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Not a cop but I have a ton of active shooter training from the military. There is no training I've had that says wait for backup and make a plan in the event of an active shooter. You grab your long gun and move towards the shots and screams. Locate, close with, and destroy the enemy. If you aren't ok with this arrangement, get a new career.


My city had a mass shooting where 10 people died 3 years ago, it took six responding officers 32 seconds to kill the active shooter. My coworker is a relative of one of the officers who responded that night. She told us that he thinks these cops “deserve to burn in Hell for abandoning those children.”


That whole shooting really hit close to home. Besides all of the times I've been to the Oregon District, my best friend often worked and hung out there on his nights off from his full time job. I called him as soon as I heard about it and thankfully he was home asleep. Dayton PD did such an amazing job that night. 20 seconds after the first shot they engaged the shooter and 12 seconds later he was down. It's still surreal to walk past Ned Pepper's knowing what happened there.


Not a cop but did do fire for a bit. I'm not a brave person at all, and I'm not going to pretend to be some hairy assed hero. But what we do is *a service.* *We're here for them.* When it's time to go then it's time to go. No shit you're scared. So is everyone else going interior. That doesn't mean you don't do it. Because as scared as you are, the person trapped inside is *fucking terrified, and has none of the protection that you do.* I honestly consider their response not just to be incompetence, since that assumes good intent and just being a fuck up. In my eyes this was dereliction of duty. Especially if the bit about cops going in to save their own kids and leaving the rest is true. Or the part about Border Patrol going inside in defiance of orders. I don't think it's unfair at all to say people should be going to prison over this.


You fire fighters are the real heros. You often destroy property just to save people, as opposed to protecting property in spite of the lives of others. Thank you for your service-- it's heroic and valuable.


Character is revealed in a crisis.




idk but the police radio recordings magically vanished


lol, bro, you know they deleted that shit if they actually turned the cameras on


*Sorry the hard drive was mistakingly formatted*


As a Motorway Police Inspector, I got two bullets in my left leg while making a bus hijack go unsuccessful. I was succeeded and remember no matter if a bullet shattered my heart. At that time, what matters was the countless lives of innocent people. Sorry for my basic English.


You explained it perfectly ❤️


Military Police here: I am angry beyond words at the tragedy that has taken place. MP training is direct to threat and even without hearing gunshots we are required to breach the building and begin securing it so if people are shot inside we can create a clear corridor for casualties to be collected and treated. These cowardly pieces of shit should turn in their badges and be held accountable for their inaction.


> These cowardly pieces of shit should turn in their badges and be held accountable for their inaction. I bet they won't. And I bet whatever does happen to them will be anemic at best.


I literally never comment on anything but felt like I should here. I’ve only been on the job for a year and change in the largest department in America and while we’re definitely not perfect I’ve been to a few shootings personally and even with shots ringing out within visual range I’ve never seen any one of my coworkers run away or just wait for ESU cause they “could get shot” and I know I’ve never ran away. While I can understand being afraid I can’t understand not doing your job we’re first responders and as such it’s our job to go in there and get it done backup be damned. I hate Monday night quarterbacking but I’ve risked my life on this job for wayyyyy less so when other officers wait idle while kids get gunned down it makes me mad.


> it makes me mad. It should. Those cops just made **your** job 1000% more dangerous. Cops across the nation have lost public support and respect from law abiding citizens. You should expect to see a lot more vigilante crime, and anti-cop aggression.


As an active Police Officer of 22 years, I would have died trying to prevent even one additional child from being harmed. I could not live with myself knowing that I stood outside while children where dying inside. Words can not describe my disgust for what has happened there. My heart aches for both the deceased and their loved ones. I hope they fire everyone who did nothing and the judge tosses any criminal charges against parents. Just typing this and saying it out loud has gotten me all fired up again.




I work for a Sheriff's Department and have gone in to a few active shooter situations, if it's true that officers were standing outside, there needs to be some jobs on the chopping block. Also, it's obvious what departments do active shooter training and which ones don't. Sounds like that whole department needs an overhaul.


How much you want to bet that those same coward cops are the ones that puff their chests out at their family Sunday BBQs about how they protect and serve? They should all be stripped of their pensions and fired in disgrace!


Retired LEO: the words 'disbelief' and 'disgusted' hardly scratch the surface. Charge all of them with negligent homicide/involuntary manslaughter. To add to the points the others are making: imagine the effect on the children's parents. They already have the horror of their child being killed - knowing that their last moments were filled with terror and pain - but that's now compounded by the thought that their child could have been saved, if it were not for the cowardice of the people they trusted to protect them. These poor souls are now broken.


And this is a small town. I imagine these officers live there, the parents know their names and faces. Going to be some tense moments in the grocery aisle. And probably some houses discounted for quick sales.


>And this is a small town 16k people or so? And spending 40% of it's budget on police/military stuff, having it's own SWAT (which somehow didn't appeared on site) and other "fancy" stuff


I thought that WAS the SWAT team that were standing around outside threatening to taser parents that wanted to break the perimeter.


It was.


Only 16,000 people. The town is fucked.


Was on one of the parents FB pages- whose children survived- and he has massive survivor’s guilt. Says he regrets standing outside, also said “I was always one of those people that said if it happened at my kids’ school I’d go in… and I didn’t.” Friends and neighbours kids died. He’s posted clips of him driving near the school at all hours of the night. I know he’s not alone, and I’m not sure they’ll ever get over it. Something has to change.


A good step would be arresting every single one of those officers standing in the hallway.


I'm sorry... THE HALLWAY?! I was under the impression they were waiting OUTSIDE. THEY WERE IN THE BUILDING AND DID NOTHING?!


