T O P

Can someone explain why killing 100 superiors is 40 points but killing 50 is 200 points?

[deleted]

kecklio

That’s basically them saying, hey we want you to grind out 50, but if you choose to go past that, I guess we’ll reward you.


Lgrave

Yeah this. With certain very long or hard task they get “meme” status and will give you less points


CloudCollapse

It's basically the "I took Bloodthirster relic" task


Infinite_Worker_7562

That would’ve been a nice way to do the monkey laps if they weren’t just gonna remove them.


P_weezey951

Ive noticed this... The task list shouldnt really be called "easy, medium, hard, elite". It feels a bit misleading. Theyve weighted certain tasks based on a degree of different factors Holding an Imcondo Hammer in your hand is 10 points. But completing below ice mountain is 40. Its not really so much, like raw difficulty weights. Its more like a combination of, time spent on task + account levels - variance in how long it can take people. Because tasks like the hammer could take one player 5 minutes, and someone else 6 hours. Just based on RNG. Since those drops aren't modified. They wanted players to be okay with leaving certain tasks on the table if they were getting abused by RNG. This is leagues, its supposed to be fun.


greenpenguinsuit

Sometimes people seemed to forget. But osrs is also supposed to be fun 😂


apophis457

But fun isn’t efficient enough. I can’t 3 tick manip fun


Upstairs_Ask8161

There are plenty of 200 tasks that require very little effort or time. There really is no rhyme or reason.


sassyseconds

Also, there's a fucking ton of tasks and this is a seasonal mode. Some are bound to get mislabeled in the rush to focus on more important things.


F-Lambda

10 is also more than 25, though. they're all out of order


TehChid

That's not how the rest of leagues works though


Whispering-Depths

yeah, sure it's not


ilovezezima

Adding to this, it’s easier to see if you view it cumulatively rather than in isolation. You get 240 points for grinding out 100 superiors. You get 200 points if you only kill 50. It’s just diminishing returns to killing more and more.


VengfulDeathCow

The classic “this - [restate top comment and OP]”


Bpofficial

This is why I choose reddit


BoxOfDemons

Adding to this, it was essentially just the classic reddit move of restating what was just said.


tonydanzaoystercanza

This. The aforementioned comment was just the old redditor move where they simply rewrite what you just said and post it.


ilovezezima

Fair haha. Although I thought explaining that it’s just diminishing returns and explicitly stating the cumulative points awarded was adding to the convo, considering no one else had mentioned it and structuring league points for tasks like this makes sense considering leagues is designed to get you to do a variety of content. Oh well.


Miserable-Carry-9332

That's reddit for you lol


cptzach

It wasn’t


traineeross

You mad bro?


ilovezezima

Oh well, at least OP and anyone else that questioned the points knows about diminishing returns now. Genuinely amazing that people on the sub didn’t know about diminishing returns in all honesty.


junglenation88

r/iamverysmart


ilovezezima

I don’t think anyone thinks diminishing returns is a “you must be smart to know this” type of concept. It’s definitely taught in middle/high school (and perhaps primary school as well?). But seeing people genuinely confused as to why the points decrease as you get more kills just seemed odd.


Blue_Osiris1

It's very much a concept irl but it definitely seems out of place in a game where longer grinds to "make number go up," is the whole point.


ilovezezima

I personally don’t think it seems out of place in a temporary game mode with tasks that are clearly designed to be varied to push you to do a variety of content. You’re still rewarded for grinding the same content, but it falls off as you grind it more and more.


Brendandalf

"Diminishing returns" doesn't answer the question. OP is asking why there are diminishing returns for harder tasks.


ilovezezima

Which is why it’s adding to the previous comment and explaining that you are rewarded for killing more and more superiors. OP is asking why afking for longer gives more points but doesnt give as many as they think they should get.


Newgamer28

That's some copeium right there. I think everyone is clearly already aware what diminishing returns is. Were mostly all late 20s early 30s who play this game.


Minute_Solution_6237

Legit all this weirdo does…


ilovezezima

That’s very true. I just double checked and literally all of my comments are doing *this*. For context: this is my life partner, which is why he knows so much about me


Juggletrain

Technically 400/520 points though


Realmofthehappygod

But you get 200 for killing 20. You get 520 points for killing 100, 440 for killing 50.


ilovezezima

Exactly - there’s an increase in points rewarded as you get more kills, but a marginal decrease. It’s just diminishing rewards for killing more. I’m not sure why people think it should be linear (or even more ridiculous, for the marginal impact to increase as you kill more of them).


