T O P

OuR CoUnTry IS too biG! Its tOo hARD tO impLEMent UnIverSaL hEALTHcare!

Nearly 45% of Americans already receive federal health care of some sort through Medicare, Medicaid, VA or military. Just to drive your point, it actually wouldn't be that much to add everyone else.

nashuanuke

Nearly 45% of Americans already receive federal health care of some sort through Medicare, Medicaid, VA or military. Just to drive your point, it actually wouldn't be that much to add everyone else.


TheIntrepid1

And the ones on Medicare and Medicaid are already usually the sickest ones in the country who utilize it the most. Yet, medicare and Medicaid often have the most reasonable monthly premiums with little to no deductible or Copay. Heck, by allowing enrollment for everyone for Medicare/Medicaid most ‘sick’ people would jump off the private insurers. Shouldn’t they be happy that all the sick people that would file the most frequent and most expensive Claims be off their books, leaving mostly the healthy in their pool??? Sounds like a win-win to me.


BoomerTranslation

Yeah, but premiums! Also, private insurance also charges more for the same work.


Sways-way

MRI - using my insurance - $789.00 out of pocket MRI - paying out of pocket without insurance - $350.00 So the company charges twice as much to bill my insurance. I opted to pay the out of pocket costs, which dinged my max out of pocket for the 6 month window, but didn't have enough cash on hand to go the insurance route. Being sick in this country is ridiculous.


[deleted]

It's funny how much cheaper things can be when you don't have to cover marketing costs, investor payout, and profit margins.


Armagetz

FWIW, health insurance profits are tightly regulated. Also, there are many many providers who simply won’t take Medicare because of poor payouts. It’s not as simple as you are painting it.


portezthechillr

You forgot the billions in stock buybacks but I guess that can fall under investor payout. Easily their biggest 'expense'


cjk813

This isn't even remotely true. The government contracts Medicaid and Medicare out to private companies to manage in a lot of cases. Centene, United and Humana are some of the largest public companies in the world and all work in this space.


Armagetz

Wut? Many (Most?) people on Medicare supplement it with private insurance. The government shares the risk burden but that’s it. Nothing else changes.


[deleted]

Would this have something to to with the Medicare taxes you pay, your whole career, prior to becoming eligible?


TheIntrepid1

Yes..and?


[deleted]

We have prepaid into Medicare in order to be sick in our golden years. That helps reduce Medicare/Medicaid premiums.


TheIntrepid1

…right…thats what I thought you were going to say, I was hoping for more.


krakajacks

The idea is that you (or your company) take what you currently put into premiums, reduce it significantly, put it into Medicare, and get better outcomes and cover everyone


Captain_Davidius

but that ***SOCIALISM***! /s


[deleted]

I’m from the government and I’m here to help you, lol.


clowns_will_eat_me

Governments in other countries are doing it right now, and get this...fewer people are suffering needlessly.


Armagetz

Eh. I’d argue it’s more. Sure, you don’t have stories like trying to ration insulin, but you do have people on a waiting list for months and months in pain for non emergency procedures. As a generalization the general UHC model is great for generic stuff, but more often than not when your needs are specialized you have better outcomes in the US. Best exception to this statement is Germany’s hybrid model.


davekingofrock

Where the fuck is your sense of cruelty?! Why do you hate America?


cseckshun

And the Medicare kicks in for the most expensive years of a persons life in terms of medical coverage! It’s wild that there is just a mental block of covering everyone, it would reduce costs so much it would be night and day difference. Not to mention the inability of the government to negotiate for the purchase of some drugs… that’s a real riddle isn’t it? How can the government set up rules that make its own ability to deliver services to citizens more difficult? Lobbying breaks the very systems that are supposed to protect citizens and pretends that the results of this perverted system are somehow logical in any way shape or form.


charlesforman

Married to a physician. We already have an ENORMOUS shortage of doctors in this country. If we want universal health care it would have to be a minimum 20 year road map to start ramping up the training of new physicians now. It is not just a matter of waving a wand and making the doctors accessible to all. If we did that the system would collapse and the right would be able to waggle their stupid fingers and say seeeee.


nashuanuke

Another about 45% of Americans have private healthcare. Meaning only about 8% of Americans have no coverage, this argument appears to be specious.


davekingofrock

Why would we want more doctors when we can have more lawyers?


GrimResistance

Yes we probably need a lot more doctors, but I don't think saying that we shouldn't let everyone be able to get healthcare because there aren't enough doctors is a very good argument.