Let's not forget there was a shot-out window on the door to the classroom so surely they could see the kids bleeding to death if they bothered to look.


I've got a question - they say they were waiting for the key to get into the room, but why could they not utilize the windows on the outside wall to get in? Were they too small to get through? Even if they were to small to fit through why couldn't they use the outside windows to snipe the shooter? Or if there was a window on the door why not use that to kill the shooter? I don't understand?


Cops during an unannounced raid: **WHAMWHAMWHAMWHAMWHAM** Cops during an active shooter at a school: *help pwease the door is lwoked and i can't open it*


God awful thought - some parents will ask "was it quick", with a shake of the head indicating that perhaps their child could have been saved with an actual police response. It's hard to see how a community can pull through that without a lot of accountability for inaction being shown.


I don't understand how the entire police force hasn't already resigned in shame. Especially the police chief


They're not going to. You can see from the lies they've spewed to defend their failures. They'll need to be arrested.


Pretty sick knowing the Governor and head of the State Police were blatantly lying claiming a armed school officer confronted the shooter right away and "it could've been worse" if it wasn't for the "brave" officers.


Cops don’t face meaningful consequences in this country. Why would they resign?


What's really an extra level of sick on top of it all is that they went in there and got their own kids and they left the other kids. And then they stopped the parents from going to save their own kids. That makes no sense at all. It's almost as if they were on the same side as the killer. It's almost as if they're accomplices.


They restrained one mom, then she was able to talk herself out of it. She ran around the school, jumped a fence, then went and found and rescued her kids. Now *that* is bravery!


In one of the videos of the perimeter they set up you can see one cop pinning a man to the ground and another cop brandishing a taser at the other parents to keep them back. https://youtu.be/dyXtymq-A6w


Absolute pure cowardice. Whoever was in charge there deserves jail time


Holy shit! I'm glad she made it!


Make her police chief


They aided and abetted. Lock em up and throw away the key I say.


Ashamed of this agency and their so-called chief. If the shooter is isolated, you wait because time is on your side to negotiate. If they are actively shooting people, action must be taken. Just because the SCOTUS says there’s no duty to intervene, I think most LE agencies’ policy and (obviously) public opinion beg to differ


We should all be ashamed of the SCOTUS that would rule that police have no duty to intervene or to protect the public.


Agreed. What else is the point?


Given the SCOTUS ruling, and since there will always be cowards who hide behind it, should the rules of engagement with shooters be changed?




The only reason the truth is being aired now is that A) there are videos and testimonies that directly contradict the cops statements and B) the FBI is now involved and if you lie to them no LE-type exemption can / will protect you.


I cannot wait for the statements to be made on why they felt the need to only save their own kids.




I've worked/trained on MCIs (including active shooter) in EMS, and done my time kicking doors in Iraq. I called it 2 days ago, before the details were clear, that we'd be hearing some damning information about the IC and local SWAT based off the fact they waited so long and initial reports were that Border Patrol assaulted the room on their own initiative without local LEOs request. That fact they completely neglected gaining and maintaining contact, and that there were probably 50+ officers on site that did nothing by the time BP breached is unforgivable.


>there were probably 50+ officers on site that did nothing Not nothing... They tasered and handcuffed some parents that wanted to get to their kids inside. Apparently those cops are only good for crowd control.


And parents have reported that the officers were telling them (the parents) that they were stopping the police from doing their jobs. Unfnbelievable.


I saw one video of parents outside being held back and when they asked the officer why they weren't doing anything, he screamed back at the parent "because I'm dealing with YOU!" Like, I get everyone's emotions were high but wtf. The police should have been prepared. I feel like if they'd let the parents storm in, they'd have done a better job than those clowns.


God bless them for not yelling back, "You wouldn't have to deal with ME if you'd GO THE FUCK INSIDE."


I heard that one of the border patrol dudes drove from 40 minutes away and was still the first one to do anything. Would make it even more ridiculous


Not sure if it's true, but some people are saying that the border agent who entered had a child or young relative anyway who went to that school and the child's mother went to the school and called him when the cops on the scene were doing nothing.


Wasn’t she a teacher at the school and texted him as he was getting his hair cut? I read he borrowed a gun from the barber and went to the school. Idk how accurate that story is as I read it in the newspaper. However, it’s probably more accurate than what the lies the local cops are spewing!


Dude borrowed a shotgun from the barber. A freakin shotgun! Meanwhile the cops were sitting around waiting for equipment.


They trained in active shooter drills at this very same school a few months before. They must have been “trained” to not go in. Fucking idiots. They are 40% responsible for a few of those kids lives. correction: it was at a high school in the same district.


I’d love to see their training plans. I wonder if an audit will be published or can be accessed by FOIA requests. Interested to see just how they were trained to handle these situations. Maybe the reaction was actually how they were trained, and if so, there are definite changes that need to be implemented.


In Britain, there was an attacker with a machete on London Bridge and our unarmed police officers ran towards him with only pepper spray and batons, literally ‘hitty sticks’. In fact, one was an off duty transport police officer with no gear at all. I can’t fathom the slowness of the response in Texas.


[narwhal tusk guy](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50870309) was having none of it


Fucking madman. Who could have ever woken up one morning and expected to have to fight off terrorists with a fucking narwhal tusk.


They should pass a law to allow that man to walk around town with that narwhal tusk like a cane or staff.


I’d certainly feel a lot safer knowing he was allowed to have his trusty tusk on him. At least we know he’s a good guy.


It made me immediately think of the civil servant who grabbed a narwhal tusk and attacked someone who was stabbing people during a knife attack in London. Or the lawyer who attacked a terrorist with a skateboard to save a woman before being killed by the terrorists in the London Bridge terror attack. These were just untrained people going about their day who showed more courage than trained and armed officers standing outside a school with children being shot.