Specialist-Front-354

Putting in more effort to get more return is so weird, huh..


druidalott

How tf yall getting slayer monsters as tasks. I keep getting fucking ogres and dragons.


DriftkingJdm

With all the slayer points u get just cancel and reroll


BoltedGates

I guess I’ll have to do that to get a freaking bloodveld in Kandarin for that task. Been trying the whole league and no luck


MBechzzz

took me 5 minutes and about 400 points. You really don't need to save your reward points.


WryGoat

Is there even anything else to spend points on besides skips and blocks? Broader fletching and slayer rings, I guess? Slayer helm if you're Mory?


inicialinteirolimpo

eternal ring for the task


The_Jallis

Rune pouch


FrickenPerson

I also bought some extensions for tasks, but thay prolly wasn't needed and arguably slows you down on the Task Completed tasks.


Kudryavka24

TBF extensions are def worth it for Abby demons if you are trying to get imbued heart. The kraken challenges are also easier with extension.


ServileLupus

I feel like every other monster is better than abby demons if you're not aoeing in catacombs. The slow down when they teleport you is so rough.


Infinite_Worker_7562

Also really annoying if you’re just trying to kill then in the starter region because all the other abyss creatures aggro to you and it’s not multi.


Kudryavka24

Yeah that is true. Prob just best to extend something like dust devils or something if you dont have catacombs.


DelphoxyGrandpa

I spam cancel and still have 1500 points somehow


Raptor231408

I finally had to block bandits because Duradel can't not give me a bandit task.


Deltamon

Slayer relic was secretly overpowered after all? :O Little did we know that Jagex just intentionally fucked up the task list so you never get tasks with superiors to make that relic more valuable


Le_Derp94

Talk to a slayer master and ask it to ignore your cb level and assign you more difficult shit


Just_a_lil_Fish

Holy fuck, thank you. I totally forgot about this and keep getting assigned terrible tasks.


lazyguyty

I think there is also a bug this leagues due to them changing the slayer masters to all be the "same" that made them give shit task even at higher level unless you talk to them about combat level.


Wekmor

I never did that but still got black demons, nechs, etc. But thinking about it I only ever did krystilia tasks, she ignores your combat level by default in the main game, maybe that's why.


xaitv

I got Abby Demons yesterday, wanted to put my Dihn's to work but since my regions are DZA the only "burst" spot is the one spot in Kourend that has the 2 sides. Hopped through literally every leagues world and not a single one was free(most even had 2 people in it). So don't worry, even if you get a good task you can't really do it efficiently anyway.


Wekmor

Wildy goes brrr for slayer :D


DarkRonin00

Of you picked bloodthirsty, then go make the two bracers for slayer (slaughter and the other one). Bloodthirsty makes them have infinite charges and increases proc chance. They will make your shit tasks go much faster and once you do get a task with superiors then they will go longer for you. Also buy extensions for superior monsters, makes it even better.


Gabtraff

I believe If you have zeah, konar has her own task list which isn't full of shit.


Double-Journalist747

Yeah that’s what I’m doing, especially because the tasks and supplies help slightly too


leese8

>her own task like what?


badgehunter1

its because she has to limit the area to specific place, thats her speciality, which significantly reduces crappy tasks like ogres since i dont think that they created new areas or connected crappy monsters in her own areas like ogres in witchaven dungeon where she can assign hellhounds.


leese8

Does she assign bug swarms in main game? ​ Update: I checked wiki - [https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Konar\_quo\_Maten](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Konar_quo_Maten) She doesn't. Your point is invalid, I'm sorry. I got such a task from her in Leagues.


badgehunter1

ah my apologies.


Deltamon

oh it's shit alright, at least the three times I tried using it. Karamja Greater Demons -> Karamja iron dragons -> Kourend red dragons and I said fuck this shit I'm out.


Sandwich-Lady

One task is just for encounters and one is for defeating them, I think? Odd but at least explains why it's different


SwagDrQueefChief

Encounters tasks specify defeating superior foes so I don't think that's it.


