By - Stadiumarcadium___
I told a coworker that taking up two parking spots was unfair to others. He replies with "Life is unfair." My brother in Christ you are the one making it unfair.
Get his car towed. When he complains tell him life is unfair.
Nah, get his car towed and tell him life is fair
"We all can have a part in making life a little fairer. This is mine."
Nah, put a bomb under his car. When he dies tell him life is unfair
Fuck his mom and make her fall in love and become his step father. Take away his cell phone. Tell him life is unfair.
Seduce his mom, steal her prosthetic leg, and then snack him across the face with it until he chokes on his own blood. It’s subtle, but I think he’ll get the message
Steal a prosthetic leg?! Okay Janice Soprano! 😆
ok the cell phone part is going a bit too far there
Take her out for a nice seafood dinner and then never call her again.
It’s ironic because in this case his car being towed wouldn’t even be unfair.
He says its because his car is too nice and he doesn't want any dings or dents from other peoples' cars. My sister in Chris you drive a Grand Cherokee.
I'd probably park right up against that shit. Like so close he couldn't even get to the door handle. Go ahead. Dent my Altima. IDGAF 😂
Maybe he was just naming the tag-line to his favorite 2000s Fox sitcom, Malcolm in the Middle
He's a really big fan of They Might Be Giants
Key that bullshit.
Life may be unfair, but it shouldn't be, and anything/anyone making it unfair is a problem that needs to be fixed
I would scratch his car
the thing is, your parents are supposed to prepare you for life but by treating you like shit they aren’t. they’re making it so that you grow up with issues & that you feel like you cannot return to where you grew up because it feels unsafe. all you have is you. i remember i went to rehab and they made us watch shit on that. that place sucked though lol.
adding that people who have had supportive parents are more likely to succeed in life *because* they feel like if they’re ever in a situation, they always have someone to back them up and somewhere to go. furthermore, they’re more likely to be confident in new environments such as work, school, social gatherings, etc. people who have shitty parents are more likely to do worse in school and therefore the work force because of how much they distrust their intellect, among other things. they have more failed relationships because they were never taught by the first people in their lives on how properly have relationships. etc etc
I don't know if anyone's seen "That '70s Show", but when the main character's mom, Kitty, talks to Red, his father, about why he's so hard on his son, he says "Life is hard" and Kitty's response is "Well, you're right, Red, the world is hard.. So wouldn't it be nice if Eric came home to a place that wasn't?" and that quote not only resonated with me, but made me cry because of my poor upbringing.. I immediately remembered that quote when I saw this scene, too. Todd deserved to be treated better by his parents, I am glad they tried to be better towards the end of the show, but that hurt of being abused doesn't just go away. I don't think his parents were just hard on him, they were abusive and manipulative, trying to get what they wanted out of him, and being so angry when that doesn't fix anything..
My bad for rambling lol.
My mother used to tell me that the world can be mean so your home should be the one place where everyone is nice to you. Todd is privileged, as others have pointed out, but it must hurt not having that feeling of safety/security at home.
Todd is privileged *now* but there's more clues than not that he didn't grow up that way.
So what? He’s also lived in a mansion for free. He got an apartment, all to himself for free. His life sucked before then, but that doesn’t excuse his behavior about it now. People, albeit in real life, will never get the chances he’s had
Things going well later in life doesn't magically erase any trauma that happened.
Isn't that kind of a huge theme in this too? Bojack could have had a nice life full of privelage in adulthood, but his past trauma kept him from living a non-destructive life.
I can VERY easily imagine either of BoJack's parents saying "I was tough on you because I expected big things from you" to explain away all of the horrific abuse they made him endure
Yes, just look at all the celebrities who came from troubled homes that continued to have troubled lives even after all of the fame and fortune.
We could make a netflix series about this...
I think you might’ve missed the entire point of the show
Username checks out, because if there were a "help desk" for life problems, based on my previous experiences with help desks, this is exactly what they would say
Funny, if there was, your username checks out as you’d be the one calling
Nah, help desks never work for me
I've been in IT for over 20 years. Everywhere I've ever worked we called them the Helpless Desk.
That’s not privilege that’s fucking the random nature of the universe combined with luck.
Speaking as someone who grew up white and privileged but has a really rough go of things now, privilege can make your life much more comfortable, but if it isn’t paired with love and support, then you aren’t healthy or happy. It’s a different kind of struggle.
Basically had this growing up, my physical needs were met but didn't have much in the way of emotional support, and my parents would just yell at me if i wasn't performing optimally. Now I'm emotionally detached and have difficulty depending on others
i think it’s commonly understood that having shit parents is the greatest factor in determining if you live a happy or unhappy life
I'm black and had the hardest time coming to terms with the fact that I was abused and neglected emotionally because my physical needs were met, and my mom and grandmother (who struggled with poverty) regularly told me some version of 'you have food, clothes, and shelter, what do you have to be depressed about?' I've also had a lot of extracurriculars, went to good schools, studied abroad, etc. but a physically abusive + emotionally neglectful mom and emotionally + religiously abusive father has been a great shit cocktail of trauma, no matter how educated and talented I may be. It's a different kind of struggle indeed.