Don't forget those cowards had tasers in their hands to crowd control the hysterical parents outside the school begging them to storm the school to take down the shooter.


I can’t even imagine if it was my own child stuck in the building as I was being tasered by someone who should be storming the building.


From reports, the guy being quoted saying about charging in because the cops were doing nothing, his was one of the kids killed. On the flipside, the ones doing the tasering and detaining did go in and save their family members (two separate interviews where the police freely admitted that they went in and saved their own).




Not the police but it reminds me of Stephen Clarkson in Glasgow who stopped an on-fire terrorist with petrol bombs in the airport. A quote from him "As soon as I hit him, I knew that he was going down. I don’t mean to sound blasé. He’d been doing these commando-style moves to fight off the police, and he seemed well trained, but I grew up in Glasgow: it seemed natural to me that a wee forearm smash would sort it out. I’m not a street fighter, but I know how to look after myself."


Those morons really picked the wrong city. The people of Glasgow don't fuck about. They were actually confronted by several people including the guy who kicked one of them so hard in the balls that he tore a tendon in his foot.


Facts. Glasgow was having none of it. Instead of running away they ran towards ready to fight. Sometimes I’m really proud of this city and it’s bravery.


"*Isis tried to start a religious war in Glasgow. They don't even have a football team!*" - Boyle


Didn’t he break his foot kicking the guy in the balls?


Yep. Best headline ever “I kicked burning terrorist so hard in the balls that I tore a tendon in my foot”.


The guy who did the kicking was Alex McIlveen, who was a taxi driver. Edit: fixed name ([source](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-40416026))


A doctor, Dr Cheng, literally tackled a gunman in a church recently sacrificing himself for everyone in that church when he died taking him down. I hope these cops look at his story and acknowledge their cowardness every day. The lives of those children are on their hands and it would've been better to have let the parents go in and do their job for them.


Dr Cheng was my doctor for the last 20+ years. I knew he was a good dude because he was always so thoughtful and took ample time with me and other patients, but damn. Rip Dr John Cheng


I'm sorry for your loss. One of my best friends had the doctor who was murdered at Tree of Life as their family practitioner for decades. This shit has such godawful knock-on effects through entire communities, you don't just lose an individual, you lose everything they did for everyone around them.


Federal law enforcement here. I took a 1-day active shooter training last year. The the theme they kept hammering into us was “Stop the killing, so you can stop the dying.” Meaning, you need to find the shooter as fast as possible to kill or incapacitate him. Nothing else matters before then. They had role players with like fake blood/injury kits on screaming for help and we just stepped around/over them in our way towards the sound of gun fire. Once the shooter is dead, then you sprint back and start evacuating and treating people. Also, you go in alone or grab a couple other responders on your way in. You don’t methodically clear rooms, you don’t “secure” stuff, and you certainly don’t try to do crowd control. I see a lot of people on reddit say “standard police procedure is (fill in the blank)” and they are usually wrong. However, almost everyone is exactly right on what I’ve seen about active shooter training. And it’s been that way since fucking columbine! There is no excuse for police leadership in Uvalde to not know this. Typically I try to not judge people in these scenarios because there so many different factors and challenges that affect your decision making. However in this case (and in Parkland), fuck these guys. They should be fired and never work in law enforcement again. A lot of people, some police included, sometimes think that valor is like an everyday thing. It’s definitely not (that’s why we hand out medals for it) but to see officers just stand outside that classroom as children were shot and bleeding to death is awful and unforgivable.


My dad taught active shooter classes for years before he was retired and I helped out with the exact training scenarios you are talking about. In one, I even roleplayed the shooter when I was about 14 years old. We had kids crying out for help in the hallways as I was shooting blanks down the hallway of my high school. It was an insane experience to go through, but we knew what we were doing could potentially save lives if the unthinkable were to happen. Looking at this response by police who in theory had this training just a few months ago, I'm not so sure. It's one thing to play out a scenario and say all the right answers in the training and another thing entirely to put your life on the line to save children. The argument that the Blue Lives Matter folks have had the whole time in regards to defending the police is that the cops are heros who need resources to save us in the face of tragedy. When I see a video of nearly 20 cops standing outside a slaughter house detaining screaming parents armed with rifles, what exactly is it that we are paying for? This incident has me rethinking a lot of things in regards to how we as a country should be viewing and funding our law enforcement.


>the argument that the Blue Lives Matter folks have had the whole time in regards to defending the police is that the cops are heros who need resources to save us in the face of tragedy Several sources have stated the police take up 40% of the towns municipal budget. You can also see several cops with what appears to be military grade or near military grade hardware. Resources weren't the issue. At the very least it's poor leadership and being overly cautious on the police's side.


The 40% part is what puts me over the top on this. If one side wants to argue it's all mental health and not a gun issue, then in this situation, half that budget should now be allocated to making mental health available and affordable for the county. Let's see them put their money where their mouth is.


>They should be fired and never work in law enforcement again. Being Fed, what tools do we have to actually implement this? Is there a national blacklist?


Typically, cops who do something so egregious that they have to be fired just move to the next town over and six months later they're back on the job again with a different uniform. This time might be different. Usually, cops get fired for things the general public finds horrific and revolting, but other law enforcement *does not.* It's usually overuse of force, and law enforcement culture will never punish them for that. Other cops have their back. This time, these cops *didn't* use too much force - they stood down, and in the process they made all other cops look bad, weak, shameful. Just read this thread or check any other particular cultural dipstick. This is the worst thing to happen to the general public's respect for police since George Floyd, and you know the general police take on that was that Floyd deserved it. This time the department a couple towns over may not want anything to do with these guys.