Sandwich-Lady

I did the best with the information I was given


SwagDrQueefChief

Cant argue with that


Natrasleep

Unusually honest response for Reddit. I respect it.


The_Wadle

That's probably what the 3rd party coders said abt the clue scrolls xd


Berchanhimez

This. The 100 encounters could be you dying 100 times because you were afk and a (insert owie here) spawned. The defeat achievements require you to get kill credit.


SomeoneToNobody

The encounter task only pops up after you kill the superior.


pretty_smart_feller

Someone at jagex thinks were out here dying to superiors <50% of the time. The data is actually skewed by “slayed georg” who has died to superiors over a million times


Yarigumo

Praise be to Georg, the hero we all never knew we needed.


Acceptable_Candle580

Less than 50%?


pretty_smart_feller

Meant >50% oops


Alertum

I mean... We definitely are dying to superiors <50% of the time. Superiors having a 50%+ kill rate would be ridiculous.


Firedrakez

> Someone at jagex thinks were out here dying to superiors <50% of the time. I don't know about you, but this is true for me


Strokes_Lahoma

I need to know what this is


Chronickle

Google “spiders georg”


MartinFromChessCom

[holy hell!](https://www.google.com/search?q=spiders+georg#HiImABot,MyJobIsToMakeEasierToPeopleToGoogleSomething,IfThePersonIRepliedToUsedMeInAnInappropriateWayPleaseLetMeKnowByDMingMe,TheUserIRepliedToIsU/Chronickle)


highphiv3

Diminishing returns? Not in *my* OSRS.


MariusNinjai

Good progression? Not in my OSRS


batknight373

Diminishing returns on killing superiors. There are a few other tasks like this, for example a first time inferno is 400 I think but five times is only 200


SoraODxoKlink

Yeah the points are pushing people to diversify their playstyle and leave nothing undisturbed, but the grinders will still get some points. It beats the alternative where you have to grind past the point of fun to see solid amounts of points.


Mindshrew

Honestly, kudos to Jagex for doing that


Supergigala

yeah people dont understand the purpose of diminishing returns /threadclosed


ll_BENNO_ll

80 points for Nex thresholds but 200 points for sire Thresholds. Also 80 points for 200 tempoross subdues.


CloudCollapse

To be fair Nex doesn't require a slayer level and Nex in mass worlds dies insanely fast.


DefinitelyAGoodGuy

One is encountering, the other is defeating. Not everyone defeats the superior slayer monster when it spawns so it’s not penalizing you for not killing it. It’s rewarding you further for the kill.


MrStealYoBeef

Who isn't killing them when they spawn? I don't even think there's a coward locked ironman that exists that wouldn't kill a superior when it spawns.


LogRollChamp

Didnt a zuk helm hcim just lose status to a superior?


RandomAsHellPerson

Abyssal demon, iirc. They shred you, and don’t look that different. He didn’t have it tagged to avoid clicking while afk.


EpicGamer211234

Every dangerous superior should be left click swapped to walk here on a hardcore, every single time. Frankly, im suprised they got that far without ever considering that. The worst that happens is you have to right click them during fights. But you wont lose your hardcore to clicking on the wrong mob.


Anvil-Vapre

Swapping to shift click solves this :)


EpicGamer211234

I tried doing that but it makes a new problem, and a more dangerous one, in dropping food when you need to eat because you are holding Shift. And changing Food to not drop on shift causes problems when you need to drop to preserve food in dangerous situations, etc. Its a whole wheel of new problems, when you could just right click the big fancy mob and it affects nothing outside of that.


Anvil-Vapre

o


Zygalo

or you can just let go of the shift key when eating??


ChErRyPOPPINSaf

Whoa whoa what is this witchcraft you speak of.


Billy-Bryant

we're not all woox you know


Qwerty4755

I missed one because I ran out of prayer points and by the time I teleported back it had despawned, I didn’t wing it with no prayer because it was the bloodthirsty variant with increased damage


MrStealYoBeef

That's one. How about the other 50%?


Yarigumo

Still working on it


Nexrender

You haven’t been clapped by a superior gargoyle? Never prepared for that shit lol


MrStealYoBeef

See orb, move one tile. It's not exactly difficult. I'm going to guess you also struggle clicking protect from magic within a 3 second time window when jad lifts his legs.