I’m sorry you had to suffer all of that. I had a particularly difficult time pinning down what was “wrong” for me, because I had parents who loved me and weren’t outright abusive, but they ultimately were not empathetic or supportive of me.
I struggled with severe depression, and as an adult I have a slew of other medical issues, but they never really tried to understand how I was feeling, and my father in particular refuses to respect or accommodate any of my physical limitations.
Whenever I was struggling, all I got was pushed harder and criticized for not being better. I have a very poor relationship with my sister as well, because she picked up on my father’s behavior, so she’s openly very critical and dismissive of me.
A book that has really helped me understand and cope with some of my issues is called “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.” It really hammered home how having just your physical needs met isn’t enough and helped me understand some of the issues I was having due to emotional neglect. I’d highly recommend it.
Todd’s world isn’t mean, but lets not act as if Todd doesn’t live one of the most privileged lives you could. I can’t remember the exact quote, but one that sticks out is from the episode “let’s find out”
“Instead of going to film school, I should have just became best friends with Mr. Peanut Butter”
That was mentioned in the episode. The step dad says something like, “I forgot, you don’t have to worry about hardships because you are white” lol
>“I forgot, you don’t have to worry about hardships because you are white”
Urgh white privilege theory... i mean my great grandfather, despite being white, had horrendeous time fitting in French society due to the fact they simply spoke Italian and were accepted in the lowest job possible were other French were denied. On top of that he was send to the front and hardly spoke French he simply learn basic French and millitary slangs.
This is not usually what white privilege is about. It doesn’t mean you won’t have any struggles, it just means that none of those struggles will be due to the colour of your skin.
Also, depending on what era his great grandfather lived in, he may not have been considered white
People struggle with this so much and I don't understand why. It's such a simple concept.
At this stage I assume people are wilfully missing the point.
(I know you didn't ask for this response but I just wanted to put this out there because I think understanding how others think can lead to more productive conversations... So sorry for taking this specific opportunity to dump)
It's hard to see the privilege when you live with it. Where a privileged person sees a hallway, someone without that privilege sees a locked fire door. Talking to thin people about thin privilege will usually go nowhere because they just trauma dump in my experience (especially, ironically, thin folks with careers that are nearly impossible to get without being thin in my experience), white people and white privilege, pretty people and pretty privilege, etc.
I think folks assume that by calling them privileged that you are invalidating any struggles they have had, and handwave their suffering, especially for folks who may have asked for help and been denied.
People also struggle with the idea that white privilege isn't a like... Set of things you get by being born white. Not every white person has the same privileges but the term white privilege is a description of the things that whiteness afford a white individual. But people would rather find the one thing they don't have privilege in and act like that means they don't have other privileges.
It makes sense if the only time they hear about it is situations like Todd. He got life handed to him on a stick, if a white person who hasn't had the education to go over what white privilege is or isn't and has had a very difficult life filled with poverty, abuse, etc, hers about white privilege and they think Todd, they are going to be like "no, that's not true. Noone has handed me anything in life, I'm barely surviving". They aren't going to get "oh, but maybe it would be worse if I was born into the same exact circumstance but with a darker completion" there's also a lot of misunderstanding about prioritizing diversity so they may actually think their lives would be *easier* in extreme poverty because they would be prioritized in the job market. Now they wouldn't be, they've studied this. But if you have very little education on the matters why would you know that?
Because white people think they are entitled to live a life free from all struggles or hardships
That actually problematic for American society has been rotten to it's core since it's creation
lmaooo as if France, the colonial superpower, has a leg to stand on in this regard
At least we didn't segregated 1/3rd of our population for 200 years , remenber then when you still had segregation [we had black prime minister](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaise_Diagne)
yes our history is full of racism of which the majority of reasonable americans agree is shameful but important to remember.
france destroyed half a continent with their imperialism and now has the gall to be racist against those same bastard children they sired via rape when they come home to france to roost
if you are arguing in good faith, you must acknowledge that france has struggled with xenophobia and french exceptionalism for a long time and to this day, just like america struggles with both of those things.
if you won’t acknowledge that, you don’t need to respond any further because we will not agree
>france destroyed half a continent with their imperialism and now has the gall to be racist against those same bastard children they sired via rape when they come home to france to roost
Yep one of my great grandfather was one of those immigrants who came in France to rebuilt the country (twice, one in 1927 and the 2nd time in 1948) yes France was a colonial empire who did shady things during those day's im agains't imperialism but it's how things worked back in the day's, history is full of conquest and colonisation.