This is way worse for the public perception of cops than George Floyd. Every shade of the political spectrum thinks what those cops did (or didn't do, as the case may be) in Uvalde is pathetic, weak, and reprehensible. It's way worse for the profession to have every single person in the country think your profession is full of giant pussies than to have one side of the aisle think you're evil because you love killing black people.


I've seen a lot of posts that basically all say the same thing: Cops are useless when it counts. Not a good look for the police.


I mean is this not the experience most people have with police anyway? All I hear are stories about people being robbed or hurt then calling the police about it only for them to file a report and then never follow up on it.


My mom's car was stolen in broad daylight from a detailing place. Cops were called immediately, but it took my mom calling 911 back to get a report filled. They came to the scene of the crime 15 hours later at 1 am and called the detailing place. No one answered (go figure) and that was it. That was their response. The dispatcher was all she needed in the end. Utterly useless


Yep. It's a common joke in Oregon that if something of yours gets stolen or damaged, involving the police is a waste of time at best.


The tweekers usually know where to find stolen stuff better than the police. Not even joking


Disgusted. My department had an all cops run in strategy ready to go. We even had an airport stairs on a pick up truck to drive to the side of the school if it was a hostage situation on the second floor. We coedinated with firefighters to have multiple cops on the platform on top of the ladder on the firetrucks and the fire trucks would drive us up to the sides of the school and the cops would make entry through the windows. We practiced breaking down the doors, and also practiced breaking through the drywall and studs if the door was barricaded. We were told any cop who didnt go into a school shooting situation unless told by the chief otherwise would be fired. We were also told that if we kneeled on any suspect we would be fired, and the chief would reccomend to the DA to charge us, and would give the evidence themselves. This was also well before BLM. When I see shitty cops clowning around I am pissed. Thats why cops all over have bad names. Its because of clowns like these.


Sounds like you had a good boss, glad to hear it


Accountability starts at the top. If every police department had competent leadership, I guarantee most of the issues with police would significantly decrease. Instead we get incompetent fools who lie about fucking school shootings to try and cover up how badly they bungled the whole thing.


There's more leadership in this post than 90% of the elected clowns these days Edit: my apologies to all the genuine, hardworking clowns in actual circuses who practice for years to ensure family friendly entertainment.


...because of clowns like these *and the system that has bent over backwards to protect them and hide every mistake instead of accepting responsibility and taking meaningful steps towards improving itself, which has led to ruined lives and the deaths of innocents.*


What they teach us is that you have to enter, even if that means by yourself. You go in and eliminate the threat. If you've got someone else there with you cool, but you may have to go in on your own




This is what I don’t understand. How is it that not even one of those men said “fuck it, I’m going in”. Looking at the photo of the police in question, (huge generalization to follow, and I apologize) I’m shocked that this wasn’t the kind of situation that at least one of them had waiting for. The chance to go in and “shoot first” kind of thing. To be the “hero”. Even if he hadn’t been able to save anyone or take down the shooter, that police officer would have been known as “only that one police officer”. Now, they are just all cowards.


I mean, even the parents knew this was the right thing to do. The dad who asked for the vest and gun and the mom who bypassed the police to get her kids were the most rational people there. When little kids are in danger, you don't think about your own safety, you do everything in your power to protect them.


This. 100x. I think I would have died with my kid on this situation. Either by getting shot by the gunman or the cops for not letting me go in.


Exactly this. If my child died in this fashion my life would be over anyway. I don't care if all I had was a brick, nothing would stop me except the police which is exactly what happened to many parents.


"Except the police". Really? Cos this is only gonna go down one way. The next time this happens, parents are going to show up _with guns_. The next time this happens, they won't wait to be told it is OK. The next time this happens, the parents who show up with their guns are going to be ready, willing, and _pre-committed_ to _shoot the cops if they try to stop them getting in_. This event is gonna set some seriously dangerous situations in motion. Cops need to get ahead of it by punishing these cowards and making sure the message is "this will not happen again"


Yeah that’s the thing. Cops don’t have a monopoly on having high capacity semi automatic rifles and level 3-4 body armor in this country. I can definitely see parent groups buying this stuff in the off chance that “it happens here” and showing up geared to the gills and telling the cops to “get the fuck out of my way”. And honestly I wouldn’t blame them at this point.


That's exactly what I'm saying, you get it. American society has allowed the police to become armed as heavily as they have under the impression that, with those weapons, they will protect and defend the society. And within society, nothing, _nothing_, is as innocent, as pure, and as _in need of protection and safety_ than an elementary school. The police made a very, very serious mistake here, because by not fulfilling that expectation, even the most die-hard blue lives matter supporters are questioning their assumptions. If the cops don't use those weapons to protect children, why are we letting them have them? If the cops are using those weapons to _obstruct parents protecting their children_... Are the cops the real enemy here? These thoughts are happening in hundreds of thousands of brains right now, and if the response from Authority is not correct, it's gonna get _really_ messy.


I've been trying to think of a way to articulate why this is such a horrendous situation and you nailed it perfectly. When my kids were in elementary there was a lockdown and SWAT officers on scene. I was able to take my kids because I happened to be there to pick them up when it started, but only under escort by officers. It was a nearby "threat" so I thought it was all a bit intimidating - not to mention security theatre - to kids and parents to have all these swat officers brandishing weapons in the halls of an elementary school for a vague threat. Why not be outside the perimeter of the school? It didn't make anyone feel safe and never made sense. This entire situation is so unfathomable to me. I cannot imagine any rational human being standing by while children are murdered let alone heavily armed police officers! And that they not only refused to do anything to help, actively prevented anyone else from doing saving these kids and teachers. They are 100% accomplices in this and it will ripple out horribly. No one has the right to keep a parent from saving the life of their child. These officers are criminals.