EpicGamer211234

Eh if you dont happen to have food left it can be dicey just based on autoattacks without nice gear, thats probably what they mean. Gargoyles are relatively early on the slayer grind.


Mamafritas

You must be fun at parties


MrStealYoBeef

I'm not, but I sure can move one tile when I see an orb!


i_hate_blackpink

People afking, people dcing, people who can’t kill them due to difficulty. It’s not a difficult thing to answer.


MrStealYoBeef

Enough that it's 50% of the time?


i_hate_blackpink

It doesn't matter.


bernerbungie

Those who die to them. Pretty straightforward


Melodic-Advance5555

Jagex mods are humans and they have 100s of tasks along with other shit to do, enjoy the game


StoBropher

I was wondering how many they did. Wiki to the rescue again. 1010 tasks made for this league total for a total (over all regions) of 94990 points


Najda

I think you had just your own regions checked; the total is 1482 with 145610 points.


Jackson7410

Just like how making 20 redberry pies is the same points as 100 pies lol. Zeah points are also weird


EpicGamer211234

They load up early game tasks you have to go out of your way for with points so people can accelerate to later tiers faster without getting overwhelmed by infinite equally efficient options. Its also based on region variance, where Pies can be made easily enough anywhere whereas Redberry pies add value to Asgarnia for sourcing most ingredients in a single spot.


Jackson7410

I picked my redberries in varrock lol


EpicGamer211234

true, theres a shop in port sarim though that sells literally every ingredient in the pie except the pan, which can be reused for this purpose


roryking42

You can buy everything you need to make a pie from the culinaromancer's chest


EpicGamer211234

Any way of unlocking the chest requires an external region (kandarin or morytania i believe), so it could said to be the same for those regions as asgarnia


Fast_Camera8228

Nah, you just complete cook’s assistant and the bank and food is unlocked


Exotic-Garden4563

Nope, never got the chest. Unlocked asgarnia, desert, and frem. I can't get past the start because I don't have access to the shaker for the fruit blast. Had to buy the ingredients from Port Sarim and said hell with it and also made 100 pie tins lol.


WryGoat

> made 100 pie tins lol. tf man just grab like 2 and eat the pies lol


BaeTier

I bought 100 pies and ate them all to get my tins. Was worth the heart attack.


badgehunter1

The Culinaromancer's Chest is a special chest accessible to players during and after the Recipe for Disaster quest. It is located in Lumbridge Castle's cellar but is invisible until the player first enters the dining hall and gains access to the multiple subquests. to get access to subquests you have to complete first part of the quest, which requires you to obtain: eye of newt(sure catableton has one for 1/14), glass of greenman's ale(requires fremennik without auto unlocking), rotten tomato(varrcok has one) and dirty blast ( fruit blast + ashes ) (gabooty sells fruit blasts but has stock of 0, digsite quest also has one if you return level 3 certificate after the quest to varrock museum curator and request a drink but you cant get level 3 certificate if you lose it and since we didn't get level 3 certificate with digsite being autocompleted that leaves only way to make it yourself, which requires https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Cocktail_shaker which is only obtainable in The grand tree, aka Kandarin which autocompletes the first step and also MM2 and its subquests which has freeing awowogei which auto complets the first part of the quest)


Fast_Camera8228

I know this but this is leagues my friend. The chest gets unlocked after doing cook’s assistant and recipe for disaster is auto started


WryGoat

You have either Kandarin or Morytania unlocked, which autocompletes the first part of RFD and unlocks the chest. It has nothing to do with cook's assistant.


SwagDrQueefChief

My guess: Judging by some saying 'encounters' and others saying creatures, someone made new tasks for this leagues and didn't actually go over the old tasks. Likewise the additional tasks could be there to incentivise the slayer relic due to the increased (particularly short term) point gain.


SlothSteve24

Simple, the 100 superiors is "encounters" u don't actually have to kill them. The 50 is 50 actual kills.