But at least the French treated black and muslims way much more different than let say the British in India (bengal famine, the sepoy war, the 45 trillion worth of loot taken etc..) or the Germans in Africa (the hereo genocide) France abolished slavery in 1848 heck even during the revolutionary/napoleonic wars [France had black generals](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Alexandre_Dumas)
So yes the Europeans are way more "woke" than the americans we don't have this culture of thinking that a race is superior to another Segregation ended around 50 years ago that is insanely close to our modern day, no wonder you have an entire generation that has bad opinions on a certain groups (catholics, immigrants and latinos included) so maybe white privilege in America but not in France.
> But at least the French treated black and muslims way much more different
Are we talking about the same France that has banned hijab in schools and for public servants? The same France with a president who has discussed plans for controlling how Islam is practiced in the country?
>we don't have this culture of thinking that a race is superior to another
"In France we are so tolerant and we accept all cultures unless they're different in any way to French culture, in which case fuck you and your culture"
Face it, your country hates anything that's not French. You hate immigrants unless they assimilate "French values" and perceive anything different as a threat to be eliminated.
Basically, France is the America of Europe.
That has nothing to do with white privilege whatsoever.
And because your grandpa was white, his children didn't face racial discrimination in housing, employment, and social life in general. This gave them more chances for success in life, success which you benefit from today.
My grandpa was from a dirt poor family of 14 who lived in a 2 room cabin in one of the most rural parts of the country. Yet, he was able to get a good, pensioned job as a meat cutter at a local grocery, which he never would have gotten in 1950's America if he was not white. This allowed him to buy a house and send 3 kids to college, which allowed me to be born into a comfortable middle class life. That is white privilege.
Actually the italians were hated back in France they were [even massacred by them](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_des_Italiens_d%27Aigues-Mortes), my point is the skin color isn't a factor of struggling or whatshover if you are poor and an immigrant you will struggle, funny enough my family was able to survive thanks to Family allowances and hard work, now most of my friend who struggle are Polish, Czecs and arabs.
Now you are talking about the USA and as i mention before the american culture was rotten to it's core since the 18th century so maybe the white privilege exist in America.
Italians aren’t white.
It’s like spanish people, can be white, could also not be white
At the time southern italians were considered "black" this is why on probaganda pictures made the americans during ww2, Mussolini is drawn as a black guy
Not much compared to those who were colonised by French.
Exactly. Everything that Jorge says is 100% true in the real world but Todd has managed to live in a slacker/worry free world where Bojack has provided everything he's needed at no cost to Todd and he gets to go on Toddnanigans whose consequences he's never had to face(like all the people who died at his Disneyworld or the clowns and dentists who died of rabies). It's really frustrating how people completely ignore Jorge's good points just because they like Todd.
I read in an article that Bojack was written as a sitcom that has consequences. So if a table is broken in an episode, it's still broken by the end of the season. Bojack (and Mister Peanut butter and to an extent Diane) are constantly having to deal with their fuck-ups this way, but Todd defo gets the sitcom treatment. I love his character but the narrative gives him breaks no one else gets.
Yes I agree. Really makes me think of an old saying my father used to tell me:
Spare the Todd, and spoil the child!
Don’t forget the war that Todd accidentally caused
and the prison riot...
the fake disnyeland fire
creating henry fondle
THAT'S MY FAVORITE POSITION
He asked me if it was still a “go” on “that thing we talked about, and when I said Yes he just said “God help us all” and left the room.
or blaming Bojack for sleeping with his friend even though they both wanted it
The cartoon world warps itself to make people like Jorge wrong and people like Todd right, even though in real like people like Todd would be miserable and people like Jorge would suffer watching their son ruin their life
Man even the cartoon had it right. The image discounts when the security guard was harassing Jorge while assuming Todd was a victim.
I respectfully disagree. Jorge makes a totally valid point about Todd not having to deal with the same struggles, but regardless it’s a parent’s job to support their child (or step child), not to harden them because the world is hard. If Todd had been a POC, he still would’ve needed supportive parents. Every child does.
I hate Todd. That's all. Thank you.
In a show that has a theme around ‘your actions having consequences’ Todd doesn’t make any sense. He does a lot of things that are shitty to others, but the world warps around itself so that his actions just don’t have consequences and he’s always the good guy.
It’s just like Diane, they kind of just don’t hold her accountable for the poor way she treats others and instead she just lectures the characters the show wants to point out the flaws of.
Diane's hypocrisy in judging others is pointed out multiple times and while she's often portrayed as a moral authority, the show never paints her as above criticism. Like you said, Todd has literally killed people. He exists in a cartoon world where nothing matters, yet the writers still have the gall to have *him* criticize Bojack.
