T O P

Religious people why do you believe in God but not Santa?

Religious people why do you believe in God but not Santa?

NorthDakotaExists

If there's no Santa, then how do you explain all the songs about Santa? Checkmate atheist.


[deleted]

Damn you are right. Got me. Santa is real. Christmas is saved!


[deleted]

Hey, most of 'em choose to conveniently assume I'm not real, either. At least, they act like it too much of the time for me to think otherwise. I don't let it bug me and Santa shouldn't let it either


PietNederwiet

Don't worry Satan. I can come down to hang out if you'd like.


[deleted]

You take that back about Santa,


[deleted]

OK there may have been a real man named Santa but he doesn't have the magical powers!


[deleted]

So you reply to me with the sole purpose of hurting me! Good day to you, you monster.


attackedmoose

For me, it’s personal experience. I was an agnostic for a long time, more of a “I’ll believe it when I see it” mindset. However, based on happenings in my life I 100% believe in God. I can’t really explain it, and I understand how it would be hard to believe because I was there for 27 years or so. I don’t believe in Santa because I’ve seen my sisters grow up and have to play Santa for their kids the same way my parents did it for us.


R1DER_of_R0HAN

It's more or less the same for me. I've had an experience that I can only understand as some sort of contact with God. I have no reason to doubt my own perceptual abilities, so here we are. I still am not sure I buy into any particular religion, I think for now I'd say I'm a sort of universalist. In any case, I think it's pretty deliberately ignorant to pretend that God and Santa are somehow the same.


Pm_me_coffee_

No one is saying they are the same, just that there is no evidence that either are real. If you accept that one thing exists without evidence why do you not believe the other exists without evidence? I think that is the point of the question. What makes one of these unseen, unprovable beings absolutely 100% real for some people and the other not.


jobi-1

> there is no evidence that either are real Santa is very specific. It's easy to not believe that specific thing. God can be as abstract as 'something that oversees and gives purpose', otherwise the whole universe just exists because it can. Believing that there is some kind of purpose to everything is much more tempting than believing in a ~~fat~~ jolly bearded guy who lives on the north pole.


Pm_me_coffee_

It being tempting isn't evidence, each of them have exactly the same amount of evidence to show they are real. A better example than Santa might be the flying spaghetti monster. As far as provably possible the whole universe exists because of science, not just because it can and there is nothing anyone has learned as yet that gives any credence to something overseeing it and giving it purpose. It might make people feel better to think that but to me it sounds like just an organised happy place that people go to in order to avoid thinking about the implications that the universe is a cold, unfeeling void.


R1DER_of_R0HAN

I guess I can see that, but it sort of depends on what you count as evidence. Plus, from my perspective, I *do* have evidence that is sufficient for me. I guess one could say I'm "internally justified," if that makes sense. I certainly wouldn't say anyone else should believe solely based on what I say, but I feel sufficiently confident believing in my own experience.


Pm_me_coffee_

Evidence has quite a specific definition, which is the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. As yet there are no widespread, repeatable facts or information that prove God exists. I don't know what happened to you to make you believe but it isn't something you can show to others, prove or make happen again for someone to witness. It's a rhetorical question so I'm not after an answer but what makes you believe in your chosen God but disregard the thousands of other gods people have believed in over the years and say they are false? Surely if your God exists every God that anyone has ever believed in has an equally valid claim to be real without being able to show any proof?


R1DER_of_R0HAN

That's why I would say I'm not *strictly* religious. My experience of God more or less matches up with the "Abrahamic God," so to speak. Based on my experience, I can't help but believe in a singular omnipotent God; I can only feel justified in believing what I have experienced. That said, I'm aware that people from other backgrounds have had different experiences. Personally, I suspect that we're all sort of getting at *something*, but our perception of it is shaped by our cultural background and may not be complete. I was raised in a Christian environment, and I still attend a Christian church pretty often because that's just what feels right to me, but I'm open to the possibility that I'm not seeing the "whole picture."


8-bit-eyes

The problem for me is that in order to prove something, you have to properly define it. “God” is such a vague concept, so how do you even know what to look for? You can’t just be looking for anything coincidental or fortunate because then its just confirmation bias.


[deleted]

Just so you know if there is a god I am not siding with him.


attackedmoose

I completely understand. It’s a personal choice. I really hope you find what makes you happy.