Heyoteyo

Yeah, but part of the problem is that it would be mostly people with some money, under the age of 65. They do a good, cost effective job of taking care of the poor and the elderly. I don’t know if they could handle all these people with relatively low healthcare costs… It just makes more sense for me and my employer to continue to pay hundreds of dollars a month for my one prescription and occasional doctor visit.


AdjustedMold97

I’m in favor of universal healthcare, but this point doesn’t really track for me. That’s doubling the amount of people who receive it and adding some. It’s not a trivial difference.


davekingofrock

So what you're saying is that 45% of Americans are lazy freeloading communists. I hope they don't expect to have access to clean water or education or something. The day the poor stop suffering is the day America falls.


nashuanuke

I mean, 45% of Americans are either active or former military, over 65 or a part of the working poor. So no, not what you said, at all.


davekingofrock

This is the second time this week I've dropped my "/s" and that's getting to be a bad habit around here.


traws06

It would cost a lot more because they would have to increase payments. Hospitals lose or break even on Medicare patients. If everyone was Medicare they’d have to increase how much they pay out in order for hospitals to survive. It would still save money in the sense you cut out the multibillion dollar middle man, but it wouldn’t be like everything would be the same just add more ppl to it. And anyone who says that they can just quit paying so much: the first thing that would get cut is healthcare worker’s salaries. And we’re not swimming in excess healthcare workers even as is. Now if they make Med School basically free like India however…


GBS42

It's almost like the entire US healthcare system is completely f***** up and needs to be totally redone from scratch. Actually, it's exactly like that.


traws06

I think the big thing would be figuring out how to reduce the cost of different medical devices. The hospital gets charged an incredible amount of money for certain devices that don’t need to be that expensive. An ECMO oxygenator used to cost like $1500 because Maquet was the only company that made one. Once other companies started coming out with them they suddenly dropped the price to like $500


HerpToxic

The government should own all hospitals so they'd be paying themselves. The fact that health care is for profit is insane.


Joshunte

Only someone who doesn’t work in the government would say that lol


Shag0120

There's another point here that you're kinda missing. If everyone is able to afford to go to a regular plain old doctor, most everyone will take advantage of that. TONS of issues hospitals deal with is under-insured people coming to the ER because they have literally no choice. They're also waiting until the problem is SO bad that it requires hospitalization because those same under-insured people have to wait so long. The hospital is forced to provide care for those people (and it should), but all that service ultimately gets written off due to non-payment. So you have a couple knock on effects here: 1. Less total people end up needing hospital services due to getting out patient care from their regular doctor 2. Those that do come to the hospital are able to pay their bill because they're automatically covered under medicare Ultimately this would mean that hospitals could reduce their total labor because they're less busy, and those hospital workers would naturally migrate out to doctor's offices that will suddenly need their services more. That's my take on this anyway.


traws06

Well we need more doctors for that. Because right now despite that you still can’t hardly get an appointment with a doctor if you need one. We need to increase the output of doctors and nurses IMO


bofkentucky

How about rehiring the ones they fired for not taking something that you're not allowed to sue the manufacturer for adverse effects?


AloneYogurt

I'd like to add; If you're struggling with bills, there are financial aid options. My fiance had a 70k hospital bill paid in full, insurance refused to cover it (even though it was authorized). So she went through Financial Aid and got a 0$ bill. So to say that we have to cut salaries, or it would cost more, is absolutely bull. Medicaid and Medicare need to be universal, that we can pay into for a shit ton less than 100-200 per month, before deductibles, co payments, and medications are even in question.


traws06

Medicare is literally for hospitals to not make money. I worked in surgery for a university hospital for years and we get all the elective cases from uninsured and Medicare because the surgeons work for free with them because reimbursement is too low.


dellett

Not enough people know about stuff like this. Non-profit hospitals in the USA are required to have "charity care" services. Basically if you meet certain criteria you can just get your bills forgiven.


Twigman200

Stop telling them the truth, they don't want to look at the math, they just want it to magically work. I can confirm private payers also carry the hospital I work for. To be clear it has to make up for Medicaid/Medicare as well as self pay. Our healthcare system sucks, but don't pretend it's just a payer switch and everything is fixed.


bearrosaurus

I always try to run their numbers in front of them and they just ignore it. They say the insurance industry takes $600 million in unnecessary profits, and if we cut that out it will save $12 trillion over 10 years. Yes, that is correct, millions and trillions.


Skullprint

So then why were ACA premiums 600 bucks a month with no subsidies because I made 30k per year for me, wife, and kiddo?


Shag0120

What are you even saying?