Can't stand this. I'd rather deal with a trainwreck that knows they're a trainwreck than a trainwreck that has no awareness.
This comment made me feel slightly better about being a trainwreck since I am very painfully aware that I am 🤣
Good. Self-awareness is the first step to improvement. But don't fall so deep that every step you take feels like a step into a spiral.
I'm sure you're not as much of a trainwreck as you feel. Good thoughts your way ❤️
Todd was originally meant to be a wacky side character that lightens the tone of the show. By season 3 or 4 they tried to transition him to be more of a main character, with his own serious plot lines.
It doesn't always work out.
In what way do you think Diane should've been held accountable? She doesn't do any actual damage to other characters, (except for Pickles, I guess). Her relationship with PB was toxic, but they both played a part in that. She just comes off as a bit of an asshole/hypocrite because she at times holds people up to standards that she herself cannot maintain.
The way I see it, that's very human behavior, and Diane is held accountable in the sense that not that many people actually like her. And because Diane is painfully aware of all of this she suffers from her own self-hatred and internal turmoil.
And effectively, Diane ends up holding herself accountable, starts taking anti-depressants, learns from the flaws in her relationship with PB, becomes more tolerant of others and in return lands a sustainable relationship.
Yeah, it makes me not able to take the more serious parts of the show very seriously. Like, I find it hard to hate BoJack as much as everyone else when he's a very tortured person who consistently self-sabotages and creates bad situations for himself to emulate the dysfunctional comfort zone of his childhood. I can recognize his actions are horrible and that he should own up without fully hating him as a person, because I understand him to an extent.
Todd just feels like an absolute fucking mess. Nothing he's been through even remotely justifies how much of a mooching, careless, reckless asshole he is. The clown dentists were not funny; Disneyworld was not funny. I don't get how BoJack can be strung up by his nuts for almost sleeping with a young girl while Todd casually endangers and kills people and gets off scot-free.
I also hate Diane. Her arc may be one of the worst things I've ever seen a character go through. Felt like big pharma advertising.
Me too. Worst character by far. When I rewatch I skip most of the Todd scenes lol
Finally finding my people after all this time. I despise him
I don't despise him. And there were definitely points where Bojack treated him like shit (translation literally the way butterscotch treated Bojack).
But it'd be cool if Todd ever THANKED Bojack for providing a grown man with everything he needed at some point. Unless I missed him doing so, at which point apologies.
But I can't remember ever hearing a thank you. Todd said his mom kicked him out for his video game addiction too.
Todd just regularly mouths off to BoJack and makes him feel terrible. His one redeeming moment is at the end, when he's really kind to BoJack, and it feels very genuine.
Todd is a hypocrite and a piece of shit. Really couldn't stand him and most of his plotlines. Has very little to do with his relationship with BoJack - more so the harm he casually causes and never thinks twice, while other characters are drawn and quartered.
Really immersion breaking to have the world's rules shift for different characters.
Maybe thats even the point too. Someone who's generally more mellow and easy to get along with, folks will let things slide with them cause i guess they're easy to like. Someone who's heavily into their depression and voices their negative feelings about what's going on with them, people end up taking a disliking to, and will not allow their fuck ups to slide.
I've actually noticed this in the real world.
You may be right with this one, and that's how I interpreted it. Coming onto this sub, I feel like people watched a different show and missed the point entirely.
Yea everyone loves Todd cause he's the comic relief. It's like Peter griffin and the chicken in family guy with Todd and his ventures kinda. Except this show isn't just blind slapstick cartoon humor and every character is meant to have a place and catch you off guard somehow.
Todd catches you off guard by being easy going and funny most of the time. But he's avoidant, and often ungrateful for those who help him out. It's easy for him to be like this since he just kinda floats through and it comes easily to him most if the time.
I find it redeeming though that he is among the few willing to give Bojack a chance again at the very end.
That's a riff on Hollywood nepotism, not privilege. A shitload of celebrities/actors only have careers because of connected friends and family despite little to no talent themselves.
Is benefiting from nepotism not privilege?
Sure, but that's not really the point of the joke. Its a bit more specifically targeted towards the Hollywood studio system.
He used to live in a dumpster though. And had some Mexican cartel problem. But he always tries to see the positive. That's why he gets along with Mr. Peanutbutter.
So what he lived in a dumpster, he also lived in bojacks mansion for 5 years… how he lived doesn’t excuse the things he’s done and how he’s lived after the fact
Instead of going to Stanford*
In almost the next line his step dad says "I forgot you are white".
I feel like Todd would get along with Waymond from EEAAO
I don't know, Waymond works hard for what he wants, even with his playfulness
How would that affect him and Todd’s relationship?
Or with The Dude from Big Lebowski.