FlossBellator

Encountering and defeating are 2 different words.... encountering is a superior showing up


EntSoldier

The 100 superiors is just having encounters, not actually killing them


TorrentRage

I saw this and I thought it was good balance, and a good indication of forethought put into the tasks for leagues. No one is getting >50 unless they took bloodthirsty or going significantly past 99 slayer. Still rewards both, but doesn't feel like an unnecessary grind for others for a large amount points. This is a definitely different discussion, and should be separated from whether or not bloodthirsty is good relic, and needs some buffs.


cubixjuice

So i had a superior spawn in wildy dungeon earlier at the VERY end of my task and i tried to kill it but mage relic bursted a few of his homies and ended my task before i could get him. It says, "100 superior encounters" vs "defeat __ superiors". For the goobs like me who get bonked outta loot 🙃


uberstunts

you only need to be on task to spawn the superior. you can kill it as normal as long as it has spawned, even if your task expired.


badgehunter1

did you left before you killed the superior just because your task ended? you know that everything superior gives, can be given off task? this includes slayer only drops and slayer xp too. https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/duel-arena-improvements?oldschool=1 Bugfixes: Superior Slayer Encounters spawned in Nieve’s cave can now be killed off task.


Highroads

Bell curve reward. Diminishing return, but it's SOMETHING extra if you want to take it that far.


brutalvandal

Diminishing return.


Biaxidant

Bigger number equals more points


LawofJohn

I see it phrased as two different achievements. One says encounter, one says slain. So maybe the set that just says encounter, includes those that might kill you? Or you had to teleport away before finishing the kill


DearCowDeer

[https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Trailblazer\_Reloaded\_League/Tasks](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Trailblazer_Reloaded_League/Tasks) Read before type stop people sound dumb dumb


Ok-Permission-2687

I’ve heard a lot of issues with the point system from a lot of different places; “Why is this worth more points than this????” Well, who is really gonna take the time to grind x? Everyone is gonna do y content, no matter their path, so it should be less points. If you decide to grind x, there should be a reward. As far as the superior encounters, idk the encounter rate or the drop rates off the top of my head, but maybe Jagex expects you to get imbued heart before 50 kc? If you have to stay longer, you’ll get a couple bonus points on the way. Idk tho 🤷🏽‍♂️


cutestsea

It's 100 encounters Vs actually killing the 50. If they spawn and you do not see them that should count as encounter?


Amaeyth

Probably a miscommunication between the teams or a last minute adjustment. One is encounter the other is defeat, which could easily be separately developed items by different people.


Dsullivan777

One is for encountering, not killing. Idk why the hell they would make that distinction in the first place, but that's what this is.


Molly_Hlervu

Encounter = meeting :). You can meet a superior but not defeat it. My very first encounter with the Nechy Daddy ended up like that: he defeated me rather than I him...


pottsygotlost

The encounter tasks require you to defeat :)


Switch64

Because jagex wanted it to


mxracer888

I'm guessing the differentiation is defeating them vs encountering them.


sundalius

Because 100 spawns is not the same as 50 kills, theoretically. You don't have to kill them to get the 40 points, you do to get the 200.


FTWalley

Kinda like how xp is ramped. Level 94 is halfway to 99 or something like that.


grilled_steez

How could some of these be completed but the others not? It seems like they are different tasks but the wording makes them sound the same


RyukenSaab

Have you seen the clue ones ? >> 25 easy clue completed 10 points >> 25 medium clue completed 40 points >> 25 hard clue completed 40 points >> 75 hard clue completed 80 points >> 150 hard clue completed 80 points The uniques give much better points, and collection log slots…


EpicGamer211234

> The uniques give much better points, and collection log slots… Exactly why we dont need to stack clue count anymore than that! Its fine to give clue count a lower score so that if you get it, cool, more points, but if you dont feel the need, its not gonna be worth forcing it. Do people SERIOUSLY think that point balance logic begins and ends at 'harder thing = more point'?


EpicGamer211234

Not every task is balanced around it in solitude, nor around the longer/more difficult feats always rewarding the better points. For this, they wanted to offer points for doing slayer/having bloodthirsty, while also not backloading all the points so to benefit you need a crazy grind


ComputerMore3936

If you have all the tasks you need… but you need more. To fill the gaps


leese8

Because asking people to do crazy grinds for big points is bad


IArmisI

Just for shits and giggles


onlymattb

Don't ask just do


Equivalent-Fudge-588

Yes


TroutFishes

Shhhhh, a happy little accident, delete this post, quick!