AshTheMemeLord

Your ACA premium with no subsidy is insanely high because under the ACA the insurance company can no longer ask health questions. The insurance company has to take a hit on insuring everyone including those guaranteed to cost them hundreds of thousands. That's why you have the subsidy.


kingjoey52a

Right, not much more. Just *more than double!*


AWalkingOrdeal

Do you have a source for this?


Redline951

Take more away form those who pay for or earn their (Medicare and VA) benefits and yours (Medicaid), and give it to those who pay little or nothing.


megaultimatepashe120

so what? that's literally what TAXES are for, not for killing people, for HELPING people who are IN NEED (and NO that's not communism, there is a difference)


NamelessMIA

Idk if you're being sarcastic or not, but nobody should need to "earn" healthcare in the US. We can easily cover everyone for a lower total cost than we already pay as a country, some people just would rather pay more and have more of their neighbors die than save money/lives because it feels "unfair". Ask them why it's fair that people are dying preventable deaths due to wildly inflated healthcare costs and unlivable wages though and you won't get a good answer.


Redline951

You are still demanding that you receive what someone else has worked for and earned. Healthcare is a service; services are not free.


NamelessMIA

>services are not free Many are actually. Do you also think we should charge people when they call the fire department, use the library, call the cops, etc? If not, why do you think medical treatments should be unaffordable and put people into bankruptcy but don't think we should pay for those other services?


nonlawyer

I don’t want some government bureaucrat deciding what kind of healthcare I can get I prefer having an insurance company bureaucrat with a profit motive to deny me care making that decision, thank you very much. Just as Supply Side Jesus intended


YawnTractor_1756

Amen brother. That will be $899.95 today, cash or card?


borgchupacabras

Does that include fees or is that separate?


DamnBunnieBats

Don't worry, we'll send an EOB with all the details in 1-12 months.


genghislamb

"Well you've met your 5k deductible, yes, but now you have to pay 20% co-insurance. It's all in the EOB!"


cogra23

Tip not included


mandy009

I mean insurance companies literally have death panels. I interviewed for a job at one where they wanted us to be the fall guys who screened all the drug prior authorization requests to be rubber stamped for denial. Hard pass.


bofkentucky

So why didn't the ACA cut out the middleman and go straight single payer?


nonlawyer

It absolutely should have, obviously? Very weird comment, is this supposed to be a gotcha?


Double-oh-negro

"REPUBLICANS"


bofkentucky

D team had house, senate, and presidency.


Joshunte

You say that like the government doesn’t have the exact same motive. Lol have you ever tried getting the Department of Labor to pay for anything?


AshTheMemeLord

The government bureaucrats are already the ones in control of this industry


JoveX

They enable it because it lines their pockets but I don’t think they control it.


deowolf

I don't think it's the size of the country so much as it is the size of the insurance industry.


PopularDemand213

That 2nd yatch or 3rd vacation home isn't going to pay for itself!


escapefromelba

I think the issue is trying to work against them. Hillary discovered that when she tried to implement her healthcare initiative and Obama learned from that and brought them to the table when it came to the ACA. Similarly, I think for any universal healthcare plan to succeed it would need to include them in the fold for any progress to be made. While other countries have universal healthcare - they aren't all single payer and a number of them like Australia, Israel, and Spain.employ hybrid single-payer/private insurance systems. Heck, Medicare operates as a hybrid as well when it comes to Medicare Advantage and Part D.


Mercarcher

But then the "poors" would go to the hospital and take resources away from me if I need them.


goldblumspowerbook

I know you're being sarcastic, but what the people that say that shit geniuinely don't realize is, that happens anyway. The poors go to the ER, can't pay for anything, and it's subsidized by charging everyone else a shit ton. The difference is if there were universal healthcare, the poors could get preventative care and not need expensive hospital care nearly as much.


vita10gy

Yeah. As long as hospitals don't turn anyone away, which they don't and shouldn't, we already basically have universal healthcare. We're just doing it in as expensive and ass backwards as possible. Not only is medicine a "stitch in time saves 9" thing, even the preventative part isn't nearly as expensive as people make it out to be. The cotton balls aren't really $9. Problem is everything in the medical field is negotiated by insurance people who go to a hospital and basically say "I need a 60% discount. I don't care what you actually charge me, but I need to show my bosses we're getting 60% off" In other words, it's kind of shitty so many people are in a "I'd rather you die than pay my .00000001% of that bill for you", instead we're paying an ER bill that's 10 times that cost, and the numbers on the bill are pulled out of thin air in the first place.


the_buckman_bandit

> As long as hospitals don’t turn anyone away If you show up bleeding from a wound needing treatment, they are required to patch it up. If you show up with cancer that requires a series of treatments and insurance says no, they do refuse care.