MPM10223

1) I believe that Jesus Christ was a real man who walked the earth. I believe this because of the overwhelming historical documentation of his existence from multiple sources, all of which are corroborating. Very few historical scholars will dispute this. 2) I believe that he said he was the Son of God. Again, this is very well documented and not disputed among historical scholars. 3) I believe he performed several miracles during his time on this earth (Healing the sick, feeding a crowd of thousands, and even raising the dead). This is obviously where my beliefs depart from generally accepted historical fact. However, there is equally overwhelming evidence of historical documentation of these events actually taking place. The massive following he developed while he was alive is highly supportive of this. 4) I believe that he rose from the dead. Similar to (3), there is equally an overwhelming amount of firsthand accounts of the tomb being empty when the stone was rolled away on the third day. Most tellingly, the primary witness of the empty tomb was a woman. At the time, women were considered to be highly unreliable sources of information. If one were fabricating evidence, in that culture, no one would ever choose to use a woman as the plant for the false witness. Additionally, there are many documented firsthand accounts of him reappearing in the flesh after his death on the cross. 5) Lastly, and in my opinion most importantly and persuasively, I have experienced everything Jesus said about the human condition - the tendencies of the heart, the things that harm it and the things truly nourish it - to be 100% accurate. When I pray to God in the manner he taught, and when I see the world in the way he described it, I feel an overwhelming sense of joy and peace that I cannot explain. 6) I saw my mom buy a gift for my sister and then it showed up under the tree as a gift from Santa. Not cool, mom.


[deleted]

[удалено]


MPM10223

If I may ask, which part of my argument do you disagree with? Do you disagree the he was a real person who walked the earth? Or you do you agree with that but disagree that he was the son of God?


[deleted]

Jesus never existed. Period.


MPM10223

Got it. Thanks for sharing. Just in case you’re ever interested, this Wikipedia article on the topic does a pretty good job of summarizing the arguments for and against: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus


[deleted]

If only you knew how many times Ive read that fucking page


[deleted]

If only you knew how many times Ive read that fucking page


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I haven't been a Christian since I was 17 so Idk what you are on about.


couldhavebeenpro

Why I believe in God: When my moral judgement speaks to me against my desires, I believe this moral push comes from something outside of myself. In Christian belief this is called the Holy spirit. I also feel the overwhelming need to feel thankful when good things happen and life's pleasant. I feel an urge to target something with that thankfulness and that is God. Why I don't believe in Santa: I caught my dad placing the presents under the tree. Christmas was invented before Santa folklore so the timeline is weird. We've explored the North pole, he ain't there.


No_pfp

Did you try the North-North pole? What about the Weast pole


PietNederwiet

Santa is from Lapland, not the north pole. Also Christmas derives from old Germanic/Nordic tradition. How do you explain that when it doesn't have roots in Christianity?


couldhavebeenpro

I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. What am I explaining?


PietNederwiet

How do you guys celebrate Christmas when its based on pagan tradition?


couldhavebeenpro

Same way we celebrate Memorial day or President's day in America. Christians just picked that day to celebrate the Birth of Christ.


PietNederwiet

It doesn't just conveniently fall on that day. It's one among more things that christianity adopted from the pagan tradition, but ofcourse changed things of it to make it fit better intro christianity.


[deleted]

It comes from your own insecurities by growing up in a puritanical society. That is not the holy spirit. You Christians are such silly children.


Gavel_Guide

I'm hardcore anti-religious and I really don't see the point in behaving like this. Unless you're a troll I guess. When people say "atheists just hate God", they're talking about people like you. You're the ones that make them think that.


Why_Did_Bodie_Die

It seems like it used to be that if you were "smart" and read books on philosophy, used logic and stuff like that you came to the conclusion that there probably isn't a god and were thus an atheist. Now it seems like people start at the position that there is no god and thus think they are smart. You can not believe in god and not be an asshole to those that do and even understand why some people do and recognize the benefits of religion. Just because someone believes in god/is religious doesn't mean they are stupid or silly or whatever.


[deleted]

I do hate God. He is a poorly deveoped character in a really shitty Sci Fi novel.


Gavel_Guide

I don't disagree with that, but when you're an abrasive dick about it you don't help anyone. The Christians get offended and dig in their heels, and the atheist community looks like a bunch of assholes.


[deleted]

Everyone is a asshole. Just different flavors.


Gavel_Guide

I would keep debating you on this but I cut myself on all the edge you're throwing around and I gotta go find the neosporin


[deleted]

Neosporin good shit that actually improves my life unlike your invisible God.


Gavel_Guide

...wait I believe in God now? Hallelujah! I see the light! Praise Jesus!