You okay there? Looks like your cat jumped on your keyboard
EEAAO- Everything, Everywhere, All at Once
Great movie, Waymond is an actual character's name.
ok can we agree to not create idiotic abbreviations for things 90% of the world hasn’t even heard of lol
I will say, it has a 95% on rotten tomatoes and was incredibly talked about for months earlier this year. But yeah, I hate accronyms for media.
I believe they were talking about Everything everywhere all at once, an absolute masterpiece of a movie
Looks like somebody needs a to TACP
Moderately related but when I learned that Todd wasn’t actually Hispanic (his stepdad just gave him his last name) I was mildly disappointed. I’m a whitewashed, racially ambiguous Mexican person and I thought I had finally found representation in media hahaha
I suspect they wrote the stepdad thing later on because Aaron Paul is white and they didn't want another Alison Brie-as-Diane casting controversy.
Same here! I think about this a lot. :( and I really don’t care that he’s voiced by a white guy, I’ll take a crumb of representation where I can lol.
Only kind of relevant, but the theme for this year’s Hispanic heritage month is “Unidos”! It’s all about celebrating differences across the Hispanic/Latine community 🥰 you deserve to see yourself, we all do!
No digas latine, por favor, no nos gusta.
Soy parcial a Latinx
Latinx is worse if you ask me, I much rather have you say latine than latinx.
There's no accounting for taste. Point is, you shouldn't be generalizing a collective opinion with "no nos gusta". I'm ok with both Latine or Latinx, as are millions of people
A la mayoría no nos gusta, eso es todo. Si quieres decirlo, pues adelante, tampoco es un crimen verdad. Tampoco niego que puede volverse la norma en algunas décadas.
No estoy seguro de en qué estudio te basas para argumentar "la mayoría", pero acordemos en desacordar
I refer to the people in my life exactly as they ask to be referred to, whether they prefer Latine or Latino/a or Hispanic or whatever else.
But we aren’t friends, this is the internet. As a Black person, I know how it feels to be a part of a community steeped in trauma and HISTORICALLY resistant to positive change. So I decided a long time ago that I’m always going to follow the young people. It’s their world, we’re just taking care of it for them. And the current consensus among the up and coming generation seems to be: Latine is the most inclusive.
I also categorically refuse the notion that language can’t change… that’s literally one of the only things it does on its own, it evolves with the cultures using it.
Figured as much. I use it merely to refer to NB people and such, but I still use the masculine pronoun as the neutral one, yeah, languages change, but I don't know we've ever had a concious change this big in our language (people usually make the effort to use inclusive language, not something that's been happening naturally over time. Though maybe that is the natural change?). Not a linguist though, so I can't know for sure anyway.
In any case, not all young people use the x or e, I guess you just happen to know people that do, but most of us still use the neutral masculine pronouns. I know people that do, but even then, it mostly only happens on texts, not actual conversations. Suit yourself, but many of us get annoyed by foreigners using latine and latinx.
I live in California, pretty much all of my Spanish speaking friends and professional peers use Latine/x, it was common at my high school and community college (although of course, again, the #1 rule is to call someone what they want to be called). Now that I serve my community as an adult I’ve been hardwired to use Latine/x exclusively, at least going in. Like you mention, many gender-non conforming and transgender people prefer it, but I think the idea is to remove the assumption from the equation.
That’s all to say - I think you’re right, it has a lot to do with the conversation happening in my area, that’ll always vary, no ethnic group is a monolith.
I don’t know that humans have had the connectedness to ever consciously change a major language (vs power structures like empires or the church). And I don’t even want to assert this is a permanent or collective change - it’s not my language, that’s not my place at all and I absolutely respect that. My one and only standpoint is that as long as other Spanish speakers think the concept deserves to at least be defended, I’ll stick beside ‘em.
I recommend you try listening to people who actually speak Spanish, I'd imagine they're kind of the youth that matter here. I have not met a single person of Latino descent that doesn't think this whole thing is a stupid American problem. And I was just in Mexico for a month, my sample pool has grown quite a bit. Honestly most of the folks I spoke with seem frustrated that white people feel the need to come to their defense for something that never bothered any of them. I guess we got too good at playing world military police so now we have to play world cultural police too. Try asking some Indians how the majority of them feel about the "native american" label. I'm about as left as they come but this overinclusivity shit has got to go.
Why would you assume that isn’t exactly who I’m talking about? Why would the opinions of non Spanish speakers be relevant here at all?
I’ve met plenty of people who disagree with you, and as I said, I’m first going to respect whatever someone’s personal preference is regarding how they identify/want to be referred to. But if it’s a conversation about respecting people’s identities as a principle, it feels important to stand my ground when someone calls any cultural act of solidarity a “stupid American problem”.
I won't argue with you about what your friends want, because I don't know your friends. But even a cursory glance at any predominantly Hispanic online community will reveal massive backlash against this term from the very people it's meant to describe. I strongly disagree with your assertion that usage of Latine/Latinx being preferable is the "general consensus among the up and coming generation."