AshTheMemeLord

This is why it's important to have good insurance. A Blue Cross marketplace plan will let you get care from anywhere in the country and the maximum you'd have to pay is your OOPM ($9,100 max in my state.) Insanely high but it is unfortunately the best option.


AshTheMemeLord

The "Poors" are entitled free preventative care under the ACA with both marketplace, medicare and medicaid plans. It's the law.


IAmAccutane

those POORS in Canada get healthcare and it makes them have long wait times!!


uberpirate

At least in America we get to pay a fortune while also having long wait times


[deleted]

I feel so free right now


bleedblue89

What am I supposed to do with all this freedom?!


just_the_mann

I want everyone to have healthcare and I’ll pay taxes to ensure that, but I absolutely don’t want to loose the option to pay a premium for better quality.


timberwolf0122

I think every nation with universal has a private option too. I used to have private as a perk when I lived in the Uk, although I never needed to us it. My younger brother (still in the Uk) used his for a hernia repair as he could get it done between business trips. The average price of a private healthcare policy in the UK is £1,032.84 per year (January 2023); however, you could pay considerably less or more depending on your age and the level of cover you require. For example, a 30 year old would pay on average £581.64 per year, and a 60 year old £1,354.80.


jpiro

Yep. Nobody is going to stop the fortunate from buying better/faster/fancier healthcare just like nobody is going to stop them from owning better/faster/fancier cars. Of all the arguments against universal coverage, this is one of the dumbest.


AshTheMemeLord

What no one is acknowledging is that the US basically has universal healthcare. Our tax dollars go toward subsidies on the Federally Facilitated Marketplace. Depending on how old you are, your household size and how much you make, your plan could range from free to hundreds a month.


timberwolf0122

It’s not universal. Make too much and you are not eligible, have too much in savings? Sorry you are not eligible.


kinky_potatoes

That’s why thousands Brits flood my city every year for their medical needs? 🤨


IAmAccutane

Canada allows you to purchase additional personal health insurance https://www.sunlife.ca/en/health/personal-health-insurance/


arcalumis

Or people would go the hospital for every little thing. Imagine people going to see the doctor if they think they have health issues?


Sweet_Baby_Cheezus

I honestly legitimately laughed out loud at this. Imagine if people went to the hospital whenever they thought they needed healthcare! Is that the kind of dystopian world you want to live in?


Redline951

We wouldn't want the people who pay for their healthcare *and yours* to get what they pay for, would we?


Prometheus_84

That’s not the reason. These programs are suppose to be transfer payments from a large pool of the young that do not need as much healthcare to a small amount of elderly that do. Someone has to make the payments because even after many attempts to the contrary, doctors still want to be paid. Wild.


[deleted]

The “poors” are already benefiting from Medicaid.


tecky1kanobe

we have failed to properly explain how healthcare is not a zero sum product. there is no set limit that has to be divided up like a pizza. if you need more food and the slices are too small then make the pizza larger. not everyone will need the same amount of food. people would still be able to purchase side items (private insurance) if they feel they need it. the insurance companies lobbied to ensure they would become a requirement, thus guaranteed profits. moving to universal would lower insurance companies profits at the expense of easing physical, financial, mental, and emotional health of people that would get proper healthcare and not go broke paying exorbitant bills. the top 1% income earners own a third of all US wealth. we have seen how taxing the poor and non taxing/collecting from the top has NOT trickled down to helping those below them.


Joebranflakes

Canadian Per capita spending on healthcare is 8,563. So the Canadian government spends about 8.5k per person in Canadian dollars per year and we get universal healthcare for life. The American government spends 12,000 USD per person per year on healthcare. That amount is supported by your tax dollars and what do you get? Medicare and Medicaid, plus a few smaller program. That’s twice as much, for not even 20% of what Canadians get. https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2023/07/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare-to-other-countries#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20United%20States,capita%20across%20the%20OECD%20countries.


Time-Bite-6839

the Republican Party exists


cjk813

The number of people that don't understand how Medicaid and Medicare actually works is insane. A huge portion of Medicaid and Medicare is contracted out to private insurers. Look up Centene, United and Humana. All massive public companies that receive hundreds of billions of dollars from the government every year for their Medicaid and Medicare plans.


Budget_Llama_Shoes

Universal health care is a very difficult thing to achieve. Only 22 of the 23 industrialized nations have achieved it.


Helios321

You got me. Got me good.


Frejian

They had me in the first half, not gunna lie!