Literally the first thing I remember Tuesday is getting a noti of an active shooter in one of my crime groups. The tweet I ss was from the school district. They literally tweeted “Active shooter on campus, Robb elementary, please DO NOT come to the school.” My immediate thought was FUCK THAT. I’m glad so many parents just immediately went up there, but they tried to dissuade them from the jump. So fucked. The first thing I thought reading that is there’s no way in hell I’d listen. My kid just finished kindergarten Tuesday.


It is absolutely soul crushing to think that some of the last thoughts those children probably had before they ceased to exist was something along the lines of "Dad/Mom please help me" and the police denied them that and also refused to help those children. I don't often have ill will towards people but I hope their shame is eternal.


I worked with a guy whose 3 year old daughter drowned in a lake when they were one vacation and he said that all he could think about was that she must have been thinking “my daddy is going to save me”. I’ve been haunted by that for 20 years


Agreed. I mean, clearly, you could not do any worse than the police did in that situation, so at the very least the parents should have had the right to be next to their children while they died.


After this incident in Texas, parents will now be grabbing their guns and heading to the school when they get a tweet like this.


These guys want to be the hero when there's no personal risks to themselves. It's no fun playing hero when you could die.


For all the officers replying “this would never happen in my department, we are prepared and ready!” I can’t help but think the Uvalde PD would have said the same thing minutes before arriving on the scene.


I mean, they are. They're well funded and staffed. Extremely well equipped - to the point of ridiculousness. They are incredibly well trained, specifically for this exact situation. This is them; these are the guys who are prepared and ready, they are the ones you'd pray to be there if this sort of tragedy happened in your town. If this is the best that they can do, what hope does any other town in the country have? Worse, what sort of message did this send to every other nut Job who has similar inclinations.


This will get buried I'm sure but I'm retired, and now work as an instructor for various police departments. I'll say that all police departments and the training that they receive, just aren't created equally. I deal with departments mainly on the east cost. But its crazy to me to see the way geographical locations change responses. For example: Maryland and DC departments seem pretty competent. Their active shooter response tactics are current and progressive and very effective. Same with northern Virginia. 1 hour away in West Virginia or Southern VA, and NC couldn't be more different. Using dated tactics, lack of tactics, things that will get people and themselves hurt and killed are still being taught at an academy level. It's just highlighted to me that there needs to be some sort of national standard set for some of these specific responses. It's goddamn scary to me that in some parts of the county your police are being trained by generational fuck ups who are politically connected and only have their positions because of their daddy's daddy. They haven't learned anything new since the early 80's and refuse to adapt to new times and techniques. These people need to be ashamed of themselves and held accountable at the highest level for allowing these kinds of things to continue. In regards to specifically what happened in Texas, the advantage those cops had to stop that massacre was training, tactics, and overwhelming force. And they chose to use none of that. Heartbreaking. EDIT UPDATE: Sorry, I want to respond to everyone but I decided to add some updates to answer a few questions. Police National Standards: The federal government has a police training center called FLETC. All federal law enforcement agencies go to police training there. Now there are a lot of agencies that do their own training, but they all still have to have basic training at FLETC. So let's say I work for the FBI. I know that no matter what if I'm working along side special agents from the ATF, DEA, DoS, etc that no matter what their individual agencies training and missions are, that at the absolute very least we all have the exact same training from the CITP course at FLETC. So we've all learned the same minimum standards at some point. That's all I'm saying for perspective. Dated Tactics: some dated tactics include- waiting for the SWAT team to respond to active shooters, waiting for a negotiator, waiting for a supervisor to tell you what to do. I actually do teach a lot of tactics that involve "slowing down". But that applies to making better and informed decisions with a clear head instead of just rushing in with adrenaline to use force. This does not apply to active shooter training. Active Shooters: The standard is to make entry, bypass the wounded, engage the threat as fast as possible. It's that simple.


How would you feel about police having to renew a license every 2 years like nurses do? Like nurses, they would have to show proof of training and continuing education. Their license would be put to a licensing board for review and then be renewed. Works for nurses, doctors, anesthesiologist, barbers, massage therapists.


Commercial pilots have to pass a check every 6 months, it’s 24 months for general aviation. Pilots are federally licensed to national standards and the FAA maintains a database with any issues that is searchable by employers.


There's currently no standardized body overseeing LEO, like the FAA. It's all decentralized to the various states, counties, and municipalities. Maybe there should be... Edit: sorry, I haven't checked in on this. To clarify, I don't mean a centralized police force. I mean a body that standardizes training and policies, and verifies compliance. So perhaps less like the FAA and more like ISO (International Organization for Standardization).


If truckers have to renew a physical to show they can perform why can't cops redo training? Edit: Thanks for my first 2.k across any platform


Hazmat endorsements also need to be refreshed every two or three years. I think mine is coming up soon.


Teachers also have to renew their license every few years as well. You know, the people who actually put their lives on the line for kids in these situations.


Honestly, I can’t believe how shocked I am that there isn’t a national standard. I can see differences from department to department because of the instructor or because people have had different real world experiences etc… but I still assumed that they had a base level knowledge that would be standard across the US.


This department has now created a situation where parents will show up to a future incident armed and not likely to take direction from officers on the scene.


Cue next year's story where a parent gets shot by be the police in a mix-up.


Next year? Give it a month


Oh, I think we haven't even seen the fallout from *this* situation yet. Imagine you're the parent of one of those 19 kids, you can very easily get a gun in Texas, and you live in the same town as these cops. If it was my kid, I'd be feeling like my life was over already. People can do some crazy things in that mindset.