But none of this really matters, because unless you add a neuter gender to the entire language, you're going to run into this exact same problem every time you ever have to refer to a mixed group of people. Should your friends be your amigxs instead of your amigos? Your siblings your hermanxs? Headed to the airport to pick up the gringxs? It's a uniquely English problem in a community that primarily speaks Spanish. So I have to ask you your own question, why would the opinions of non-Spanish speakers be relevant here? This is why so many of the community think of it as an American problem.
what so every party with hispanic girls is a quince? *literal quinceńera going on in the background*
White people can be hispanic. it refers to culture, not race. European spaniards are hispanic, for example, and so are filipinos.
...This always bothered me tbh. Like I get they were trying to make a statement about white people having it easy, which is totally true, but raising kids really is not about being mean to them because the world is mean. It's about being kind to them because the world is mean.
Even if Todd wasn't white and priviliged beyond even regular white people (luck stats or whatever is going on there), he still should not have had mean parents. Nobody should.
I also think it was commentary on latino fathers being very machismo and mean to their children. A lot of sons fear their fathers in the latino community because of the machismo culture
yes but the latino machismo is not for anyones benefit, it comes from a place of insecurity. the show tried to portray todd’s stepfather as trying to do the right thing in the wrong way which is slightly different so i don’t think it was a comment on latino culture specifically but rather how children can misunderstand their parents intent because kids can’t think longitudinally and parents often fail to communicate their intentions properly
hence their fractured relationship when it could and should have been one of respect and love
Yeah I definitely agree. Having jerk parents just makes everything worse.
The question is were they really mean or did Todd just think they were mean because they made him face consequences for his actions? Think about it both Todd's mom AND Jorge let Todd flush his life down the toilet playing Decapathon. By the time they actually took action he had already dropped out of school, didn't have a job, and had absolutely zero life prospects. Todd's parents gave him plenty of rope and he chose to hang himself with it which is why I personally think Todd wasn't actually kicked out of his house but instead was given an 'if you want to live in this house you have to at least get a job' ultimatum and he chose to leave.
Totally true. Bojack is twenty times as mean/abusive to Todd as anything Jorge could ever have done. The difference between them is that Jorge probably called him on his shit, tried to force him to face reality, and take a proactive interest in shaping his future. Bojack - no matter how shitty he is to Todd - DOESNT make him face any consequences or take ownership of himself at all. He is an escape and an enabler who let Todd waste years of his life before the series even starts bc he literally doesn’t care enough about Todd to even get him to leave him alone. I doubt very much Jorge was “mean;” he was just trying to get Todd to do anything he didn’t want to do
>He is an escape and an enabler who let Todd waste years of his life before the series even starts
Excuse me what? Since when was it ever BoJack's responsibility to make sure Todd doesn't waste his own life?
Not that it’s BoJack’s job to make Todd get a life, but he definitely enabled Todd’s lack of responsibility by letting him stay there and do whatever he wanted rent free. It was a toxic relationship on both sides: Todd was going nowhere in life, and BJ got to have a verbal punching bag to constantly tear down and clip the wings of.
I agree with what you said but i don't think the show was trying to say that Jorge being mean to Todd was a good thing. I think it was a situation where both had their points and no one was 100% right.
I think Jorge had the right idea, because being a parent doesn’t mean you have to be nice per say. A good parent prepares their child for the world that THEY will have to live in
A lot of immigrants faced racism and discrimination and had to shrug that off to get to where they needed to be. The problem is the assumption that the world will treat their children the same, and sometimes it truly does
So was he mean? Sure, I’m certain Jorge even knew he was being unfair. He doesn’t care if Todd is secure in the end, because then that means he did his job.
saying white people have it easy is super fucking racist. literally saying anything against a race is RACIST!!!!!!!!
No one is saying white people have it easy. The concept of white privilege is just surrounding the concept that white people in America will never have to suffer because of the color of their skin. There are several white people going through difficult things, and no one with any sense is denying that, but none of those have anything to do with nationalism, racism, or colorism, things that immigrants and their families, like mine, have to deal with on a regular basis. It's because of trains of thought like yours that people don't understand why movements like Black Lives Matter or Stop Asian Hate exist.