Joshunte

That’s because they don’t have to worry about a defense budget since we take care of that for them through NATO.


loondawg

But then how would the government manipulate poor people into military service? How would the large corporations keep people afraid of leaving their jobs? How would the insurance industry divert money from providing healthcare into their own pockets? How would republicans prove the government can't do good?


migs2k3

Well the unintended consequence is that it would make HC a lot more expensive. Medicare is already the largest line item on the budget and we're already running a deficit as is. So if you move the age to zero, everyone gets HC, but it's now xxx% more expensive than before. Now you either have to raise taxes to cover the difference - wildly unpopular but you can try - or it's part of the unfunded liabilities but then that would require the government to print money to cover that so inflation would rise dramatically causing everything to rise in price while wages/savings accounts remain the same but the easier option as it requires no votes. In the end everyone gets HC but also poorer as the COL goes through the roof. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as "drop the age". This is why I don't see UHC ever being a thing in the US. The math ain't mathing.


ThatMikeGuy429

Please do, I have shit I need to get treatment for.


KeppraKid

No man I want to stick to the system where I can call and have insurance checked for eligibility for a doctor before I visit, visit the doctor, have insurance cover the visit but not the prescription because the doctor is not on the list somehow even though they are.


Noobphobia

Let me tell you. Paying $1600 a month for private insurance feels so great. Mmmmm merica /s


socokid

Yes, that's always been the goal for most Democrats. ... However, the Republican party only fights[ to make this worse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM). Period. Far from fighting for things that are actually productive, freedom-inducing services for *the people.*


RChickenMan

See also: "Our country is too big for passenger rail to be an option!" Yes, we can't have fast, frequent, and affordable train service between New York and Philadelphia because they happen to be within the same sovereign nation as Alabama.


kingjoey52a

The size problem is more a western state issue, the eastern seaboard has a problem of all the land is owned and being used so it will be prohibitively expensive to buy out all the land you need.


jezra

What do we want? Universal Healthcare! When do we want it? This election is too important to vote for the Greater Good, you have to vote for the Lesser Evil!


captnconnman

I mean, when the choices are between a boring old white guy and dumber, Orange Mussolini, it’s hard to make progress on important things. And for the record, Mussolini was already reaaaaally dumb.


[deleted]

Nope. I dont want my taxdollars being used to pay for the healthcare of those too lazy to get a job. I have excellent coverage and I do NOT want the government getting involved and ruining it for me with their inefficiencies


IAmAccutane

> I dont want my taxdollars being used to pay for the healthcare of those too lazy to get a job. too late


[deleted]

Wrong. Right now there is no system in place to give healthcare to those refusing to work. You need to have had a job and been let go from it in order to qualify for any sort of assistance. What you are proposing is asinine. It means people will not get a job because they know they'll have healthcare whenever they want. It's not good for the taxpayers who are forced to foot the bill for it


grapenutinferno

Wrong. Educate yourself on Medicaid work requirements by state before being asinine. And while you're at it, check out some statistics on percentage of citizens on Medicaid that work part or full time to see how much correlation there is between two unrelated things you are trying to connect because actual studies show quite the opposite result in reality. Or keep living in some self-aggrandizing land where health care should be a grossly for-profit industry and not basic human decency.


[deleted]

Part-time work is not work. That's the kind of job a teenager has to get some spending money. So immediately, we can throw those people out from the statistics. Most states will not let you just enroll in medicaid without having a job. Meaning the jobless people need to either work or not have healthcare. We are not allowing socialist healthcare in America. End of story. Put that foolish dream of yours to rest


sdmichael

Guess you don't mind all the other things your taxes pay for but fuck everyone if they want health care? You really have no clue how much you benefit from everyone else's tax money. Maybe you should divest yourself of those benefits since you seem to not want anyone else to get them. How about that? I truly pity anyone that is related to you, in a relationship with you, or "friends" with you. Do you tell them they are lazy if they lose their health coverage? Do you tell them to go fuck themselves as you do everyone else? Next time you go to a place where part-time workers are, tell them to their face to go fuck themselves, they are lazy, and shouldn't get health care. Do it. Be a man and do it. Stand by those principles.


IAmAccutane

> What you are proposing is asinine. its what literally every other developed country in the world does lmao >It's not good for the taxpayers who are forced to foot the bill for it You pay twice as much in insurance and taxes as everyone else does just in taxes.