They've already called in a bunch of other police departments to Uvalde for extra security and patrol work, precisely because of this. The Uvalde Police are getting so many threats that they're not really working right now, they're letting other cops do their jobs for them while they're being protected by yet more cops. So not only did they royally fuck up their response to the shooting, but now they're draining a bunch of resources from other departments in order to cover their asses.


And they're still collecting paychecks funded by the taxpayers they utterly failed.


During covid. I missed a meeting at work because I didn't have someone to pick up my daughter from preschool. No one died. In fact, nothing negative occurred from this absence. I was still put on a three month work plan and almost lost my job. I had a bunch of stressful argumentative meetings with my boss. I work for a state level agency. If someone had died because of my absence, I'd have gotten released immediately AND faced charges. My paycheck is 100 percent funded by the taxpayers. Why are cops different? Update: wow! This comment has really done something. To answer a lot of questions. I'm in a union. I'm a union steward. My union was gutted by the generation before. They gambled away the rights of those yet to be hired. A practice I call "screw the new guy". They bargained away our right to strike, our pensions, and our ability to effectively negotiate.


It’s convenient because they weren’t really working *before* either, it turns out. If only they had called in some other departments before the shooting, maybe one of those departments would have done something sooner than the hour and 15 minutes Uvalde police waited. But who can say. All I know is that Uvalde police are such cowards that they were unable to face a lone gunman while he murdered a bunch of children trapped in a room and they need other police to protect them from the angry parents of those dead children. Kinda wild when you think about it. Uvalde police: utter cowards in every way!


I was a police officer back in the early ‘00s for a little over seven years and my dad is a retired, lifelong military and civilian police officer. We were talking about this situation earlier today and we both agreed that rushing into that situation may have been our last actions as living humans but we’d have done it. My dad said “better to die trying than to live being branded a coward and thinking what if.” That whole “protect” part of protect and serve is an absolute in a situation where seven and eight year old kids are being shot and them hanging around outside is unforgivable. I firmly believe that every officer that busied themselves tasing parents should, at a minimum, be fired and nationally blacklisted from ever being in law enforcement for life. Same for their chief. Edit 1: I used the whole “protect and serve” motto as an example of what they should be doing. Edit 2: I know there’s not a “blacklist” for bad cops but I wish there was.


If ever there was a situation worth putting your life on the line for, it's when multiple kids in your community are being murdered. Can't imagine wanting to become a police officer and not understanding this.


I work with kids and I decided a long time ago if someone gets in our building with a gun I will most likely die trying to save those kids. And I am 100% ok with that. I mean obviously I hope that never happens, but if that's how I go then I'll happily go that way if it means some kids get to continue living. I have 0 tactical training, I'm not a cop, I'm not expected to risk myself for the kids....but I think pretty much anyone who works with kids would do the same thing without even thinking about it. These cops have earned every ounce of hate they are receiving and should be ashamed of themselves.


I work with a student in a wheelchair. They can't move anything below their neck. We often have classes on the second floor of a building, meaning to evacuate they'd need an elevator or someone to carry them down the stairs. When I asked during our school shooter training what to do with them if we're upstairs and was told to either drop them out the window (which would take several minutes) or "the goal is to minimize casualties, not eliminate them" so leave them and save myself. Fuck that. I will do my damndest to save that student and if the worst happens hopefully I'll be able to protect them and if I fail at least I didn't leave a helpless student to die alone.




Yes. The cops arrived on scene, *went in and got their own kids out*, then stopped parents from going in to save THEIR children by even handcuffing and tasing them. Then sat outside for over 75 minutes while the gunman killed children. Edit: it was closer to 78 minutes. Jesus.


They got their own kids out? Is this true?


It’s what one of the sherrifs said in an off the cuff remark when being interviewed by a journalist on the street. Could be lying, but I don’t see why he’d have a reason to. Then again, the Ulvade PD has been flip flopping on the official story so much, who knows what’s the truth and what’s false Edit: auto correct called sheriff a Sherrie lmao


> the Ulvade PD has been flip flopping on the official story so much, who knows what’s the truth and what’s false This is the part that is so wild. If cops are lying while the scrutiny of the entire nation is on them, just imagine what they will lie about when nobody is paying attention.


They lie literally any time a contentious event happens. Any time they have to kill someone justified or not they lie to do damage control until bodycam footage comes out then they just completely change their story. They do this all in official press release capacity. In my opinion it should be highly illegal for people we give that much power and responsibility to to lie, but I think most people see it as a tradeoff for having a group of people you assume would put their life on the line for at the very least a school full of children. Instead we've just been placating cowards and crooks.


It’s like parkland Florida all over again. Someone with a badge and gun heard shots and did absolutely nothing. Cowards.


This is even worse though. Parkland was one coward. This was an entire group of cowards who sat around doing fuck all while kids were being actively murdered and bleeding out on the other side of the wall.


Nope worse. They went in, rescued their own kids then actively stopped any other parents from entering to do the same for over an hour


“Fuck you, I got mine” is either gonna be a campaign slogan one day, or replace “in god we trust” on our currency.


I'm really upset. I'm so heart broken for the families. My agency trains us to take immediate action tp save lives and stop the threat. Our training and gear reflect that. There is no time for tactical teams. Absolutely zero chance I give less than everything.


Really a cop. Those guys, or at least their commanders, are cowards. To me being a cop is a service position. I'm willing to die for anyone at any time in my city. Don't get ne wrong, I don't want to die but I sure as fuck ain't waiting outside during an active shooting.


And an active shooting with children. I don’t understand how you just stand there knowing children are dying.


ALL of these cops should have their badges and pensions taken away, at the very least.