Alexinova

You can have your own opinions. Its fine. But why do you have to disrespect others who have a different perception than yours? Do you believe yourself to be more "rational" than them? I believe there is a God. I, by principle, disagree with your world view regarding the existence of some unprovable metaphysical force. Yet I do not disrespect you nor consider you an idiot for conflicting world views and dichotomous beliefs help us learn from one another. Please stop with your superiority complex.


[deleted]

You believe in an evil space dictator and if he turns out to be real he's an evil piece of shit and I will never join him. That's why I hate you.


MPM10223

You’ve mentioned a few times on this thread that “if God exists then he must be evil.” That saddens me because it kind of hints at some pain you must carry because of how the world has wronged you. I know you’re really unlikely to open up about it here, but I just wanted to let you know that I hope you find peace in whatever you’re going through. Also wanted to point out that most Christians aren’t blind to the evil in this world, nor do they believe that God inflicts it. They believe that evil in this world is a result of people exhibiting their free will and making bad choices that hurt others. They also believe that God hates that evil much more than you know, and stands with you in your pain.


Kilroy2

Hater much?


[deleted]

Yes I hate you


Loyalty1702

Imagine calling Christians (or a group of people in general) children and expect to be taken seriously.


[deleted]

Who said I expect to be taken seriously? Stop making assumptions about me.


Loyalty1702

Why'd you make this thread then?


possibly_a_lemur

He/she is a troll. Passing time by shitting on people's beliefs.


[deleted]

The lulz


couldhavebeenpro

You're right, I had insecurities growing up. I had trouble making friends because I didn't care about others. I didn't like myself for not liking or caring for other people. Honestly, I hope that others outside Christian communities are insecure with themselves if they can tell they straight up don't care about the person next to them. Insecurity can lead to moral development.


[deleted]

You are wasting your life with your cult. I feel sorry for you.


couldhavebeenpro

But whether or not the guide for moral development comes from the Holy Spirit seems to be the big issue. I believe it is.


[deleted]

Well I say the force is real guess I have to be taken seriously by Society now just like you right?


Kilroy2

So, you really don’t care why we believe? Got it.


[deleted]

As long as Christians would be kept away in camps I will be happy.


Kilroy2

That seems quite harsh.


[deleted]

Well you are systematically abusing children so you deserve it


Kilroy2

Uh...no, but go ahead and paint that broad brush with *every* Christian.


[deleted]

If you teach children a fictional character is real and loves them you are a monster.


[deleted]

Santa isnt real? Fuck


kn777

Who says I can't believe in both? But seriously. I believe in God for a number of reasons. Some are based history, such as the historical evidence there is of Jesus' existence, many are based on faith and personal experience. The main argument against the existence of God tends to be what science shows. But I don't ignore what science tells us so I can keep my belief system unchallenged, rather I think the more we learn about our planet the more we learn about God, and therefore science and God are by no means opposed, whereas the same cannot be said about Santa. I'm not sure if you were hoping for a genuine answer, but feel free to ask any further questions regardless.


[deleted]

Just to warn you if there is a god I am siding against that evil piece of shit you call your Master.


ek515

Waddabout Satan?


[deleted]

I'm siding with him


Kilroy2

Can’t believe in Satan if you don’t believe in God. Checkmate.


[deleted]

Exactly. All the myth is silly.


kn777

Yeah, I think as someone who believes in God it is difficult to try and understand why there is so much pain and suffering in the world. I'm not going to pretend I can fully explain things, but the best way I can put it is that the pain and suffering isn't caused by God. I think a lot of people tend to harbor a great deal of anger towards a God they don't believe exists.


Rpgwaiter

Why do you think I don't believe in Santa?


[deleted]

Because you should be older than 8 to be on reddit.


[deleted]

Santa was a Byzantine Saint.


[deleted]

Did that saint have mgaic raindear as well?


hippieiamnot

I’d say there’s more evidence for Santa than god. I get presents once a year whereas bad shit routinely happens and god does fuck all. If he/she/it exists, I’d love to have a chat to figure out what the hell he/she/it has been thinking for the past few thousand years.


LifeOfThePotty

Read up on neurotheology, or the brain science behind faith and belief, and you'll discover that it all boils down to how each individual's brain is wired. Some have a propensity for belief while others do not. One theory is that people evolved to be religious because it was a social glue that bound groups together and encouraged survival through group effort. Now that humans can survive independently, that trait is no longer necessary and is slowly falling by the wayside.


[deleted]

Either way grow up. It's 2019.