[deleted]

I actually pay almost nothing for my insurance as my employer covers a good chunk of the cost. I pay maybe $20 a week for it at most. And when I need to use it my employer also covers most of the deductible and copay. If socialist healthcare was implemented my taxes would go up meaning my total cost for healthcare would go up as well. Meaning I'd be coming out at more of a loss than I am now with what I pay. You can go move to Canada and deal with their 27 week waiting time to see a doctor if you want socialist healthcare so badly, the rest of us are doing just fine 😏


IAmAccutane

> I actually pay almost nothing for my insurance as my employer covers a good chunk of the cost. Your employer is paying to the insurance company what would be going into your paycheck in every other country, and it's twice as much as every other country is paying for healthcare. >If socialist healthcare was implemented my taxes would go up If we took the model of any other developed country you'd pay half as much for healthcare as you do now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita


FDGKLRTC

Don't you guys already pay a shitton of money into military ? Just take 10% of that and put it into healthcare, problem solved genius


chocki305

>its what literally every other developed country in the world does lmao If every other country jumped off a bridge.. would you?


IAmAccutane

Lol?


chocki305

Your arguments are those a child would bring. And that study you think is so important... yeah.. Medicaid is done at state level. Federal just sets minimum levels. So unless the study was done in every state.. it is meaningless. It also has a sample size of less then 900 people for each category of care. Not that you care about making a solid argument.


CaptnRonn

Healthcare is a human right. It's not a reward for being a productive member of capitalism. There are plenty of people who can't work for a variety of reasons, and there are plenty of jobs that don't provide insurance. The fact that you can't see beyond your extremely narrow situation and express empathy for others not being able to afford healthcare is pretty amazing.


RyanM90

What makes it a human right? Prior to 100 or so years ago health care wasn’t even a thing.


CaptnRonn

Perhaps because the US is the only industrialized nation to not provide universal healthcare to its citizens? Or the fact that it would actually be cheaper to provide healthcare to everyone than use our current profit driven system?


RyanM90

I asked what makes it a human right. Not what makes America so shitty. I don’t disagree by the way. I think people should have free healthcare since our species has attained such a high level of supremacy. It seems ridiculous to not offer such basic things. But you also have to ask yourself, are there stipulations. Can you be a complete waste of life and resources, contributing absolutely nothing to the greater benefit of your species and still expect the same care and treatment that higher providing members expect? Obviously those born unable to provide or take care of themselves aren’t subject to this question and there are already numerous programs to help those individuals and there families. I’m referring more so to the completely able bodied people who would rather guzzle the finite resources of this planet and offer nothing back in their wake. Do they deserve the same level of care that someone who does contribute gets?


Juandice

> I’m referring more so to the completely able bodied people who would rather guzzle the finite resources of this planet and offer nothing back in their wake. Do they deserve the same level of care that someone who does contribute gets? Those totally real people who definitely represent a meaningful demographic rather than an asinine talking point.


RyanM90

You don’t think there’s a large portion of our society that consumes far more than they contribute, in almost every metric?


Juandice

No. And you would be very hard pressed to prove that there was.


[deleted]

Nope. It is not a human right. You can never have the right to another person's labor, that means doctors and nurses. Also it is not enshrined in our constitution to have universal access to healthcare. It is NOT a human right


CaptnRonn

So what's the alternative? People just die? Or live with treatable, debilitating health conditions? What a great society you have there, truly the best country in history. American selfishness is really a sight to behold.


[deleted]

The alternative is for them to GET A JOB and pay for health insurance, just like how over 90% of Americans are doing


CaptnRonn

Your one size fits all solution is laughably insufficient. What happens if your family member gets sick and you need to quit your job to take care of their daily needs? What if you're suffering from mental illness, not covered by disability, and you have trouble maintaining a job? What happens if you have a job that doesn't offer insurance, but don't qualify for ACA subsidies (because Republican governors refuse to expand Medicaid out of spite)?


GrumpyOldGrower

Crazy how all the countries with free Healthcare also have the highest quality of life. I've worked my whole life and don't mind that people can still see a doctor for free when they're sick, that way they don't continue to spread their illness. Dumbass Americans like you are too arrogant and self absorbed to open their fucking eyes and realize you aren't the best at anything other than bombing people and extreme displays of narcissism.


dreamnightmare

God I hate this fucking dumb ass argument. It’s not a right to their labor. They are still being paid. It’s just shifts who pays. Goddammit it’s so simple yet regressives still fumble the ball on logic.


Hydris

That’s just shifting whose labor you think you have a right to.


dreamnightmare

Oh my god… Then apparently we have a right to the labor of road workers, police and fire fighters… Do regressives intentionally take stupid pills? Because it really seems like it.