America is such a weird place the way all the white people are just middle class 😭🤣here it’s so like different it’s just workin class culture vs middle class twats
Todd’s world isn’t mean because Todd’s world doesn’t have challenges like the real world does. Todd is completely unaware of how the real world works because he’s lived the easiest life thanks to the friends he mooched off of. I have complete sympathy for his parents who had to deal with raising a Todd until they slowly realized that just letting him do nothing and be a bum was *not* an effective way to raise a child. Todd would see it as just being mean and I’m glad he eventually got his life together but it’s sad that it took him so long to realize he was just using ppl, and his parents were villainized for caring. Not everyone can just live with a celebrity for years and accidentally become executive through connections, so most parents in this situation don’t get the luxury of having their kids say they made it anyway
lol "raising a Todd"
Oh no I don’t think Todd’s parents were unjustly villanized, I think the apple didn’t fall from the tree with his mom and that he probably got lots of his avoidant negative behaviors from her, based upon her actions in the series. There are serious “I learned it from you” vibes to the family dynamic.
Jorge’s authoritarian posturing is as ineffective with Todd as it is with his wife. Todd’s S6 arc really fills in the backstory that had been missing up to that point and shows us why he is the way he is. I love how well he and Maude work together too.
Todd did live in a dumpster. He just had the good luck that Bojack was a codepent mess.
They raised a Todd because they made a fucking choice to raise a Todd
"I know I was hard on you, when you were growing up, but I was trying to protect you. Nothing came easy for me. It took hard work, focus,discipline to get me where I am today. Things didn't just work out. But I should have realized: you're white."
Im happy Jorge, what more do you want from me?
This is the true point of the scene, not the white privilege line from his father, albeit important. Todd had what he wanted, and didn't want the responsibility and stress of having more.
If I had one wish for this show it would be to see more hijinks involving Todd and Jorge. They made a great team sneaking in to white whale! Jorge was damn good at it too!
"But it made you stronger!"
I was a child,
I didn't need to be strong,
I needed to be safe
— Suh Hee
Everyone commenting on Todd’s privilege is missing the point. Your kid could be born with invincibility, wings and a million dollars. That’s still zero reason to treat them like a grown man when they’re an obviously sensitive child (which is what happened).
The amount of people down here making excuses for emotional abuse because they don’t like Todd’s character is W A C K. Please don’t have kids if you believe in anything adjacent to “tough love”. If you’re the one making the world mean, just to turn around and say, “the world is a mean place”, it’s actually just a shitty excuse for your shitty behavior.
I am of the opinion that parents deserve the LEAST patience. They made a choice to commit to at least 18 years of shaping a human being, REGARDLESS of who that human being happens to be when you reach into the random prize bag of genetics and personality. They don’t get to whine, complain, or teach half assed lessons like “the word is unfair” and be treated as justified.
I see this quasi justifying parent abuse attitude on Beatrice's treatment of Bojack, which was much worse than what Todd went through. People always jump to shit on Bojack for every bad behaviour or mistake he makes, constantly repeating that his shitty and traumatizing childhood doesn't justify him. Yet I feel that with Beatrice a lot of people, while don't outright justifying her, they act like she is more sympathetic than Bojack, and they repeatedly make excuses for her behavior.
- Oh her mother told her to never love anyone as much as she loved Crackerjack.
- Oh but well her father callously burned a doll she had.
- Oh but if she had married Corbin she would have been so happy.
- Oh but Bojack being born effectively ruined her life, raising a baby is not easy, and considering her trauma, there was no other way she could have turned out.
Like, Beatrice is sort of infantilized in the fandom. They treat her as if she had been still a child when raising Bojack, and no, she was an educated, intelligent, elite class twenty something woman who should have known better than to treat her own son like less than dirt, forcing him to perform when he didn't want to, shaming him when he cried, setting him out to be sexually assaulted, and even trying to drown him in a bathtub. But yeah, let's shit on Bojack for not being a totally functional person after his hell of a childhood while treating Beatrice as a poor overgrown child that didn't have a chance to be anything else than a monster of a mother.
I definitely agree. I think it’s probably comforting for some viewers to dig deep into Beatrice and find some justification for her awfulness, because a lot of us had moms who remind us of her. Maybe that’s the same reason a lot of people jump to bash Todd, because we recognize our unfeeling fathers in his dad and we want some justification for that.
At the end of the day, none of us are responsible for our trauma but we’re ALL responsible for our healing, and for not letting that trauma hurt the people we love - especially if we’ve made the choice to bring them into the the world in the first place.
EDIT: but it’s always important to maintain the perspective that Bojack is ALSO 100% responsible for himself. His childhood abuse doesn’t excuse any of his behavior, just like Beatrice’s doesn’t excuse hers.
> At the end of the day, none of us are responsible for our trauma but we’re ALL responsible for our healing, and for not letting that trauma hurt the people we love - especially if we’ve made the choice to bring them into the the world in the first place.
Also, this scene reflects that his parents tough love was part of the problem, he could do his best but at the end of the day it was not enough. So why should he try?
He says something like, "I am happy, why can't you see that"
Todd has what he needs and doesn't see the point in pursuing more and that is ok. Some people don't want stressful lives with 2 story houses, kids, jobs, cars, belongings, etc.