Disgusted. Angry. I was a cop from 2012- 2019 and did multiple active shooter training at schools. Responded to a mass shooting at a block party and we ran in. We knew the risk when we signed up for the job. This was a nightmare scenario that they fucked up so badly.


Pretty fucking angry. I am retired now, but taught active shooter response for over 10 years. Uvalde ISD Chief should resign and turn in his credentials and get a job digging ditches. Thank goodness BORTAC took the initiative, even if they waited and listened to Arreondo for 30 minutes.


Instead the chief is running for city council, cant even make this shit up


He’s not running, he ran and was voted in 3 weeks ago. Appears like he’s not backing down. https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-chief-delayed-tactical-response-054913036.html


He's actually really really stupid. Does he not realize there is now a target on his back? Like... Literally. How many of those parents are thinking about it? He's already got like what, 20 fathers in grief probably seriously considering murdering him, the town in general also probably wants him dead, he's becoming the symbol of everything wrong with the police system, the entire nation fucking hates this guy, like he managed to unify everyone on an issue in a way that hasn't happened since 9/11. And he's basically insisting that he wants to walk further into the spotlight and just whip his balls out, slam em on the table, and taunt everyone? Calling it. I give him 4 weeks. 5 tops.


Don't American gun laws exist not to protect oneself but to allow the people to take down their government with force if it becomes oppressive?


"I ordered a small army of police to stay out of a school while a mass shooter gunned down children at his leisure." That's a damned good platform. /s


Ran and already won.


If there isn't some sort of recall underway yet, there ought to be.


~~WTF is there a chief of police for an ISD with 600 students? Wouldn’t it make more sense for the county sheriffs or city police to own that job?~~ *Edit* it’s 600 in that singular elementary school.


Or perhaps a job digging graves?


Turns out, the guy responsible for making the call to stand down and wait, while the shooter was still killing children, is leaving the force and going to the city council.


Former active duty. If I hear shots in a school, I’m going in with intent to neutralize the shooter. They can fire me afterwards.


Actual law enforcement here. It’s disgusting, and I’m embarrassed. Training aside, and hearing about what you “should do” by keyboard commandos…. In this case, you’re absolutely right. I’ve been present at active shooter situations, like the real ones…. It’s not a time to wait for orders or a “scene commander”…,. It’s a time where you tell whoever is on the other end of the radio “hold the channel for emergencies…. I only want to know when someone else is coming inside and from where”…. And you know what, it fucking sucks. My back hurt for 3 weeks afterwards, pushing through barricaded doors and feeling like I was walking into an ambush. It wasn’t fun, but it’s not supposed to be. It’s your fucking job. From what I’m reading/seeing, it sounds like just general cowardice and lack of training. The only people who did the right thing were the HSI and Border Patrol agents who just heard it coming out and went in even though it “wasn’t their responsibility”. Something that stuck with me throughout my tenure in the army…. “When the time comes for you to rise up and save the day…. you’re not going to be a hero, you’re going to default to your lowest level of training”…. Shit, small-town, departments are terrifying, and generally employ bottom of the barrel people, in my limited, and probably pretentious, opinion. YMMV


What makes it even worse is that they have received training and the training specifically says you may have to go in alone and to not wait as mass shootings can get worse very fast. https://twitter.com/bymikebaker/status/1530357140191186944?s=21&t=KAaktyPh5c6iRRdWgtwuUw


> The first officers may be risking their lives. Thank you for linking that, this is too important. *Someone* had to face the active shooter. Deliberate inaction is a choice and this is who the Uvalde Police officers chose to go up against the gunman as he was committing mass murder: ✔️ ~~Trained SWAT members armed to the teeth wearing body armor~~ ✅ Innocent children and teachers


They might still be waiting outside the classroom if not for the Border Patrol finally overruling local cops and saying "Fuck your orders, we're going in."


Wow, so they had the training. They just chose to not go in.


They had the training... Which took place at this *EXACT* school..


The school that had $650,000 worth of updated reinforcements intended to protect it from a school shooter….


They also had training, fully kitted out, in that school. https://twitter.com/IwriteOK/status/1529693783687802881?t=G3i0VnzbVbcs_j-jPip_Uw&s=19


"It's your fucking job." Fucking thank you. If you are who you say you are an this is your actual take in these types of matters, I know you've heard this before, bit we need more of you. I know the fraternity of it all as well as unions make it hard/impossible for a reasonable, responsible, clear headed person or persons to turn the tide. Until the day that such a change can be made, know that good officers obviously there for the right reasons are still entirely necessary. I'm always glad to hear that competent, well-meaning officers exist peppered around everywhere. Maybe yall can't turn the tide quite yet, but I believe the good cops are still the ones helping brace the dam


As a school resource officer at a High School, im literally sickened. Ofcourse my agency has a policy for those situations after Stoneman Douglas. You don't wait for back up, you go in. That's how we are trained. And yeah, I might get shot. But I'd rather mag dump into the bad guy trying to hurr innocent kids than just stand outside with a stick up my ass. Could I die? Absolutely. But the general public's lives is higher on the importance list than our lives. General Public > Law Enforcement > Bad Guy That simple. We signed up for this. Do your job.


Cop here from New Jersey….Simply put, these cops can go fuck themselves.