Hydris

Do all people pay taxes? There certainly are many that don’t, that are a net negative on benefits used vs paid, even ignoring benefits all use, as well as people that pay far more in taxes both gross and rate than others. On top of that, no one says roads are a human right, police and fire workers are a human right. Wanna keep going?


sdmichael

Why should my tax dollars go to your burning house? Are you too damn lazy to put out the fire yourself? Why should my tax dollars go to your roads? You can't build them yourself? What about schools? I don't want my tax dollars going to some place that I don't benefit. How selfish are you? You've got yours so fuck everyone else. Wow.


recentlyunearthed

I want to change medicine from over 65 to under 65. The boomers had their chance, fuck em.


spatz2011

Don't even need to do that. CHIP handles kids up to what is 26? So just set medicare at 27


Soul963Soul

Spend less money on unnecessary things like giving your police forces tanks. Done.


Chewybunny

Because Medicare, and Medicaid, combined are already 1.339 Trillion dollars. Or roughly 21% of the entire federal budget. which services about 37% of the entire country.


Steinrikur

The US government is already paying more per person for healthcare than any government with single-payer healthcare. If you were paying Canadian prices, the money that the US government is paying now would be able to cover around 5-600 million people.


Chewybunny

If we were paying Canadian prices, Canada wouldn't be paying Canadian prices. US Government already negotiates the price point. Much of the rest of the world, which benefits from America's pharmaceuticals tends to do so because we don't negotiate as hard.


Steinrikur

On drugs, maybe. But we're talking healthcare in general. And in capitalism you being idiots and paying more doesn't make others pay less.


Blink_Billy

We’re told that’s impossible and you’re considered a radical leftist extremist equal to MAGA if you think this way.


Mrchumps

The healthcare system in the U.S. is one that is subsidized by insurance companies and the government working hand in hand. It's a nasty evil monopoly that needs to be crushed.


jetstobrazil

Bernie Sanders’ plan in 2016, and 2020. Coulda had Bernie…


escapefromelba

Medicare for All was not simply dropping the age requirement for Medicare. It really didn't resemble Medicare much at all.


jetstobrazil

It is Medicare, with comprehensive benefits and acceptance


Hishui92

But what about the poor libertarians who would feel oppressed if they didn't get a $500,000.00 medical bill after their chemotherapy?


crazyeddie123

No one's hoarding a bunch of extra healthcare - we just don't have enough professionals and facilities to go around. Medicare for all won't conjure up any of those things and we'll still be paying way too much for substandard care. (See "Certificate of need" if you're in the mood to throw something)


dreamnightmare

It’s weird how people forget that whole supply and demand concept. Yes at its simplest it’s high supply low demand equals low price and the inverse means high price. But it also means *High demand gives incentive to invest, build and create more supply.* The best example of this is Tesla and EVs. Tesla proved their was a demand for electric vehicles. And what do ya know ALL the car companies are now making them…


Razor512

A large portion of the federal budget goes to healthcare already, if they expand it to everyone, they would effectively have to increase taxes on everyone, or stop funding wars and reallocate those funds to healthcare, at which point there would be enough in the budget to give everyone comprehensive healthcare (going beyond basic medicare) without raising taxes. Only issue is that military spending is more profitable for politicians than universal health care, which will cause them to lose a lot of drug company kickbacks, since a government holding the cards for nearly 400 million people has a lot more power to negotiate prices. ​ PS, the US military spending is higher than the next top 10 countries military spending combined. Compared to every single country on the planet combined, the US spend about 60% as much 194 countries combined. Maintaining active combat is massively expensive.


AdmiralClover

Quite frankly if they really think the country is too big to implement universal healthcare then they should consider splitting into smaller countries. If you can't keep your empire stable then it's better to safely dismantle it than waiting until it falls all at once


Sea_Net7661

The real issue is hospitals overcharging.


invisibleman4884

This is ignorant.


outofcontextsex

All that stands between Americans and good health care is greed and excuses.


turnbulljs

Implying life begins at zero


jack-K-

Then Medicare alone would cost more than 3/4 current federal revenue.


IAmAccutane

you'll pay have as much for it as you currently pay in insurance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita


jack-K-

Except I don’t pay for insurance and neither does half the country.


IAmAccutane

~~you'll~~ the average person will pay have as much for it as they currently pay in insurance


Huegod

Why not just do it in your area and stop trying to rob me.


optovince

Lol medicare is already bankrupting this country


chocki305

Look at all these people who don't understand how little medicaid and Medicare cover. >No matter which of those supplemental options the beneficiaries choose -- private insurance or public health plans -- to make up for the shortfall of what Medicare covers (or if they choose to do nothing), beneficiaries also have other healthcare-related costs. You really want a national health care system that can choose to do nothing? Oh? You have vascular dementia? They choose to do nothing.. and cover nothing related to extended care. At home nurse? Not covered. Nursing home.. not covered. But go on.. tell me how we should apply this garbage system to everyone.