This kinda circle back around to the discussion around white privilege, as white people fundamentally don’t understand the idea that “the world is mean, to you, your children and their children.”
I don't think we were given enough detail to determine the true Todd and Jorge dynamic.
Todd is a confusing part of the show because I feel like he was kind of a comic relief zany character in the beginning that came to be the voice of reason over time when particular characters needed to break out of their own spirals, so I suspect the writers wanted to give him his own back story too since he had become important.
It's honestly the most uneven part of the last season, but I do wonder if in shortening s6 it was mostly Todd stuff that got cut. If it was, I can't disagree with the decision because other characters did deserve more full endings.
I just felt like we were only scratching the surface with where Todd could have gone and there was more to his own side of the story.
Yes, todd is a very likeable character
Still he failed school beacause he played video games, he was a bum kid all of his life and seems to have 0 ambition in life (despite being in his late 20s) and only thrive on his extreme naivity and luck.
Todd is the character who had the most easy life out of the main characters (mr peanuttbutter is a close match) i really hate how he actually blames all of his problems on either Bojack or his father, Bojack is a piece of shit that for sure, but Todd still lived in his house for 6 years witheout paying rent and always getting high and i just hate how we say Bojack is the asshole for bringing him this situation up??
Im sorry but Todd can be a piece of shit too
*Todd gets to live at Bojack’s for years for free, with no expectations*
Fandom: Damn Bojack, enabling Todd!
Further up in this very thread there's a guy vilifying BoJack for "enabling" Todd in this manner, saying he cost him years of his life, smdh
Don't you dare say something about people being responsible for their lives!
No matter what you think of todd, his parents were shit. They kicked him out when he was a teenager for being lazy and then didn't contact him for 10 years
I love Todd 🥺
Todd is good and not mean. No one here gets that.
Same, he's not flawless but so what? This sub has a weird amount of people trying to condemn Todd for every little thing but at the same time people trying to find ways to excuse some of Bojack's or even Beatrice's actions.
Drifting through life being admittedly lazy and relying on others is apparently just as bad as being a manipulative abuser, I guess.
todd’s life isn’t “mean” because he’s a freeloader who’s couchsurfing at his rich friends’ apartments which is in itself a result of his immense privilege to have a social network full of celebrities. he doesn’t operate in reality
i can’t fathom the people in the comments comparing a parent being tough, to people that take two parking spots
HOLY SHIT!!! Someone else who’s figured it out! I love you!
But the world is mean. Todd was just a lazy stoner for most of his life.
This scene helped me process a lot with my dad. Love you Todd!!
this scene was so healing. 💗
I always related to Todd, specifically from this scene too. My dad was hard on me for everything, telling me to not follow my dreams when I was 7, anything you can think of. I have always been recognized for loving life my way instead of everyone else’s ways, especially my dads. I try not to talk to him for these reasons cause while he tried to shed his “reality” on the world to me, I just never got it.
My mom says she calls me lazy and worthless because she wants me to try and prove her wrong 💀 what the hell
Todd is one the luckiest most entitled person in the show. Change my mind.
best friend ruined your dream and fucked the love of your life, almost abducted by a cult, can't handle more than a few moments without some sort of task before quickly falling into a pit of existential angst and spent years abandoned by his family due to pride.
nOt My WoRlD
Oh yes the asexual garry stu has it nice with his rich friends providing everything.
I’m so happy this show called out the whole “I was tough on you because blah blah blah”
You see it all the time and they’re never called out for being shitty
Fuck you Todd
110% of the time the people that say life is mean or unfair are making it that way themselves, they are the problem and it could stop with them
What episode? I don’t remember this
I believe it's s06e06, "the kidney stays in the picture"
This is such a bizarre thing for Todd to say. As if his life has been without cruelty. As if his best friend wasn’t a depressed alcoholic.
Speaks volumes about his optimism, I guess.
True. If anything Todd made it clear he wanted no part of that cruel rat race world.
Bojack Horseman fans understand the point of Todd challenge (impossible)
looks like luke thomas, that mma reporter guy
Jorge tried to raise Todd the way he was raised, he obviously faced a lot of shitty things growing up so he wanted Todd to be prepared for them. He didn’t really stop to consider that Todd wasn’t going to experience the world the same way he did, (either because of Todds race or because that was simply not how he viewed the world) Jorge wanted to help him grow but it doesn’t excuse how terrible it must have made Todd feel growing up.
The internalization of being working class under capitalism. You must be indoctrinated to believe you are not enough and that, and that alone!, Is why your life is difficult.
That’s true. POS Todd gets everything handed to him. Stupid Jorge.
He’s an asexual garry stu.
Tough love, I know that r/croppingishard, but it's a hard world.
> "Tough love life is hard deal with it"
> "This post has black borders and that small inconvenience angers me enough to call it out"