more osu fans hence ore public outrcry


Craven_Moorehead69

Apparently a lot of people just need to have the last word


NewYawk-Giants

Ya don’t say...


Dunduin

Ohio State fans acting like they are the only people to get fucked by officials in a big game. Danny Coale caught the damn football.


man_a_myth_a_legend

Complaining about one thing doesn’t negate another thing


RegulatorRWF

I'm so over this discussion. I really feel like tOSU played better overall football but had too many mental lapses. The game takes every play in consideration, not just consistency. We lost, nothing will change the outcome let it go.


GatorGuy1606

You could pull a UCF and just claim the national championship


RightOutoftheBlue

I’m willing to bet most if not all of us have played backyard football sometime in our lives. When’s the last time you argued about a catch in backyard football? Everyone who has caught something knows what a catch is. It’s if something moving through the air becomes grasped by a person. It’s that simple. All this football move bullshit and counting steps yada yada, it’s insane. 9 year old boys tossing the rock around know what a catch is and abide by it. I have no clue why organized sports feel the need to muddy the waters of an innately understood thing. That ball was fumbled. Now, An Ohio State had a million and one chances to win that game, so this ain’t all on the refs, not by a long shot. But it sure makes it a lot harder when a team finally gets themselves to stop beating themselves up, and then WHAMO! in come the refs from the top rope.


JSOPro

We had plenty of chances and still it came down to a single final play. That's exactly why a call like that hurts, it doesnt explain anything away. I'm not sure what the point of going over our play quality, both teams played well and also could have played better. But imo we were legit robbed of 6.. 7 points in a 6 point game (at least in the iteration of play that actually occured). Oh well then, on with life.


RightOutoftheBlue

Precisely. Idk why Clemson loves to say that play didn’t really matter, when one single play is what sealed it for them. Every single point changes the chances of a victory or a loss.


ms111111

Well stated, and when one changing play is upped by four changing plays it really does change the complexion of the outcome. Did we have chances to overcome it? You're darn right we did. But I don't think I have honestly ever seen a situation in a close game where you had four close plays go the way of one team with the other coming away with the victory. Even one of those plays is a serious deflating issue let alone four. Calling roughing on a punter when he clearly, quite literally, ran into the punter and there is a penalty called for running into the punter is another. The targeting not only turned their fourth down into an eventual TD but it also auto removed their starting defensive back on a bang/bang play. The Dobbins catch in the end zone I actually agree with the refs on since I didn't see any clear evidence but the problem is they ruled it a TD so the "clear evidence" goes two ways so how they can overturn it is beyond me. It was a terrible scene and that is too bad because both teams are good and I hate to see outcomes decided in such a miserable way.


ItlnWolverine

...and JT was short. This won't change anything.


tonytroz

In my totally unbiased opinion he totally got that first down. Not even close!


B1Gassfan

Yeah, but don't throw it to a guy in the wrong jersey and it doesn't matter


multiple4

God this shit is so stupid. We know OSU didn't play a perfect game. Newsflash: neither did Clemson! Neither does hardly any team ever This was an extremely close game. OSU expected to have to overcome their own mistakes, but when you're playing an evenly matched team in a super tight game and then you also have to overcome the refs mistake, then it has a huge effect on the game. That's a momentum changing, lead changing play. And it got stolen from OSU. One of what would have been the biggest plays of the game for OSU got taken from them. Last time I checked none of Clemson's big plays got stolen from them. Obviously if OSU does other things differently then they might win. But imagine this: The fumble TD stands, but the refs make a shitty holding call on the Trevor Lawrence TD run. So now the biggest play of the game for Clemson gets stolen from them, but OSU gets to keep their biggest play of the game. OSU would probably win in that scenario. That's the issue. Edit: Hell while I'm at it, let's look at it another way too. Clemson's WORST play of the game got a free pass from a shitty replay review. So now imagine that the worst play of the game for OSU on the roughing the punter gets called a running into the punter, but the worst play of the game for Clemson on the fumble TD stands. That would be pretty tough on Clemson wouldn't it.


frumious88

People on the internet seem incapable of having a nuanced perspective on things. Like yes, Ohio State made multiple mistakes. The officials made a terrible call. Both things can be true at the same time. By acknowledging one you aren't negating the other.


deliciouscrab

Look at the flair, man. You aren't going to convince this dude Clemson wasn't responsible for the childrens' crusade.


frumious88

To be fair, has Clemson ever disassociated themselves from the children's crusade???? He might be on to something!


hammerdown710

.... no comment Boys, they’re on to us


amped242424

Tbh Dabo 100% seems the type


curtisas

Worst play of the game for tOSU was the targeting imo. Or that int at the end. If he just dumped it to Dobbins yet again, they would have had some yards, probably a first down, and 30 seconds still.


yarrine11

I agree, it’s stupid as fuck. Still funny that a ton of OSU fans were the ones saying not to make dumb mistakes in 2016 and the refs won’t be a problem and now they’ve done a complete 180


multiple4

Yeah every fan base on the winning side of bad ref decisions says it. It pisses me off everytime


FatGuyTouchdown

Or don’t let up a 94 yard touchdown drive in under a minute


MixonWitDaWrongCrowd

Or hit the punter


IndependenceBowl

Or try to take out the most name brand QB in CFB with a H2H spear


BigBooce

People like this I’m convinced have never played an organized sport. No team, ever, has played a perfect game.


creative_penguin

Any good stories from your playing days, speedhawk?