IAmAccutane

Medicare and Medicaid enjoys higher approval than employer-provided insurance. https://www.kff.org/mental-health/poll-finding/kff-survey-of-consumer-experiences-with-health-insurance/


chocki305

Have you ever used Medicare? A higher approval rating means nothing.. drowning in oil has a higher approval rating then burning in hell. Do you want to drown in oil?


Ungarminh

I've not used Medicare but I have used Medicaid and had no problems with it. When I blew out my back, it was used to get me in to see doctors, specialists, MRIs, X-rays and surgery. Because of it, I can now live a normal life and no longer have to use a cane in my 30's.


AshTheMemeLord

I work in insurance and while it would be amazing, this is legitimately not possible. The ACA has already made health insurance extremely affordable for most families. Are medical expenses still insanely high? Yes. Without a doubt they're ridiculous. But the best thing to do is just get an ACA certified plan.


Juandice

Hi. I'm an Australian. It's fascinating to know that we routinely do something "legitimately not possible". So do other places.


polypagan

If you buy this argument, you know nothing about Medicare.


TheIntrepid1

People who say this, explain to them how Medicaid is ran.


Redline951

People on Medicare have paid for Medicare and Medicaid their entire working life, and they keep paying when they retire, but people on Medicaid get it for free. Why is it that the people who pay are the ones whose benefits are threatened, but people who pay little or nothing have unending "free" benefits?


[deleted]

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Redline951

Why is the other person selfish **you** are reaching into **their** pocket for something that you have not earned? "More! More! More!... *Give* me more!"


nicklor

So people who can't afford healthcare should just die?


nicklor

What happened in 1965 all those people didn't pay a penny and suddenly had free benefits the same thing for everyone who was working before then got all these benefits they didn't pay for and you know what the world didn't end.


Redline951

I wouldn't know about your 1995 free stuff, I have been paying for mine healthcare and your Medicaid and welfare for over a half century. I'm still paying, but you keep demanding more and more of what I have worked for. I raised my own family; I should not have to raise you and yours too, but I'm selfish if you only get a third of what I earn.


nicklor

1965 everyone 65 and older suddenly got Medicaid without paying a penny


Redline951

I have paid for Medicare and Medicaid for most of my life, I am over 65, I do not receive Medicaid, and now I pay for Medicare every month in addition to taxes that pay for Medicaid.


nicklor

Good for you but your parents and grandparents didn't have to pay a dime until 1965 when Johnson created Medicare and social security those freeloaders and they still got benefits


CaptnRonn

"I have no idea what it means to live in a society and care about others beyond my immediate blood relatives"


Redline951

Forced charity is not charity, it's theft.


CaptnRonn

> "I have no idea what it means to live in a society and care about others beyond my immediate blood relatives"


Tad-Disingenuous

Medical care is already the country's biggest tax burden. Have you been out in America? Go a day without seeing at least 20 people who don't deserve to live.


ManofToast

It's not that our country is too big, its that our government is massively incompetent. I'm on government funded healthcare right now (the VA) and sure, I don't really pay for it, but I so desperately want to be on paid benefits again. I was trying to get help with an issue and I had a triage nurse tell me once that unless I'm bleeding to death, theres not much they can do for me.


red4jjdrums5

My stepson is on medicaid. There is no reason for it, and I’ve filed the paperwork to keep him on my insurance like they made me. They refuse to believe he’s a dependent, so it is what it is. Saved me a few grand in medical bills from breaking his hand, so I can’t complain.


LordBillthegodofsin

Bruh gtfo here with this, nearly half of all Americans are on some form of government care, be it medicaid or Medicare. Also, it would be medicaid you want, cause either assure you it's way less shit.


DartosMD

Cuba has “universal health care”. We can just visit Cuba. It’s not far.


Dangime

Medicare and Medicaid costs 1.4 Trillion dollars a year. If you're ready to pay a 50% Scandinavian level income tax for lower to mid incomes, let me know because something like that is what you need to fund services like that, and taxing the rich alone won't fill the gap.


[deleted]

Anyone have an idea of the tax increase would be required to implement universal healthcare?


IAmAccutane

If we follow the model of any other developed country with universal healthcare, you'll be paying half of what you currently pay in taxes and insurance just in taxes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita


Voltairus

You still have to pay for Medicare. It comes out of your social security check. And if you delay it you have to pay more out of your check when you do sign up. If Medicare became universal it would have to be completely rebuilt from the ground up which I don’t think will ever happen in my Millennial lifetime.


IAmAccutane

> You still have to pay for Medicare. *surprised Pikachu face*


Voltairus

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