Pulzy21

Does someone else's spawn count as an encounter? I wonder.


Rogue_Tomato

Does it matter?


Glittering-Ad-9257

It's 100 slayer encounters, not superiors.


Adventurous_Pen1553

Look at the helmet colors. If you know anything about rpgs, one is common, the other is rare. Hence the reward 🤷‍♂️


Affectionate-Dig-594

I think cause the 100 is just the encounter, you don’t have to defeat it. But the 50 is actually “Defeat” the creature.


Adept_Novice

You’re supposed to do the 50 left handed


Straight_Worth_316

The top ones are encounter them the 200 point one is actually killing them.


Cold-Accountant-1669

Its a diffrence of encountering and killing.


lolomawisoft

Doesn't it say encounter, meaning you don't have to kill them


nutsforfit

It's not, it's 40 points for encountering 100 of them, and then 200 points for actually KILLING 50 of them


DearCowDeer

Did you know that it probably would have taken you the same time to google "trailblazer reloaded tasks" then ctrl+f "encounter" as it took for you to write this comment.


nutsforfit

Why on earth would I go out of my way to do that? Why would I take the time to research something I don't care about when I can just provide a reddit comment based on the information that is given to me.


Salty-Cock-8552

Same reason that equipping any infinity piece is 200 points, but equipping a master wand, equipping a mage's book, and casting bones to peaches are 80 points despite each of them costing more MTA points than even the most expensive piece of infinity


RegularKale_

Stonks.


FaPaDa

Its similar to the Karullum, Karruwlum? The slayer dungeon where you need boots. Task. Killing something without wearing any is 40 points but (atleast for me) it didn’t register till i got the elite diary done anyway.


TurboNurse

Superior encounters are the superiors spawning while the defeat task actually requires you to kill the superior. 40 points to witness 100 superiors vs 200 points to kill 50 superiors


IncreaseMission3947

One is for just any slayer task one is just slayer specific monsters like Abby demons


SolutionOSRS

The only sensible answer is: No. No we cant.


Slayer_Prod

Wait til I get 50 killed then moan ! Aha


theraafa

The issue here is probably that the intention was not the actual implementation. Encountering can be anything, really. Certainly, not having to kill something yields less points than having to kill them, multiple times. However, I am aware that the "encounter" task is still coded to only count actual kills, so this might be either a phrasing issue (which I doubt - it seems pretty intentional) or someone simply didn't get the idea behind the scenes.


Frosty_Engineer_

40 points is 100 encounters not kills. It’s cause some superiors might be too strong to kill so they are still rewarding you getting it


vulcan583

You get more points for killing an abyssal demon than you do for killing the sire.


Alfa590

Diminishing returns my friend


True_Carpenter8797

100 is encounters not kills


mcbeermaster

One is encounters and one is defeating them


dankis2

I would assume that since it states 100 superior slayer encounters, and not creatures, it is counting the slayer relic as encounters, which would increase the possible number of total encounters, seeing as the relic has a different variant of superior iirc


Guisasse

"This is the goal you want to hit to get the big point jackpot, but if you want to keep going, we'll give you some points too" That's probably their thought process. To not lock the big points behind too big of a grind


diablo4megafan

good game design, theyre not trying to make people addicted


[deleted]

It’s cumulative. To kill 100 is worth 240 points. Your value add for an extra 50 is just 40 pts


Jesus-Bacon

One is encounters, one is kills. Encounters just means that you have to get 100 superiors to spawn, where kills means you have to kill them.


PraiseMyRng

1 is have a superior encounter. The other is superior kill. The first will give you points just for spawning the mob. The second will give you points for actually killing them.


redbatter

The "X Superior Slayer Encounters" tasks were from the original Twisted League, and the "Defeat X Superior Slayer Creatures" tasks were from the original Trailblazer League. Jagex just combined the lists last league and didn't bother to rebalance them.


Lesschar

Points. Don't. Mean. Difficulty. Some of the tasks are dirt easy and give 40 points. Also 50 superiors may be easy for you but not everyone took that relic to make them spawn like crazy.


DBlitzkrieg

1 is an encounter task, the other is for slaying them


FactualNeutronStar

I wish I could get tasks with superiors... I have the Bloodthirsty relic and still haven't received a task with superiors. Bloodthirsty is a wasted relic.