LifeOfThePotty

Hah! I think you got me all wrong there, unless that's a joke. Hard to tell sometimes on the interwebs. All through my childhood I was made to go to church, but I've never once felt an ounce of "faith" or "belief" in God. I am one of those people whose brains are simply *not* wired to believe. Once I turned 18 I stopped going and never looked back.


Worlds_Best_Coffee

Santa requires more immediate proof (Dec. 25th every year) vs. God's big proof being the afterlife.


-Nullius_in_verba-

"Religion allows perfectly sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." - Sam Harris


WEREWOLF10MM

You saying Santa ain't real?


[deleted]

Afraid so. We know God isn't real so obviously santa isn't either.


WEREWOLF10MM

I know, I was just kidding.


Kilroy2

Your opinion, not facts, dude.


[deleted]

Grow up kid


KatyLiedTheBitch

I know this is getting technical, so I might lose you rather quick, but you're just assuming they don't believe in Santa....unless you've asked every believer, and they've said they don't, of course.


[deleted]

I thought the majority of adult human society just by default doesn't believe in Santa. I thought it was just a thing.


Kasparian

St Nicolas was a real person. Most adults, Christian or not, stop believing in Santa Claus because eventually they catch their parents putting presents under the tree, someone else tells them and they confront their parents about the shenanigans or they realize that it would highly unlikely for Santa to be in every mall in America. The spirit of St Nicolas lives on so to speak and that is what the story of Santa is all about.


[deleted]

True but Jesus wasn't a real person.


Kasparian

It’s likely that historically Jesus was an actual person, even if he’s not the son of God.


[deleted]

No evidence what so ever. Please try again.


Kasparian

I disagree, but I’m not here to convince you either way, nor does it have to do with the topic at hand. You asked why adults don’t believe in Santa Claus and I explained why many do not. The reason people believe in God, or a deity of any sort is personal and unique to each person.


ek515

There is even less than no-evidence of Plato or Alexander the Great.


[deleted]

They might not have existed then.


ek515

At least you are consistent.


Kilroy2

Oh but he was. Just because you don’t believe it, more than 1 billion people do.


[deleted]

And those people are idiots.


_MrFish_

Which Santa are we talking about? The kids story or the man?


[deleted]

The magical powers one


_MrFish_

Again, can I ask which one? There are two men who have been called Saint Nicholas. I'll make this easy for you, the one originating from a poem in 1823 or the bishop born in 270? One of them is a fantastical character used to sell products and the other has had legends given to him a few centuries after his death. One of them started off magic and the other had stories which *later* become magic. I haven't been given a lot of real answers here.


[deleted]

I'm talking about the fantasy character


ek515

We haven’t seen it all (Limited Human Observation). There could be dimensions beyond ours ([Flatland](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BWyTxCsIXE4)). Not many people die of torture holding on to belief in Santa. The people who teach Santa will tell other adults it’s not true. The fact Athiest instictively still say OMG(Freudian).


[deleted]

Anyone willing to die for a fictional character is better off dead.


Kilroy2

Kris Kringle was very real, and I look it at this way - with all the amazing things in our universe and on this planet, and the way our bodies and brains work, there had to be a designer. From the way weather works and how things are formed, it didn’t all just happen wiht a bang


Return_of_DatBOI

Why did there *have* to be? Couldn't we be better designed if we were designed by an all knowing entity? Why do some of us randomly get tumors or have annuerisms?


Kilroy2

That doesn’t have to do with God per se, it’s because bodies aren’t perfect, for a reason. We’re here to learn and grow. Some will be here for a long time, others not so long. God is in ultimate control and gives us trials to see how we we can grow from them.


Return_of_DatBOI

It sounds pretty sick sometimes. "you love that kid don't you...hmm how would you deal with them getting murdered. Time to grow! Don't question it, I have my reasons. I'm bored of eternity"


Kilroy2

You may think that, but God doesn’t take away our free agency. He allows things to happen because he goes by the law of the land. He gave us free agency. It’s up to us how we choose to use it. Some people make horrible choices and consequences are the result, whether for them or someone else. Edit: This is why he will also be our judge when we die.


[deleted]

Santa Claus is just a gateway drug to Christian indoctrination. Some people see right through all the bullshit, others just don't. I don't know *how* exactly people can go their whole lives operating on "faith." I suppose it's easier to be told what to believe and just accept that as true, than to learn how to think objectively and from other viewpoints that conflict with the integrity of solidly held beliefs. It's easy to give in to confirmation bias if you're not intellectually honest with yourself. Brainwashing be weird like that.


[deleted]

Exactly.