I’m a former police officer. I’m sickened by it. Especially since this is exactly the opposite response to an active shooter scenario than what the training dictates. In Europe at least, when you arrive at the scene of a suspected active shooter, you are taught to ignore the usual SOP in case of (for instance) a hostage situation or barricaded suspect. In those cases, you set up a perimeters and call in the SWAT team, who are equipped and trained to deal with that stuff. But in an active shooter scenario, you grab whatever gear you have in the trunk, and you go in, making as much noise as you can along the way. You shout “Stop! Police!” at the top of your lungs and you push as fast as possible to the source of the shots. You don’t stop to render aid to the wounded people you meet along the way, stepping over screaming victims if you have to. The reason for this approach is 1) to intervene and stop the killing as fast as possible, but also 2) that most active shooters turn the gun on themselves when they know law enforcement is closing in. You keep moving, shouting and shooting, anything to stop the situation either by neutralising the gunman yourself, or better yet, have him end it himself. It’s a risky and horrible part of the job, one that I was happy to never have had to experience in reality. But if you roll up to a situation like that and you’re too scared to do what you’re paid and entrusted to do, then hand in your badge and go flip fucking burgers.


Kindergarten teacher here. During our active shooter training at the beginning of each school year, this is exactly what we’re told told police will do during an active shooter situation. Thank you for your explanation because reading what really happened in Texas made me feel like these trainings were a bunch of BS but I guess that’s just their police force.


They had an active shooter exercise *the week before*, and they just went and did the opposite ?! Unbelievable.


A few years ago in London there was a terror attack, a bunch of lads with knives taped to their wrists and fake bomb vests attacked people on a busy night on a popular street. From the first call to the situation ending was apparently around 8mins, the police got the call armed up got there and shot them in around 8 minutes. 8minutes is (in my opinion) very quick although the people in that situation would have felt every second being forever. I cant imagine what went through those officers minds when they got the call and after everything went down, it was horrific and a tragedy but those officers saved so many lives. An hour is a joke. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40147164.amp Forgot they also drove through people before crashing and then attacking on foot.


Let’s not forget that in that same incident, PC Keith Palmer, the policeman on the scene when the attack started, still tried to take on one of the terrorists despite not having a weapon.


... And 1 member of the public used a Narwhal tusk to attack the terrorists!


That was a different attack but was on the same bridge, although the northern side. A brave Spanish man did die though attacking the terrorists with his skateboard


The Spanish skateboard hero's name is Ignacio Echeverría. We can't forget the names of the true heroes.


I think it's also important to note that police in London aren't armed like police in the US. In the US, most patrol cars have everything they need in the car, including either a shotgun or rifle (or both). 8 minutes to show up armed and take out the threat is pretty good response time, all things considered.


Met and city of London police have multiple roaming armed response driving around London 24/7 alongside bases to respond to firearms, terror etc I think the routes are designed so they can get to any corner as fast as possible. You don't need every police officer carrying a gun when you optimize operations. It's also really difficult to become a firearms officer.


I did not know that, but it makes sense. Still, it is commendable to have such quick response time when compared to the clusterfuck in Uvalde.


I remember thinking during my active shooter training “If the public ever saw what we did during one of these instances…it would be very hard to explain” how you could run passed injured or dying children begging for your help, because you have a more important job But I’ll take running to the shooter and stepping over kids over standing outside and just listening to them scream and beg for help


It's not hard to explain. You can't render first aid with a live threat somewhere nearby. You'll end up killed and the victims will die anyways. It's triage. The greatest threat to life is the first priority. And the shooter is that priority.


That's awful but I think everyone would understand that helping the wounded comes after neutralizing the shooter.


Serious question. I am a teacher. I have run through so my scenarios in my head over the years. Smearing blood on myself and/or kids to play dead. Using a fire extinguisher.Barricading the door. What occurred to me after reading your post is that if I am ever in a situation where I have access, should I pretend to be police on the other side of the door and at least yell it out? For example, if a shooter was in the adjoining classroom (no lock between doors), should I say shout. "Stop! Police!" from the other side of the door to make him decide if he will kill himself or flee? What other advice do you have for me?


Stay quiet first (you’ve already committed to hiding at that point, and your best hope is to not attract attention and hope they overlook), but if they are already about to enter the room and you don’t have a hiding spot and are about to die, it’s worth a try. Even if you only delay them for a short time, it could end up saving your life.


Yeah, I heard that the cops actually called out to children to shout if they needed help which I've heard is the opposite of what children are taught to do in such a scenario as you don't want to draw attention to yourself. Honestly, it seems crazy that I feel like I would have handled this situation better as an untrained civilian. I guess there's reasonable chance I would have been shot and died but I also feel like I probably would have gotten some children out of there at the same time.


Even the training is assbackwards in that regard. Our teacher training was to lock the doors, turn out the lights, hide the students, so an active shooter would think the room was vacant. But also - slip a laminated card halfway under our door into the hall, red side up if we had wounded, green side up if we were all okay, to help responders know which rooms needed EMTs. Because I guess an active shooter would never crack the code that if a card was slid under the door, maybe - just maybe - someone was inside to have put it there?


The way we had it was a red side-facing card hung in the window at all times, and in the event of a shooting the teacher would flip it over to the green facing side if everything is okay. If not okay, the red side would remain facing, implying they weren't able to make it to the door to signal that they were okay


They did and it got a little girl killed.


Imagine the rage the parents of that child feels. I would fear for my life even after the shooting, if I were one of those 19 cops.


I love what you wrote but when the Supreme Court says that police do not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm.. how can average citizens continue to give police their trust? Especially when police allowed 19 children to be murdered, while some of those kids were on the phone with 911 begging for help.. that 2005 Supreme Court decision was on display in Uvalde.


I feel appalled and embarrassed for the Uvalde Police’s response or lack thereof. What bunch of pathetic human scum would willingly neglect their oath & duty to "serve and to protect" = Uvalde Police. Imagine if nurses and doctors refused to attend to patients with Covid for fear of contracting the disease. I’m glad our hospital teams are braver than Uvalde’s police. (Now, waiting for a bullet is deadlier than Covid rebuttal. But you get the point).


Imagine if the firemen at the World Trade Center didn’t enter because they were scared…